[Old_Dude]

Hello - no, I'm not going to go back and dig up all the threads and spend an hour reading through all the information.

My questions are few and rather simple - please continue.

Point #1 - I have some good, mechanical experience - replaced the head on my Honda, replaced all components on my bike (except headset).

Point #2 - I have a fear of ruining my frame - not only when I remove the current headset, but also when I install the new one - given my past experience wrenching on cars & bikes, is this justified - is it that difficult to properly remove & reinstall a new headset?

Fact #3 - Tools - I am confident I can make a decent home-made headset press (see Tonninator's photo below), but can I make a good, usable tool to remove the current headset? If so, how?

Thanks very much,

OD

 

[Repack]

Headset swaps are over rated. I've used drift pins to get old cups out and a vise w/ a couple of 1/4" pieces of plywood to keep the cups from getting scratched to get a hs in (I have done hundreds the "correct" way so I do know what I am doing).
When you remove it, just tap your way around the cup with a drift pin. Or you could maybe get a piece of pipe, make 4 cuts in it and flair it.

Weather you are installing or removing, the main thing you need to be careful of is keeping the cups straight. Both are fairly slow processes, and if things go crooked, a little side pressure will line them back up.

The pic of the home made press is nice. I like using thin pieces of wood to actually press against the cups (1/4x2x2" plywood pieces). The cup press into the wood a little so nothing slips.

 

[Old_Dude]

Okay - I'm gonna go for it!!!

Will I still have to go by the bike shop and get a star nut and some spacers?

I guess there's no way to successfully remove the old star nut? I think I'm okay on spacers.

How much room should remain between the stem and the steering tube cap? I'm guessing just a wee bit - like 1/32 inch?

Is it critical that the steering tube cap is even installed?

Is there an alternative to installing a steering tube cap, bolt & star nut?

Thanks,

OD

 

[Repack]

Originally posted by Old_Dude
Okay - I'm gonna go for it!!!
Will I still have to go by the bike shop and get a star nut and some spacers?
I guess there's no way to successfully remove the old star nut? I think I'm okay on spacers.
How much room should remain between the stem and the steering tube cap? I'm guessing just a wee bit - like 1/32 inch?
Is it critical that the steering tube cap is even installed?
Is there an alternative to installing a steering tube cap, bolt & star nut?
Thanks,
OD

You will need a new star nut, or a headlock. The headlock is basicly a through-bolt that works best on dualcrown forks. Locks and star nuts both serve to adjust the bearing pressure when the stem bolts are lose. Once you adjust the star bolt, you tighten the stem bolts and they keep everything tight. The number of spacers is determined by how high you want the stem. Longer steerer tube = more spacers.
I usually leave a ~5mm gap between the top of the steerer tub and the top of the stem or spacers. Remember that there is nothing stopping you from lowering the stem by putting spacers on top of the stem. You just want to make sure that the lip under the cap doesn't bottom on the steerer before everything is tight.

And grease the cups when you put them in. Don't forget that most crown races are not interchangable. There a bunch of threads on how to change them.

 

[Old_Dude]

Just got back from the hardware store . . . here's a 5/8 inch rod with nuts & washers . . . I bought a 1 foot long piece of the 1" pvc pipe (the bottom-right corner of photo) . . . total bill was $5.23 . . . now to do the deed . . .

 

[Old_Dude]

oops . . . forgot the pic . . .

 

[Old_Dude]

You just want to make sure that the lip under the cap doesn't bottom on the steerer before everything is tight.

HOLY COW!!! I honestly had NO IDEA that's how it worked - thanks very much!

Currently, my fork is being held on only by the stem and there's about a 1/16" gap between the top of the stem and the bottom of the cap . . . what an idiot!!!

THANKS - now I can see how it's okay to deviate somewhat when cutting the steering tube - now it all makes sense!

 

[Wumpus]

The top cap is just for cinching everything up. You don't want to crank on the top cap--use about as much force as you use to tighten the lid on a plastic soda bottle.

The stem bolts are what secures everything.



Can't tell from your picture, but you might want to have something soft like rubber or leather at the actual contact point between the washers and headset cups.

 

[Old_Dude]

The top cap is just for cinching everything up. You don't want to crank on the top cap--use about as much force as you use to tighten the lid on a plastic soda bottle.

The stem bolts are what secures everything.

Thanks - that helps explain even better.

Can't tell from your picture, but you might want to have something soft like rubber or leather at the actual contact point between the washers and headset cups.

I was going to use like 1/4" plywood between the washers and the cups. Izzat okay?

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On another note - I went to the bike shop & they charged me $2.50 for a stupid star nut! I thought they'd cost about a dollar or something, so I only bought one. Also, I asked for some spacers and the lady brought out a bag of them and said they were $2.00 each. I thought to myself - this is the first time I've ever been in this shop & it'll definitely be the last time I ever come in here too.

I really wish I would've had them remove my cups because I'm stuck - I can't get the old ones out. My PVC pipe trick didn't work at all - just split up into pieces. Maybe I didn't do it right?

Guess I'll either have to order a tool and pay for shipping or take it 25 miles up the road & have another, more reputable (hopefully) bike shop do it for me.

Unless - anyone has a useful alternative to getting a cup removal tool?

Thanks,

OD

 

[fonseca]

$2.50 isn't bad at all for a star nut from a shop. I've been charged $5 before. $2 per spacer is standard too, consider that a good price for an LBS.

I've used plywood between the washers before, but I prefer a rubber washer instead, which makes it easier to correct misaligned cups as you press them in (always press one cup at a time).

Your PVC probably split because you didn't drill holes for stress relief at the top of each split. Ya gots to do dat. However, I recommend you take a flat blade screwdriver, put a few pieces of tape over the tip, and gently tap the cup out, working around the inside edge, not just one spot.

 

[Old_Dude]

fonseca,

thanks very much for your response - I guess I'm just not very aware of what normal prices should be for items like that from a bike shop.

I am happy to be wrong about their pricing - I'll consider going back to their shop again. It's still difficult for me to go to a shop like that because they only had 3 mtnbikes that were above the $420 range and the only person in the store had no clue what I was talking about and she immediately assumed I knew nothing about bikes.

I can understand it though - not many people in this area understand anything about bike quality - $99 department store bikes are the "norm", thus if I had a bike shop here, to have a chance at being profitable, I'd probably sell 20 or 30 "low end" bikes ($350-500 range) for every mid range bike sold, so, I can understand the reasoning behind the items on the sales floor.

I miss living outside Atlanta where we had many bike shops that were chock-full of gorgeous, high quality machines, and often there were sales people & sometimes even a mechanic now and then who actually knew what was going on.

I'll try your method of gently tapping out the cups with a tape-wrapped screwdriver as you suggested - thanks.



In regard to your signature . . . oh, nevermind.

 

[Old_Dude]

I very briefly tried using a screwdriver and didn't like it . . . fumbled around in my tool boxes and found this combination file worked fantastic - it made contact with 2 sides of the cup about 120 degrees apart and worked great - really didn't have to tap that hard to get them out.

 

[Old_Dude]

It was a real pain getting this ring thing onto the fork . . . but, it's done . . . now to install the cups . . .

 

[fonseca]

Originally posted by Old_Dude
... the only person in the store had no clue what I was talking about and she immediately assumed I knew nothing about bikes.

That's one reason I don't often go to shops; the attitude of the employees/owner. I would actually be willing to pay grossly inflated prices for parts and maintenance if the shop was friendly and knowledgeable, but that just isn't the case at shops near me.

You just saved yourself $10 by getting those cups out yourself. A shop in my area would charge $40 or more to remove an old headset and install a new one on a fully-assembled bike.

For the cup, if it starts to go in crooked I loosen the press and compensate for the angle by moving the washer stack towards the high side of the cup. I sometimes have to repeat that step to keep it straight. Good luck.

Originally posted by Old_Dude
In regard to your signature . . . oh, nevermind.

LOL! Hope you don't mind, that thread was awesome and your comment inspirational. Consider it a tribute.

 

[Kornphlake]

You know how to get the lower race on the crown right??? I use a piece of aluminum stock I bored a 1.150 in and added a knurl to the outside so it'd look cool. You could find a piece of metal pipe that has roughly a 1.125 ID then slide it over the steer tube and use the weight of the pipe to tap the race down onto the crown.

I usually wouldn't reccomend pounding on anything with a file. They are made of hardened steel which can be extremely brittle and shatters like glass if you're not careful. Next time you may consider using some other cheap tool that isn't hardened steel.

 

[Repack]

To press on a crown race, I drilled a 1.125" hole through a 2x4, then clamped it in a vise. I hammered the fork down into it. Don't forget to grease it or it might rust on.

And about the negative shock comments, we used to get yelled at at the store where I worked for giving out too many HS spacers. Its not that the store want to sell the stuff for a lot, but spacers cost the store a lot. The GM would beg us to at least sell them for $0 so that the inventory stayed somwehat correct and we knew when to order more. And there is no law that says you have to take a part to a shop to get it fixed and not research it and do the work yourself.

I'm glad that it looks like things worked out.

 

[Old_Dude]

Next time you may consider using some other cheap tool that isn't hardened steel.

Thanks - great advice. I was "tapping" on the file - not banging - still, I appreciate the tip and will hopefully remember to use an alternative method next time.

Don't forget to grease it or it might rust on.

Oops! (embarrased emoticon goes here) Maybe it won't be too bad because the crown race is stainless steel.

Who am I kidding - it'll be there forever.

Anyway, this afternoon I tossed everything together and I ditched the home-made press and used a block of wood & hammer instead - I felt like the block of wood & carefully tapping them in gave me the most control and everything worked great - cups in, crown race on, steering tube cut - done! I held the back of the bike frame with a bungee cord while the bottom of the headtube rested flat on the workbench - directly above the bench leg. Flipped the frame to install the bottom cup. What a piece of cake.

I just got through doing about 15 miles on it and it's fantastic! The front of the bike is noticeably lighter. I rode with a group and we did mostly fire roads and pretty easy stuff. One sort of bumpy downhill was phenomenal - I just held on and flew down, passing 3 of the people in our group. Pansies!

Totally rigid is totally cool. I'll weigh the bike later tonight and see what's going on.

I only encountered two "problems" with this fork:
1 - on a very slow, technical portion of the trail, I went sort of deep into a hole and the bike sort of flew in & out of the hole rather quickly - almost catching me off guard
2- on a flat portion of trail, right after a fast downhill, I had one hand on the bar with not much grip and hit a series of rocks and this jolted my hand and made me sort of freak for a half-second

Neither 1 or 2 was really a problem - I didn't loose control or crash. I can't wait to get into some serioius, steep singletrack and see how it climbs. Should be fun!!!

Thanks to everyone for your help! Another successful mechanical project.

 

[Kornphlake]

ridgid's are fun, I ended up riding my 93 diamondback sorrento for about a month last summer when I was waiting on parts and while I hated the geometry of the frame it was quite refreshing to blast past guys on FS bikes and keep going fast enough they couldn't catch up. I think the key to keeping in control in situations like you mentioned is just to remember that ridgid forks are stif, they won't flex around like a suspension fork does so you have to loosen your grip on the bars and let the wheel move around a little bit. That and keep your weight back so if you do get hung up you don't endo too hard.

 

[dwnwrd]

Dumb question. I just got a new fork and I'd just as soon leave the race on the old one and get a new race for the new fork rather than mess with taking the old one off.

Does the race normally come with the headset and/or can you pickup a crown race at the LBS? I have a King headset.

 

[Dirty]

unless youre planning on switching out the forks often you might as well just take off the old one...the crown race is a fairly simple thing to remove/install. but it isnt something that youd want to be doing a lot...

you can pick up a new race for a king headset. probly run you like $10 though....