[cesar_rojo]

Hi guys!

So I am planning on start to build my 2011 ride. The frame I only have one option, so not much to do there... It will be a very very special aluminium frame

After almost all 2010 recovering from a broken wrist (only raced the last national champ race here in Spain) I just got bolts and plate off my hand so will be ready to start trainning in a few months from now so have a few months to pick all the material... As someone will pay for it will be no money limit on material (lucky me).

I will race this bike in all spanish national races and hopefully if I get some UCI points will go race WC's... So you get an idea where the bike will be riden.

The most important point to me is lightness, I want a really light bike, but that you are able to ride on world cup level without destroying it every run. So wheelset is quite important. Also handlebar and brakes, always run 200mm.

Suspension is also important, fork there is not much option to stay light boxxer or a boxxer, but shock is various options, tunned RC4, cane creek?

The goal is to build a sub 33lbs (15kg) bike with 2.5" tires and tubes on it, no way to race on tubeless.

My first thought was
Frame: Surprise
Fork: boxxer wc 2550gr
Shock: RC4 440gr
Spring: progressive 300lbs 270gr
Handlebar: havoc dh carbon 235gr
Sprocket: Custom XTR 7speed 106gr
Stem: Prototype one i have 95gr
Cranks: XTR 623gr
Brakes: Formula The one 416gr
Rotors: 200mm front+rear 324gr
Brake adapters: formula 43gr
Wheelset front: Dee max ultimate 909gr
Wheelset rear: Dee max ultimate 1048gr
Derrailleur: XTR with Saint cage 179gr
Shifter: XTR 103gr
Seat clamp: 15gr
Chainguide: MRP mini G2 32-36T: 171gr
Ring: e13 36T 44gr
Head set: FSA bearings + cap and bolts 56gr
Chain: KMC 229gr
Seat post: Easton EC90 160gr
Seat: Selle italia 135gr
Grips: Odi ruffian 108gr
Tires + tubes: Minion Fr 2.5" 3098gr
Cables: 60gr
Various bolts: 57gr
Pedals: Mallet 395gr


So let me know what you will change, where you think I can take some weight and other ideas... Like this bike should be under 33lbs without much problems...

Cheers!

 

[Damo]

I haven't heard anything good about the Surprise frames. I'd change that...

Otherwise...

 

[EVIL JN]

Vivid air maybe?

On another note i have a question about the Foxy frame. Is the headtube a tapered ZS44 to ZS56 or ZS49

 

[Christiaan]

boxxer is 2760 grams, isn't it?

 

[trib]

why no way to race on tubeless? I thought most of the top pros where now tubeless, or am I wrong here?

 

[quickneonrt]

why no way to race on tubeless? I thought most of the top pros where now tubeless, or am I wrong here?

there was a poll done this year in one of the magazines, i forget which one but only 5% of the pros use tubeless

 

[mattmatt86]

boxxer is 2760 grams, isn't it?

You obviously haven't heard about the helium upgrade.

 

[monkeyfcuker]

Needs a photo to spark interest

 

[JCL]

I really can't see how you'll save further weight without remaking parts in CF or milling material off components.

Maybe a Minion EXO on the front?

Looking forward to a pic of the frame too.

 

[cesar_rojo]

I haven't heard anything good about the Surprise frames. I'd change that...

Otherwise...

Don't have the frame yet, hope to get it in 2months or so... Just want to order the parts for it

Vivid air maybe?

On another note i have a question about the Foxy frame. Is the headtube a tapered ZS44 to ZS56 or ZS49

I'll check that out can't remember now, sorry. Tried the vivid air, but is not worth i think for the small weight difference... Air has a problem with mid stroke, where the bike feels too soft.

boxxer is 2760 grams, isn't it?

2693gr from sicklines web, so if you add the cut to the steering and use the team cartridge voila 2550gr. Run it like that now, the other cartridge, at least the first one was to harsh on my arms

frame weight should be under 6lbs, but we'll see when getting it

 

[Pelle]

XTR trail pedals maybe.
Easton wheels?

 

[gemini2k]

Crank brothers pedals? Seriously? Try Shimano or Time.

 

[worship_mud]

do you have a pic of the xtr/saint frankenreilleur?
i have nothing more to add, your list seems pretty perfect.

 

[norbar]

Morgaw guys have carbon seats with some strange tech in them (or so they claim). My friend has had their dh seat for 1.5 season and it still holds so it may be an option for you.
Weight is 88g (claimed).

For seatpost - KCNC Ti pro lite is lighter than easton.

Casette - would it be possible to turn a 10 speed Token casette into 7 speed? As their 10 speed is 110g!
Their seatclamp is also a bit lighter(8.4g)



Though it's all small changes so I'm not sure if it will really be an upgrade over what you've chosen. Good to hear that you are healing up. Get well and start riding soon. Good luck on the races and I hope we will see your new frame soon

 

[freakrock]

For seatpost - KCNC Ti pro lite is lighter than easton.

That seatpost scares the hell out of my unborn children. I wouldn't even use it for XC.
Do you know of someone actually using it for DH? I'm really curious.

 

[norbar]

That seatpost scares the hell out of my unborn children. I wouldn't even use it for XC.
Do you know of someone actually using it for DH? I'm really curious.

Few people around here. Kids though. A couple of my friends planned getting one. Need to bug them about it.

 

[TheTruth]

Crank brothers pedals? Seriously? Try Shimano or Time.

Yeah seriously. Those pedals are practically disposable. The New XTR trail pedals are a lighter version of the 810's.

Also, I have never been so sure about the whole xtr cranks on DH bikes thing.

 

[yd35]

How about Edge carbon rims?

 

[Uncle Cliffy]

Yeah seriously. Those pedals are practically disposable. The New XTR trail pedals are a lighter version of the 810's.

You mean the M647's right?

They're far from light, but super solid. My favorite SPD. The XTR Trails aren't really a "lighter version," as the cage is alloy and doesn't pivot around the axle like the 647's.

Cesar, if you don't post a pic of that frame just for the sake of it, I will...

 

[Udi]

Hi Cesar -

It's hard to give suggestions to a bike guru, but I have one thing you might have not considered. You can run a 2.5" stroke Ti spring @ 199g to save some weight. That is how much a DSP 300 x 2.5" spring weighs, and the actual stroke of the spring is around 3.5" so it will not coil bind. I have been doing this for many years and have not yet had a spring fail, so It might be a good way to save 70g with no performance sacrifice.

Udi

 

[Santa Maria]

Don't have the frame yet, hope to get it in 2months or so... Just want to order the parts for it


I'll check that out can't remember now, sorry. Tried the vivid air, but is not worth i think for the small weight difference... Air has a problem with mid stroke, where the bike feels too soft.


2693gr from sicklines web, so if you add the cut to the steering and use the team cartridge voila 2550gr. Run it like that now, the other cartridge, at least the first one was to harsh on my arms

frame weight should be under 6lbs, but we'll see when getting it

cesar, with a 15kg dh rig you have to ride up to the start over here in Austria

what exactly do you mean with team cartridge, is this some blackbox stuff??

 

[Eastern States Cup]

gamut p30 guide and gamut ring
ccdb with ti spring
180 amd 165 formula rotors

 

[William42]

gamut p30 guide and gamut ring
ccdb with ti spring
180 amd 165 formula rotors

I think he specifically wants 200mm rotors - and given that the dude has/does race WC's, he probably knows enough to know he wants that.

 

[sgarstin]

Schwalbe VertStar Muddy Mary 2.35 tires. Other then that I would reccomend a Cane Creek Double Barrel rear shock, Although it is a relatively heavy shock I think. Also this may sound kind of silly, but some Straitline bar end caps give a nice secure feeling to your hands.

But wait, shouldn't we be asking you this kind of stuff Cesar?

I am excited to see what the frame is!

 

[S.K.C.]

Hi guys!
The goal is to build a sub 33lbs (15kg) bike with 2.5" tires and tubes on it, no way to race on tubeless.

My first thought was
Frame: Surprise
Fork: boxxer wc 2550gr
Shock: RC4 440gr
Spring: progressive 300lbs 270gr
Handlebar: havoc dh carbon 235gr
Sprocket: Custom XTR 7speed 106gr
Stem: Prototype one i have 95gr
Cranks: XTR 623gr
Brakes: Formula The one 416gr
Rotors: 200mm front+rear 324gr
Brake adapters: formula 43gr
Wheelset front: Dee max ultimate 909gr
Wheelset rear: Dee max ultimate 1048gr
Derrailleur: XTR with Saint cage 179gr
Shifter: XTR 103gr
Seat clamp: 15gr
Chainguide: MRP mini G2 32-36T: 171gr
Ring: e13 36T 44gr
Head set: FSA bearings + cap and bolts 56gr
Chain: KMC 229gr
Seat post: Easton EC90 160gr
Seat: Selle italia 135gr
Grips: Odi ruffian 108gr
Tires + tubes: Minion Fr 2.5" 3098gr
Cables: 60gr
Various bolts: 57gr
Pedals: Mallet 395gr


So let me know what you will change, where you think I can take some weight and other ideas... Like this bike should be under 33lbs without much problems...

Cheers!

Cesar, how are you? How is Fabien?

Given the nature of this build it seems that some things are pre-determined such as the Mavic wheels and a Shimano drivetrain but everything sounds to be spec'd about as light as possible without sacrificing durability. The proto stem however sounds frighteningly lightweight. Are you using 7000 series aluminum for the stem?

The suggestion Udi made of using a 2.5" stroke Ti spring from DSP sounds like one of the best ways to shave weight from your build.

 

[EVIL JN]

Foam grips? Seems like some people like them, would shed alittle weight. Strippnig the saddle? Pretty dialed build as it is really and not to much to change for any sustantiale amount of weight savings, with out bring out a drill or sacrificing something in terms of safety or comfort.

 

[cesar_rojo]

gamut p30 guide and gamut ring
ccdb with ti spring
180 amd 165 formula rotors

Will check the weight of the gamut guide.
Cane creek really want to check it, don't mind if adds bit of extra weight. Hope the setting is a bit softer than it was in the past. Got one (supposed to be specially tuned fo our bike) and was to harsh for me. I have chicken arms and legs, so need gentle suspensions.

Schwalbe VertStar Muddy Mary 2.35 tires. Other then that I would reccomend a Cane Creek Double Barrel rear shock, Although it is a relatively heavy shock I think. Also this may sound kind of silly, but some Straitline bar end caps give a nice secure feeling to your hands.

But wait, shouldn't we be asking you this kind of stuff Cesar?

I am excited to see what the frame is!

I haven't test everysingle piece of equipment some help is always helpful

Cesar, how are you? How is Fabien?

Given the nature of this build it seems that some things are pre-determined such as the Mavic wheels and a Shimano drivetrain but everything sounds to be spec'd about as light as possible without sacrificing durability. The proto stem however sounds frighteningly lightweight. Are you using 7000 series aluminum for the stem?

The suggestion Udi made of using a 2.5" stroke Ti spring from DSP sounds like one of the best ways to shave weight from your build.

Nothing pre-determined, only but what i like. I've rident the dee max for 1year a half and had no problems, they are light, so why change, but if you know something that will help my goal is welcome. Shimano same, i always liked shimano, so it's my first option.

Yes steam is a bit scary light, but used for lot's of races without any problems, so should do some mods and race that one. Yes 7075, i am looking into start experimenting with some special 2000 series, but so damn expensive

 

[Pslide]

I think you could save at least 100g by going to some trick rotors, such as new 2011 XTR:

"The new XTR rotors have an aluminum core with stainless steel surfaces. Shimano says the dual material construction is good for a 100-degree rotor temperature reduction. Centerlock mounting returns. Rotor sizes from 140 to 203mm are available."

There was another company doing aluminum rotors (apart from Stans) with a coating that were very light, but I can't remember the name...

Looking forward to seeing the new bike Cesar!

 

[frango]

I wouldn't risk new triple-layer XTR rotors

From my (#55) post (check attachment) and Fluider's translations
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233627&page=4

 

[iRider]

Frame: Surprise

Why am I thinking carbon Summum?

For wheels: Tune MK wheelset, 1607 g according to Tune.

 

[freeridefool]

Its good to see you about to get back on the bike cesar. Hope the season goes well for you.

 

[IH8Rice]

For wheels: Tune MK wheelset, 1607 g according to Tune.

my god, i just broke them thinking about how light that is

 

[amnonis]

why using 2.5" tires? I thought some pros are using 2.35" or 2.4 ?
which tubes are you using? 3.1 kg seems way too much IMHO. I think you should consider using Onza DH tires which are 100-150 g lighter http://www.onzatires.com/index.php?article_id=22&clang=1
what's the point using UST wheels if you're not running tubless? true that they strong but 1960 g for Wheelset isn't that light. Why can't you run tubless? what is your normal tire pressure if I may ask?

 

[klunky]

I ran tune hubs once on my XC bike.
If you want to build the lightest bike possible then go for it.
If you want to ride your bike then dont put tune parts on it.

 

[IH8Rice]

that wheelset is about 400grams heavier then one of my wheels

 

[iRider]

If you want to ride your bike then dont put tune parts on it.

If they last long enough for your race run and put you on the podium, who cares?

 

[S.K.C.]

Nothing pre-determined, only but what i like. I've rident the dee max for 1year a half and had no problems, they are light, so why change, but if you know something that will help my goal is welcome. Shimano same, i always liked shimano, so it's my first option.

Yes stem is a bit scary light, but used for lot's of races without any problems, so should do some mods and race that one. Yes 7075, i am looking into start experimenting with some special 2000 series, but so damn expensive

OK - I was under the impression that this was a frame designated for team issue. If there are no contractual obligations to use Mavic Ultimates (which are fantastic wheels to begin with) I would try the ENVE/EDGE carbon rims. They seem to provide additional benefits vs. aluminum such as vibration damping, enhanced lateral stiffness, and dent resistance in addition to lower rotational mass. Given that the boys at the Syndicate seem to have had a positive experience with them last season, and that Minaar and Peaty aren't small riders by any means, I'd say it's worth a go. The only negative aspects of using them might be availability in the EU and cost.

Good to hear! 6061 is a fairly stout material, but 7075 or even 7050 in this kind of application would be a safer bet, I think.

So when will any pics of the new mystery ride appear?

 

[Pslide]

I wouldn't risk new triple-layer XTR rotors

From my (#55) post (check attachment) and Fluider's translations
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233627&page=4

Oh crap! Yeah, forget I mentioned the XTR rotors!

 

[cableguy]

The only negative aspects of using them might be availability in the EU and cost.

Yeah, if you don't mind spending something like $800 per rim. And I hear they don't last more than 1 race run.

 

[norbar]

Yeah, if you don't mind spending something like $800 per rim. And I hear they don't last more than 1 race run.

Strangly enough Bryceland had his from pre season up to 1st world cup at least if not longer(only rember that claim from 1st cup, didn't follow later). Not to mention Cesar is a lighter rider than Bryce is but yeah it's carbon it must be ****.