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Help me out here christian conservatives.

Discussion in 'Politics & World News' started by BurlyShirley, Mar 8, 2008.

  1. BurlyShirley

    BurlyShirley Rex Grossman Will Rise Again

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    Conservatives want to legislate christian morality into law.

    One of the main tenets of christianity is charity. To be most 'christ-like' the more one gives, the better a person they are.

    Conservatives oppose any tax increases which might be used to increase welfare benefits, healthcare, or education for the poor. They view using their earned income as "handouts" to the poor as a misuse of tax dollars. How is this different than charity? If conservatives want to mandate christian morality, why do they only pick and choose the parts that dont cost them anything?

    Where is the consistency in that?
     
    #1 -   Mar 8, 2008

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  2. $tinkle

    $tinkle Expert on blowing

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    i don't so much believe that we want to legislate morality unconditionally, as it's unrealistic mostly from its enforceability. imagine how laws against gossip, foul language, or obesity would fly over.

    and i don't necessarily believe that blind charity makes a "better" christian as does wise charity. example: throwing cash to every panhandler. financially supporting programs which empower - not enable - is preferred.

    as far as the pick-and-choose morals which are without costs, i point you toward the GWoT, which is exorbitantly costly, and by a great many in our midst, noble. unfortunately, bush didn't package it to include a humanitarian effort.

    if what you believe is inconsistent, would you expect christians to pony up the cash for those people whose homes are in foreclosure? that's foolish, and against being a good steward of one of God's gifts.

    why do i have a funny feeling this'll become a "gotcha!" thread?
     
    #2 -   Mar 8, 2008
  3. N8 v2.0

    N8 v2.0 Not the sharpest tool in the shed

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    you could ask why liberals so intolerant of non liberal views...

    :p
     
    #3 -   Mar 8, 2008
  4. DRB

    DRB unemployed bum

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    You're going to HELL.
     
    #4 -   Mar 8, 2008
  5. BurlyShirley

    BurlyShirley Rex Grossman Will Rise Again

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    Well that's kind of my point, in essence, that picking and choosing different parts of the bible to enforce, based merely upon how non-committal they require the constituents to be, rather than upon some strict moral code that requires adherence to all the rules, is a little cheap.


    I think that's everyone's viewpoint, but people's actions and voting records don't necessarily support it. For instance, viewing subsidized healthcare for children as "throwing cash at a panhandler" doesn't seem like something jesus would do, but maybe I have the message wrong? Im pretty sure he cured prostitutes and random homeless people just because he felt it was the right thing to do. Because they were suffering.

    Ulitmately, if you view the GWoT as a "Christian" campaign, things are alot worse than I thought. Certainly mainstream american christians are behind it, and mostly because they view islam as an enemy, but if that was the actual motivation... how could something like the humanitarian aspect be left out when it should've been the most important part from a caring christian perspective?


    Well, if a member of my local congregation (assuming I was christian) came to church and said "I need help, lost meh job, house getting foreclosed" you can bet Id add to the collection plate. I bet most christians do that kind of thing all the time. Why is it incorrect to do so on a larger scale?
     
    #5 -   Mar 8, 2008
  6. N8 v2.0

    N8 v2.0 Not the sharpest tool in the shed

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    you lost your house gambling on a ARM?
     
    #6 -   Mar 8, 2008
  7. LordOpie

    LordOpie MOTHER HEN

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    You can only do so much, expend so much energy.

    In Judiasm, you're supposed to do what you can. There are 613 mitzvahs and as a child, you're supposed to pick a few. As you age, you're supposed to do more and more. You can pick which ones you want to do.

    Yeah, like merit badges :)
     
    #7 -   Mar 8, 2008
  8. $tinkle

    $tinkle Expert on blowing

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    then by comparison, do you have more respect for sharia law, b/c it comes with the courage of their convictions absolutely? compare also how important it is to not murder -vs- how important it is not to tease your sister to (perhaps) grasp why some "morals" are in less strict demand of enforcement
    i'm unaware of an opinion so broad as to reasonably associate it with us. is this something you saw on the 700 club?
    no worse than the parable of the good samaritan, except that it took having a personal interest to lay down some heat. intervention in sudan would be a nice thing to do, but not everyone's on board, mostly b/c not everyone views their plight with the same urgency (even within the christian ranks). i'm thinking of jfk's "pay any price, bear any burden, etc." inaugural address for the latter, and i can't help but wonder if dubya really was the fundamentalist people fear he was if the sudan would be in the shape it's in today.
    not exactly; radicalization of it rather. i think we can all agree that unchecked religious zealotry can never be good
    making things personal makes them, well, personal. to your larger point of scale, concern is raised b/c there's been a rich history of both perceived & real abuse. akin to: "if giving is so good b/c it helps people, why do these same people still need help?". i think we can also agree cash cows w/o any sunset aren't very helpful in teaching people "how to fish".

    but as far as pure financial contributions, let me leave you with one assignment: find out which groups privately give the most to charity as a percentage of net worth or income. not to deflect your questions, but rather to give them perspective. i expect you'll find the breakout is less significant among political identity as it is among whether or not they are religiously observant.
     
    #8 -   Mar 8, 2008
  9. Defenestrated

    Defenestrated Turbo Monkey

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    keep yur religion outta my government! :busted:
     
    #9 -   Mar 8, 2008
  10. $tinkle

    $tinkle Expert on blowing

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    sorry, whose government?

    i more prefer "don't let your religion run our government". 40 dead guys can't be wrong
     
  11. Toshi

    Toshi Harbinger of Doom

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    hmm, seems that you are correct, although it's not the only factor, of course:

    http://aladinrc.wrlc.org/dspace/bitstream/1961/3602/1/etd_ath6.pdf

     
  12. $tinkle

    $tinkle Expert on blowing

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    well, it's the nose on your face that ability translates to action.
    my point is when everything is equal (or even unknown), religious observance translates to more giving.

    of course, we mustn't ignore emotional manipulation. here's where the likes of creflo dollar, benny hinn, & their ilk begin to play with fire. not literally....yet.

    get pissed: http://www.ministrywatch.com/mw2.1/H_Home.asp