[quickneonrt]

Ok it is time for new brakes, I have been using Juicy 7s on a few bikes and between getting faster and gaining weight the Juicys don't cut it. So I am trying to decide on what is the best brake to go with, new Saints, Codes, or Elixirs. I like the Elixir CR but don't want thr cf levers for dh.

 

[cubebiker]

Saint is basically the worst thing I have tried from those you mention.
I ride a Elixir CR and love it. Code would be way to heavy and the one I tried before changed leverposition during a single ride. Saint used to squeak like hell so go get elixirs how ever you like em

 

[5150dhbiker]

I like my CR's. Just make sure that after a couple rides you bleed them and you'll be golden. Otherwise they'll start pumping up and not working right...learned this one in Snowmass.

Otherwise, the stopping power of the Codes are great but they're a little too heavy for my taste :~

 

[godfather]

I own Elixer CRs and Saints. I like both and would recommend either one. Personally I prefer the Saints. They just have better modulation, plain and simple. They are also much easier to bleed, no special tools needed and they use mineral oil rather than brake fluid. They are noisier than the Elixers, but it's not a constant thing and there are some folks out there that have found ways to eliminate the issue such as changing to a non metallic pad. Some people have even had the noise fade after break-in. Truthfully, I don't mind the noise, and I feel very confident in their braking power, modulation and consistency.

FWIW, I'm running 203mm rotors front and rear on both set-ups, and I'm 6' 150 pounds.

 

[Jason4]

I just made the same decision, I decided my Hopes weren't cutting it and I didn't have the patience to order pads everytime I needed them.

I wanted to get the new Saints but ended up going for the Elixir Rs because they were in stock at my LBS and the difference in price and lead time wasn't worth it for the CRs.

I've felt the codes but didn't even get a full lap on them so I don't have much input except that they are heavier and that's what pointed me to the Elixirs.

I rode them last night for the first ride and they felt good but the trails I rode are very flat and don't really require anything more than v-brakes. I'm headed to Whistler for the day Saturday and will post again with how I feel about my choice after that. I still need to cut the hose and bleed them too.

 

[Jason4]

As for the noise on the Saints: has anyone tried applying anti-sieze compound to the edges of the backing plate on the brake pad and the back surface where the pad makes contact with the caliper and piston? That's a critical step to eliminating noise on car brakes.

 

[Uncle Cliffy]

They are noisier than the Elixers, but it's not a constant thing and there are some folks out there that have found ways to eliminate the issue such as changing to a non metallic pad. Some people have even had the noise fade after break-in.

Just curious, who makes a non-metalic pad for the 810 Saints?

 

[jonnynails]

I really loved my codes. I felt they had good modulation and by far the best stopping power. I put organic pads on once the metallic ones wore out and it really improved the feel of the brake. Just had a great lever feel and were very consistent. Only downfall with them is the weight. Still the best DH brake I've used.

Haven't tried the Saints yet, but have heard the same things you have - great power but some of them are noisey. I'm running XT's now which are very mediocre and I'm looking at getting some Saints.

 

[Sandwich]

Well if you spend any time on this forum, you know what I'm going to say....

My 810s have been flawless since day 1. The only time they've ever squealed was a greasey day at plattekill about 15 feet from the bottom on a very brake heavy run. Lever position is flawless, throw is just about where I want it, I wish I had less "lever play" (free movement) but it's kind of like saying "I wish my ferrari had triple stitched leather upholstery". I love these suckers and everybody who has ridden my bike has agreed. They have only faded very faintly on one or two runs at whiteface and again at the very bottom of super steep platty.

I'm running mine with alligator sawblade rotors 203mm and magura adapters. I don't know if the rotors I have are cutting back on noise or power or grabbiness, but there have been a few times that I've considered grabbing real rotors to try and get back a touch of power for the uber long runs.

The codes I have ridden have all been adequately powerful and have excellent lever feel, both in the blade itself and the action of braking. The thing that stopped me from getting them was horror stories about bleeding and quality control. Your mileage may vary, but after coming off a pair of "HOPE these work" brakes, I didn't want to take any chances.

I am a big (fat) dude at 200lbs and probably ride the brakes harder than I should. If you're a lightweight, the elixirs might work for you, but brakes are one of the few areas I just don't think you should skimp on.

 

[cableguy]

Look into Formula Ones (or Oros for cheaper/less power). Great power, modulation, decent weight, etc.

 

[Orvan]

Just curious, who makes a non-metalic pad for the 810 Saints?

A2Z or something through jerseycycles.com. But the contact numbers are antiquated. The dude, Bob, has an ebay store (nj cycles) and said has the pads. But never returned my previous emails. I want to try non-metallic pads.

Elicirs are cool too. I live Saints better though.

 

[mserko1]

I just got a new set of 08 codes the other day and so far I love them. Obviously haven't had all that much time on them but they are super powerful and I'm a pretty big guy (6'3" 220 lbs). They are also really easy to adjust. They are a bit heavier but I can deal with it if they're gonna stop me faster. I've never used any of the other brakes you're lookin at but so far my codes have been awesome.

 

[scottishmark]

and they use mineral oil rather than brake fluid.

surely that's a negative? You can get dot 4 or 5.1 for any auto shop, whereas mineral oil......?

 

[Jason4]

surely that's a negative? You can get dot 4 or 5.1 for any auto shop, whereas mineral oil......?

at any grocery store or pharmacy. It's the same as baby oil too which you probably keep in your top drawer next to your...

 

[godfather]

at any grocery store or pharmacy. It's the same as baby oil too which you probably keep in your top drawer next to your...

Add to that almost any hardware/home improvement store. It's also not caustic like DOT fluids. If it gets spilled somewhere you didn't want it, for instance a nice painted surface, it won't eat it's way through it. More importantly though, Saints bleed like an automotive brake. No special tools or bleed kit necessary.

With regard to noise, mine have only been noisy under really heavy braking through some high speed sections coming into tight switchbacks. If I could pick just one set between my Elixer CRs and my Saints, I'd go with the Saints. I thought they would be overkill, but I really like them.

 

[gemini2k]

I like my CR's. Just make sure that after a couple rides you bleed them and you'll be golden. Otherwise they'll start pumping up and not working right...learned this one in Snowmass.

Otherwise, the stopping power of the Codes are great but they're a little too heavy for my taste :~

Snomass is a lot higher than SB, gotta bleed them once you get there

 

[Kanye West]

at any grocery store or pharmacy. It's the same as baby oil too which you probably keep in your top drawer next to your...

No it absolutely is not. Be prepared to throw your brakes in the trash if you put baby oil in there.

Don't say you weren't warned.

 

[quickneonrt]

How exactly do you bleed saints. I have juicys and hate bleeding them, never seem to get the same feel as new. Also they work better with 5.1 but it is impossible to find in my area so I end up with 4.1.
One of the reasons I am leary of the Elixirs or Codes

 

[time-bomb]

More importantly though, Saints bleed like an automotive brake. No special tools or bleed kit necessary.

What does this mean exactly? How does that work? Just curious. I left Hayes and Hope behind because I felt the Avid bleed system was so easy and worked well. If there is an easier/better/more efficient way then I want to try those brakes out. I have been riding Avid brakes trouble free for so long now - if it ain't broke....................

At the same time, now that I have been using them for so long (and with great success) I am curious to try other things.

 

[Sandwich]

magura certainly doesn't recommend it, but I wonder if it would last as a band-aid for a day.

Anyways, each fluid has its own ups and downs; DOT is super easy to find, and, in a pinch, you can siphon some from just about any car to use when the world ends. Mineral oil is non-toxic, non-bleaching and staining, but shimano will bend you over a table for their oil, and will probably screw you on warranty if it's not the right stuff. There are other alternatives around, but everything is generally pretty hard to find, unless you ride near a german auto dealer or the bike shop is well stocked.

 

[Sandwich]

I did a "it's noon and I want to ride" bleed on my saints by opening the res, filling it with fluid, covering it and holding it on, then pumping them up a little and opening the bleed port. Close that, pump, open again. Then you generally have to open the cover and refill. Took me just a little while, but I got it done. No noticeable fade or sponginess.

I do imagine there's a better or "right" way to do in shimano's book, like hooking up syringes and buying special kits then hugging your grandma and wearing very large shoes while on a non-conductive mat inside a hermetically sealed bag, like a lot of manufacturers. No triple bleeding here, as far as I know.

 

[demo 9]

4 sets of codes, never looked back, id stay away from the saints as there are no aftermarket levers for them, (i NEVER run stock levers)

 

[Iridemtb]

I would beg to differ. I have already blown the master cylinder in my avid codes, and they leak when the bike is upside down...

The caliper is great, the lever is not.

 

[IH8Rice]

As for the noise on the Saints: has anyone tried applying anti-sieze compound to the edges of the backing plate on the brake pad and the back surface where the pad makes contact with the caliper and piston? That's a critical step to eliminating noise on car brakes.

that is what you would do with a car, but the problem with the Saints is all 4 pistons dont move in unison with each other causing a toe in type issue. there have also been problems with the pad compound itself causing it to squeal.
my buddy swapped to Kool Stop pads on his new Saints and hasnt had a issue

id stay away from the saints as there are no aftermarket levers for them, (i NEVER run stock levers)

why the hell would that make a difference?
because they are so new that no one has made a lever for it, so it must suck?

 

[Kanye West]

Is there anywhere online to get the Kool Stop pads? As of now I don't think anyone carries replacement Shimano pads for the new Saints.

 

[IH8Rice]

Is there anywhere online to get the Kool Stop pads? As of now I don't think anyone carries replacement Shimano pads for the new Saints.

havent seen the Kool stops online, but since he works for a shop, he ordered em from QBP for the cheap.

 

[Jason4]

No it absolutely is not. Be prepared to throw your brakes in the trash if you put baby oil in there.

Don't say you weren't warned.

Mineral oil with added fragrance is marketed as baby oil in the US, UK and Canada. While baby oil is primarily marketed as a generic skin ointment, other applications exist in common use. It is often used on infant "diaper rashes" to ease the inflammation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_oil

I don't think I'd put it into my $600 brakes either but I don't think there is much difference between mineral oil and baby oil. It's definatley not some exotic fluid.

 

[gemini2k]

and they leak when the bike is upside down...

Wait....what? Get new seals then. Or you've got some sort of defective part there. Mine are upside down all the time, at elevations from sea level to 9k feet. Never had any problems.

 

[godfather]

The process for bleeding Saints, and most Shimano brakes, is basically as described above. This is not word for word, but a basic overview of the process. Open the reservoir keeping it level, fill with fluid, pump lever (there is a more precise recommended pumping sequence), open bleed screw at caliper, add fluid to keep reservior topped off as fluid is bled off, top off reservoir after bleed screw is closed again, replace gasket and cover forcing out excess fluid in the reservoir. That's pretty much it.

As for mineral oil, it's not as hard to find as people make it sound. It is very commonly used as a wood preservative for things like cutting boards, wood countertops, etc.. I don't know if Shimano is super strict about using their own fluid, but I don't think so, just that it needs to be pure mineral oil.

 

[Prettym1k3]

Been riding my CR's 1-2 times a week since March. Break in time was about 2-3 rides.

Haven't had a single problem yet, and even the factory bleed was good. After all that trail riding, local DH, and 5 days at Northstar, the CR's front pads are at about 75%, and the rear is at about 50%.

Love the modulation, love the feel of a CF lever, and love the ability to lock em' up if I absolutely have to.

Running 8" front/6" rear and I'm 6' tall and 165lbs.

 

[Kanye West]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_oil

I don't think I'd put it into my $600 brakes either but I don't think there is much difference between mineral oil and baby oil. It's definatley not some exotic fluid.

The baby oil is WAY thicker, and forms air bubbles under pressure super easy. The Magura/Shimano mineral oil is really thin, like a 2w oil or something, maybe less.

FYI, ignore the Shimano fluid. Magura Blood Mineral Oil available at almost any moto shop is the same price for a container like 10x as large (and a couple bucks for a small bottle to get you through a quick bleed). Same stuff.

 

[Jason4]

Do you have any documents or literature that compares baby oil, general issue grocery store mineral oil, and Shimano liquid gold mineral oil? The quick search I did on wikipedia (the best interwebz source evar!!!) says they are the same except for fragrance and I have doubts that fragrance modifies the viscosity much.

 

[Kanye West]

No, I just saw someone I know put them into his Saints and he basically ruined them. No amount of cleaning made them the same.

If you want to see for yourself, go feel them side by side.

 

[Jason4]

I did some more internet searching and came up with a baby oil MSDS sheet here:
http://www.cumberlandswan.com/boil.pdf

Basically it says that baby oil is mineral oil with <5% fragrance added to it. I could imagine that baby oil could cause damage or swelling in the seals. Like I said, I would think it is ok to use the basic grocery store variety of mineral oil but I wouldn't feel comfortable with baby oil even though they are 95% the same. But I guess humans and chimpanzees are 95% the same too and I wouldn't subsititute one for the other there either.

Are you sure your friend didn't try to bleed his brakes with DOT brake fluid first or possibly get fluid on his pads/rotor. What was the effect? Squishy feeling? Premature brake fade? Pads dragged constantly? Inconsistent lever? What means did he try to solve the problem with? I'd try new pads and rotor first, then disassembling the calipers, hose and master cylinder and cleaining in isopropyl alcohol. If that doesn't work I'll pay for shipping and he can give them to me.

 

[quickneonrt]

So there are no p.I.t.a. fittings and rubber banding the lever back while forcing fluild through the caliper. Trying to bleed the lever, the line and the caliper. Then what about trying to get all the fraking air bubbles out.

 

[soul-skier]

I own Elixer CRs and Saints. I like both and would recommend either one. Personally I prefer the Saints. They just have better modulation, plain and simple. . Some people have even had the noise fade after break-in.

My new whip came with Saint 810's. They have ZERO modulation. It's on or off. They do provide incredible braking power. I have not experienced any unwanted noise either. I run Avid G2 rotors, 203 front, 185 rear. And the stock levers feel awsome. They are slightly contoured so your braking finger sits nicely in this little pocket in the lever. Very comfy during long, steep runs at Plattekill.

Look into Formula Ones (or Oros for cheaper/less power). Great power, modulation, decent weight, etc.

The Formula Ones are still my favorite. The power is plentiful for one-finger braking but not as powerful as the new Saints. What I like about the Ones is the modulation of power. You really have to try to lock up the rear. The Saints lock up almost as soon as they are engaged. Does anyone know the weight comparison between the Ones and Saint 810's before I make an unnessesary swap to shave a few grams? Don't get me wrong, the Saints are sweet....I just don't like so much brake I guess.

 

[davet]

What about Hayes Stroker Ace? I hear that Hayes is finally back in the game again with these.

 

[jvnixon]

Does anyone know the weight comparison between the Ones and Saint 810's before I make an unnessesary swap to shave a few grams?

http://www.sicklines.com/weights/discbrakes/

looks like ~200g or so

 

[bikeguru]

Who spends £360 on brakes and then uses baby oil cos they're too tight to buy the proper fluid? You deserve everything you get!
I love the Codes, albeit the levers are pretty rubbish so i use code calipers with juicy carbon levers and they're flawless. My 6" bike has XTR brakes which are impressive also, and in my experience the shimanos are lower maintenance so i'd be tempted to try Saint M810s. Wouldn't touch formulas with a 10' pole though! Have you ever tried to get spares?

 

[Kanye West]

I swapped from the Formula Mega's to the Saints. You won't ever hear me complain about the weight difference.