[Verskis]

Please explain me how is the Cane Creek Angleset possible.

They say it is not headtube length dependent, which makes it sound like the bearings and cups have spherical contact surfaces, so the bearings float and self-align themselves.

But then they also have several different cups and give exact values for the offset angle for each cup. I can understand the need for different cups, as the bearing seats should be more nonconcentric for larger offset angles, but I can't understand how the offset angle could be the same for different headtube lengths. Shouldn't the angle be larger for shorter headtubes? Or are the differences so small that Cane Creek can specify the angle offset to the accuracy of 0.5 degrees with good conscience?

Or have I assumed the whole configuration wrong?

 

[Dogboy]

Shouldn't the angle be larger for shorter headtubes?

This is correct. The angle does change slightly with variation in head tube length. I'm not sure what the base length used for reference is, but that would be key in determining how close you will be.

 

[troy]

http://www.canecreek.com/angleset -> Learn moar .

 

[Vrock]

Yes, the angle changes but only a little. Nobody cares if you get 1.01º or 0.99º and not 1º

 

[Verskis]

http://www.canecreek.com/angleset -> Learn moar .

Okay, I should have searched the Cane Creek site harder, this confirmed my assumptions about the configuration: http://www.canecreek.com/AngleSet?config=ZS49-ZS49

It would be nice to know how large is the angle difference when installed to say 4" or 5" headtube. It would be quite simple to calculate if the eccentricity of different upper cups were known.

 

[Verskis]

Nobody cares if you get 1.01º or 0.99º and not 1º

Ha, I would guess some gearheads on Ridemonkey do care

 

[jonKranked]

its fvckin magic dude

 

[Verskis]

I just realized you could also adjust the wheelbase ever so slightly with the normal 1.5" headtube version of the Angleset:
If the eccentric cup is installed as the upper one, the wheelbase will be shorter than if the eccentric cup is the lower one. This would be true if you use the cups to slacken the head angle, when used to steepen the head angle it would work the opposite.

What if you ran two eccentric cups, possibly something like 2 to 3 degrees of offset?

 

[Salami]

Okay, I should have searched the Cane Creek site harder, this confirmed my assumptions about the configuration: http://www.canecreek.com/AngleSet?config=ZS49-ZS49

OK. Now I have some questions. Why are there two different head sets listed in the link? Looks like one is a cheaper version with only one angle adjustment?

Also can either version be adjusted to zero?

 

[Jeremy R]

OK. Now I have some questions. Why are there two different head sets listed in the link? Looks like one is a cheaper version with only one angle adjustment?

Also can either version be adjusted to zero?

The cheaper version only has one angle adjustment.
And they can be adjusted to zero.


As far as how they work:
Hey, how exactly is a rainbow made? How exactly does the sun set? How exactly does the posi-trac rear end on a Plymouth work!? It just does. It just does....

 

[4xBoy]

its fvckin magic dude

I thought it was magnets.

 

[jonKranked]

I thought it was magnets.

magic operates many things

 

[Uncle Cliffy]

its fvckin magic dude

 

[MinorThreat]

. . . How exactly does the posi-trac rear end on a Plymouth work!? ...

It's actually Sure-Grip; Posi-Traction is a GM term. Know your pumpkins .

 

[IH8Rice]

It's actually Sure-Grip; Posi-Traction is a GM term. Know your pumpkins .

mopar for life kid

 

[Verskis]

As far as how they work:
Hey, how exactly is a rainbow made? How exactly does the sun set? How exactly does the posi-trac rear end on a Plymouth work!? It just does. It just does....

Okay, let's not think about anything anymore!

 

[Verskis]

OK. Now I have some questions. Why are there two different head sets listed in the link? Looks like one is a cheaper version with only one angle adjustment?

Also can either version be adjusted to zero?

The cheaper version comes with only one eccentric cup, the more expensive comes with three different cups so you can adjust your head angle by changing different cup.

I think you will need to buy the other concentric cup separately if you want to adjust it to zero, as it is not listed there.

 

[captainspauldin]

The cheaper version comes with only one eccentric cup, the more expensive comes with three different cups so you can adjust your head angle by changing different cup.

I think you will need to buy the other concentric cup separately if you want to adjust it to zero, as it is not listed there.

Wouldn't you just get a regular headset if you wanted to adjust to zero?

 

[Verskis]

Wouldn't you just get a regular headset if you wanted to adjust to zero?

What if you wanted to adjust your head angle for each track, sometimes you could want zero. Changing only one cup would be easier than changing the whole headset.
I don't know if people really are that bothered about the head angle, when changing the angle involves changing the cup, but at least you could adjust your head angle within 3 degrees with 0.5 increments if you also had the zero degree option.

 

[4130biker]

Are any companies going to deny warranties based on this product? I know some companies don't like you messing with the geometry of a frame.. And would 1 deg. of a slacker HA make much of a difference for when a frame fails? The reason I ask is, this product could sure make some trail bikes a lot more fun, but some I wonder if some would hold up to a slacker front end.

Finally, does changing your HA mean having to press out and re-press your headset in for each change, or is it easier than that?

 

[IH8Rice]

Finally, does changing your HA mean having to press out and re-press your headset in for each change, or is it easier than that?

yes, only for the top cup though.

curious as to how youll be able to rotate the cup on the new M9 with it's pinch bolt headtube. id think turning the cup would still be hard even with a pinch bolt.

 

[captainspauldin]

curious as to how youll be able to rotate the cup on the new M9 with it's pinch bolt headtube. id think turning the cup would still be hard even with a pinch bolt.

With my commencals I would just loosen the pinchbolts and rotate the sleeve, but the commencal system had a sleeve that you pressed the headset cups in.. I imagine it would be the same, just rotate the cups instead of the sleeve? I'm sure stikman will inform us shortly..

 

[Dogboy]

Finally, does changing your HA mean having to press out and re-press your headset in for each change, or is it easier than that?

Yes, but only the top cup. That is why Intense used a pinch-bolt on the upper cup on the M9.

 

[stiksandstones]

We put the pinch bolt top on our M9 headtube so you could swap out different AngleSet© cups WITHOUT using headset press or headset removal tools. You wont be able to just loosen the bolt and spin the cup, but atleast you don't need to bring all those 'wicked gnar toolz' to change your head angle.

 

[IH8Rice]

We put the pinch bolt top on our M9 headtube so you could swap out different AngleSet© cups WITHOUT using headset press or headset removal tools. You wont be able to just loosen the bolt and spin the cup, but atleast you don't need to bring all those 'wicked gnar toolz' to change your head angle.

im sure its still a pretty tight fit into the headtube right? can you just push the old cup in and out?

 

[stiksandstones]

im sure its still a pretty tight fit into the headtube right? can you just push the old cup in and out?

It is pretty tight, WORST case scenario you can use a tool on hand to 'pop' it out. I have used a metal tire lever, screwdriver, contractors pencil, sharpie to pop it out. You can use palm of your hand to get it back in, even lightly tap with a rubber mallet, rubber end of a screwdriver, etc (these are all at your condo at a race scenarios-hence the ghetto list of tools )

 

[ianjenn]

mopar for life kid

426 HEMI the only thing good MOPAR ever made. I am 100% serious on this. That motor was awesome the rest eh not so much.

 

[IH8Rice]

It is pretty tight, WORST case scenario you can use a tool on hand to 'pop' it out. I have used a metal tire lever, screwdriver, contractors pencil, sharpie to pop it out. You can use palm of your hand to get it back in, even lightly tap with a rubber mallet, rubber end of a screwdriver, etc (these are all at your condo at a race scenarios-hence the ghetto list of tools )

nice, sounds easy enough!

426 HEMI the only thing good MOPAR ever made. I am 100% serious on this. That motor was awesome the rest eh not so much.

i dont know about only thing...the 727 torqueflite is/was a amazing tranny which is still used today, and the 440 6-pack was awesome...the slant-6 was pretty good too for a 6cylinder too....but the Elephant still takes the cake
also, the last gen of "magnum" engines (ala 5.2/5.9..318/360) were pretty reliable too.

 

[ianjenn]

nice, sounds easy enough!



i dont know about only thing...the 727 torqueflite is/was a amazing tranny which is still used today, and the 440 6-pack was awesome...the slant-6 was pretty good too for a 6cylinder too....but the Elephant still takes the cake
also, the last gen of "magnum" engines (ala 5.2/5.9..318/360) were pretty reliable too.

Yeah I was gonna throw the 727 in there also. But at the level of the 426 only a ZL-1 or a ford 427 side oiler are in the same league. CC is cool too. The 6.7 Cummins and Ford 7.3 PS are pretty good also.

 

[4130biker]

Yes, but only the top cup. That is why Intense used a pinch-bolt on the upper cup on the M9.

That's a cool feature!

... anyone know the stance of any large bike manufacturers (like Specialized or Giant) on this product? I think it's great that companies like Intense and Santa Cruz have endorsed it for DH bikes, I just haven't heard anything about how other companies are reacting.

Stik- are you guys reccomending this for your AM rigs, or can you comment on wether or not it will affect warranty/ or overall strength of an AM bike if people would like to run one?

Thanks!

 

[Uncle Cliffy]

Stik- are you guys reccomending this for your AM rigs, or can you comment on wether or not it will affect warranty/ or overall strength of an AM bike if people would like to run one?

Not to but in on the answer, but a recent video from Eurobike had Jeff explaining some features of the new Tracer coming out. One of them being the use of a full 1.5 headtube so customers could run the headset of their choosing. He specifically mentioned the Angleset...

 

[4130biker]

Not to but in on the answer, but a recent video from Eurobike had Jeff explaining some features of the new Tracer coming out. One of them being the use of a full 1.5 headtube so customers could run the headset of their choosing. He specifically mentioned the Angleset...

Thanks, man. I tried to give you rep, but it won't let me!
That's cool- it sounds like Intense is ok with it...

I'll see if I can find out what my Specialized dealer says about anglesets on trail bikes (like sj evo's ) I mean, I know frame manufacturers have minimum fork heights/ or weights on some models. I'm sure that changing the HA would give a similiar effect of having a higher A/C height, right?

 

[Uncle Cliffy]

Thanks, man. I tried to give you rep, but it won't let me!
That's cool- it sounds like Intense is ok with it...

I'll see if I can find out what my Specialized dealer says about anglesets on trail bikes (like sj evo's ) I mean, I know frame manufacturers have minimum fork heights/ or weights on some models. I'm sure that changing the HA would give a similiar effect of having a higher A/C height, right?

Hard to say what some of the bigger companys think... Depends on the fine print of their warranty language maybe.

Here's the vid. by the way:
2011 Intense Tracer 2 Eurobike 2010 - SickLines.com on Vimeo
Jeff mentions it around the 2 minute mark.

 

[Dogboy]

I'll see if I can find out what my Specialized dealer says about anglesets on trail bikes (like sj evo's ) I mean, I know frame manufacturers have minimum fork heights/ or weights on some models. I'm sure that changing the HA would give a similiar effect of having a higher A/C height, right?

As far as I know the only current Specialized frame that would work with an Angleset is the Demo.

 

[4130biker]

As far as I know the only current Specialized frame that would work with an Angleset is the Demo.

AngleSet ZS44 – ZS56/30
(Fits tapered head-tubes – 44mm [1-1/8” Zero Stack] ID top, 56mm [1.5” Zero Stack] ID bottom – 1-1/8” Straight Steerer)

... I think this one would work (zero stack top & bottom, tapered)

 

[Dogboy]

AngleSet ZS44 – ZS56/30
(Fits tapered head-tubes – 44mm [1-1/8” Zero Stack] ID top, 56mm [1.5” Zero Stack] ID bottom – 1-1/8” Straight Steerer)

... I think this one would work (zero stack top & bottom, tapered)

Unfortunately (at least as far as the Angleset is concerned) all of the tapered headtubes on Stumpjumpers and Enduros use integrated bearings, not zero stack.

 

[-BB-]

That's a cool feature!

... anyone know the stance of any large bike manufacturers (like Specialized or Giant) on this product? I think it's great that companies like Intense and Santa Cruz have endorsed it for DH bikes, I just haven't heard anything about how other companies are reacting.

Stik- are you guys reccomending this for your AM rigs, or can you comment on wether or not it will affect warranty/ or overall strength of an AM bike if people would like to run one?

EDIT: Not so sure now... Waiting for a resp from DT. The turners look like they have a "zerostack" 1.5 and Cane Creek only does Zerostack's on the tapered headsets.


Thanks!

I was talking to Dave Turner about the HT angle on the new 5spots about a year ago. He said that he wasn't going to tweak it much... jsut go to a 1.5 so that people could use the new anglesets. Guess this means that the Turners are good to use them.

 

[bizutch]

The cheaper version only has one angle adjustment.
And they can be adjusted to zero....

I just bought one off a guy for cheap and learned the hard way that with the 1 degree increment one it is NOT true that you can go to zero.

So I can either run the dw-DHR at 64 or 62. Will call CC today to find out when the other cups will be available. At the price I bought it for, I am NOT complaining.

But to anyone thinking you can run stock head angle with the 1 degree+, 1 degree - version, you need to know that ZERO is not an option.

 

[IH8Rice]

But to anyone thinking you can run stock head angle with the 1 degree+, 1 degree - version, you need to know that ZERO is not an option.

i didnt think that you could. how could you if the cup is offset at 1*?

of all the pictures of the cups ive seen, i havent seen a 0* cup, even though its in the product description.

 

[Dogboy]

I imagine you would just use another lower cup up top to achieve the 0* offset.