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I hate this Boxxer

djamgils

Monkey
Aug 31, 2007
349
0
Holland
I weigh about 160LBS.

I have a video of the sound.
First video is with about 20 psi. second video is without the top cap.
Is it comparable to what you guys are experiencing? I also hear it while riding.
 

Commencal-guy

Monkey
Nov 25, 2007
341
0
Massachusetts, US of A
I weigh about 160LBS.

I have a video of the sound.
First video is with about 20 psi. second video is without the top cap.
Is it comparable to what you guys are experiencing? I also hear it while riding.


Thats what mine sounds like, except its in my Boxxer wc.


KiwiHusser as in air piston you are reffering to the top Black piece correct? that is underneath that wavy washer and small c clip that holds it in place.


How does that prevent the clicking to stop?
 

DirtEveryDay

Turbo Monkey
Nov 24, 2003
2,692
4
Pacific North Wet
OK...I'm kinda confused right now, and probably talking about entirely the wrong thing, but... I've got 150psi in my Boxxer WC, and I weigh the same...perhaps Totems are different...somehow?
 
May 25, 2006
62
0
THRILLSEEKA, I am running 150psi in my WC (well, until it died...and then died again...seems to be leaking the air into the lowers??) and I am more like 175lbs before gear. You might find that a bit lower works best, but you are in the right range. I would have to assume that Totems are different, not sure though.
 

DirtEveryDay

Turbo Monkey
Nov 24, 2003
2,692
4
Pacific North Wet
Actually, I USUALLY weigh 165 in the summer. I haven't ridden since August from an injury and a harsh winter...I'm 180 right now! Grrr....
And Totems might differ a little, but not 125psi!

Dude, try "inflating" that thing and see what happens.
 
May 25, 2006
62
0
Haha, well, I'm usually about 170 but now I'm more like 180... too much time spent studying for uni means losing muscle and gaining fat. The only reason I haven't gotten worse is because I am a bit careful about what I eat, it is kind of sad. I hope you are healed up 100% and the weather lets you ride soon!

True, the 125 psi difference does seem a bit extreme, who knows...

Inflating it? I think I know where that will go... another seal blown out of the lowers. Already had that happen... it is such a reliable fork between the air leaking and the motion control oozing.
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
Yeah and the coefficient of friction of lubricated steel on hard anodised aluminium is about 0.00001. Yeah you can hear springs clicking and sometimes rubbing, but if you're actually feeling stiction, it's not the coil. Don't delude yourself just to try and justify the more expensive fork by assuming that whatever problems the cheaper one has must be due to the cheaper parts, because they're not.
Disagree... I'm with thrillseeka on this one. There's actually a noticeable difference, and I couldn't care less about justifying anything right now (as you know haha) and I've also had at least 2 of each fork.

There's plenty of noticeable stiction in the coil fork, and it's not lubricated steel on hard anodised aluminium - it's a good ~30mm x3 worth of rubber isolator, that inevitably rubs against the stanchion as the spring bends under compression. If the spring didn't bend the isolators wouldn't be necessary, and we all know what coil forks sound like without them. Sometimes you get lucky and the spring compresses straight and there's not much issue. Your fork felt great to me. But at least 50% of the time that's not the case from what I've seen and you've got to deal with noisy coil rub and/or isolator stiction. The latter in boxxers and 40's with the isolators setup right, and the former in 888's (usually much more painful).

The WC in comparison, has two small sliding o-rings, running against a honed/polished surface. It's got noticeably less stiction, and the feel is much more consistent (ie. you don't get more stiction at different points in the travel as the coil spring flexes and squeezes the rubber isolators harder against the stanchion, etc).

I'm sure there's small differences in spring rate curve - but let's face it, how much difference does it make? Refer last year's WC results. I think air shocks are still arguable, but for forks I think sticking with coil makes little sense.
 

Steve M

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2007
1,991
45
Whistler
So, basically what you're saying is...you feel that you know a lot about absolutely nothing that has anything to do with this thread...?
Which means you just felt the need to express a useless opinion, then defend it to the bone....
Next time, try this:
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE CLICKING SOUND IS IN YOUR BOXXER WC, I LIKE FORKS WITH SPRINGS AND AM OF NO USE TO YOU, SORRY.
You were the one crapping on about Teams, don't try and blame me for sidetracking the thread! I think it's entirely relevant anyway given that people suggested getting Teams and you said not to bother for this particular reason.


Disagree... I'm with thrillseeka on this one. There's actually a noticeable difference, and I couldn't care less about justifying anything right now (as you know haha) and I've also had at least 2 of each fork.

There's plenty of noticeable stiction in the coil fork, and it's not lubricated steel on hard anodised aluminium - it's a good ~30mm x3 worth of rubber isolator, that inevitably rubs against the stanchion as the spring bends under compression. If the spring didn't bend the isolators wouldn't be necessary, and we all know what coil forks sound like without them. Sometimes you get lucky and the spring compresses straight and there's not much issue. Your fork felt great to me. But at least 50% of the time that's not the case from what I've seen and you've got to deal with noisy coil rub and/or isolator stiction. The latter in boxxers and 40's with the isolators setup right, and the former in 888's (usually much more painful).

The WC in comparison, has two small sliding o-rings, running against a honed/polished surface. It's got noticeably less stiction, and the feel is much more consistent (ie. you don't get more stiction at different points in the travel as the coil spring flexes and squeezes the rubber isolators harder against the stanchion, etc).

I'm sure there's small differences in spring rate curve - but let's face it, how much difference does it make? Refer last year's WC results. I think air shocks are still arguable, but for forks I think sticking with coil makes little sense.
You do get more stiction in the WC when the whole FORK flexes and binds the already-tight o-rings hard against the shaft and stanchion however. Noticed what a loose fit the MoCo rebound pistons are in the stanchion? There's a reason for that. The plastic isolator on the spring still isn't a tight fit on the stanchion like an o-ring, nor does all of it press at once (at most you'd be looking at 2 coil-thicknesses), and that's assuming the part of the spring rubbing is the part that's covered in the plastic to begin with.

As I said, I've personally owned at least 3 incarnations of coil-sprung Boxxers, and have ridden numerous others as well as any number of WCs (probably 10 or more, yours included). Most of the WCs felt pretty smooth, as did most of the coil ones (teams or races), and I maintain that any problems people have with friction in either fork is primarily due to bushings or seals. If you're really convinced there's significant friction in the spring being compressed, pull the whole leg out of the fork and compress it with the spring compression rod just being pushed against the ground. I have tried this and there is pretty well nothing there.

As for the spring rate, I don't think it's a big enough deal to be a problem for most people, but I don't like that initial preloaded feel that WCs tend to have.
 

djamgils

Monkey
Aug 31, 2007
349
0
Holland
Actually, I USUALLY weigh 165 in the summer. I haven't ridden since August from an injury and a harsh winter...I'm 180 right now! Grrr....
And Totems might differ a little, but not 125psi!

Dude, try "inflating" that thing and see what happens.
the Boxxer stanchions are 32mm so maybe the piston is 28mm. The Totem stanchions are 40mm, so piston 36mm. This gives the totem a surface area that is 1,65 times bigger then the boxxer. If you multiply this by 2 because you have 2 sides on the piston then you have 3,3. My pressure is 50PSI times 3,3 gives 165PSI and that is roughly what you are using.
 

KiwiHusser

Chimp
Feb 29, 2008
19
0
Christchurch, New Zealand
Thats what mine sounds like, except its in my Boxxer wc.


KiwiHusser as in air piston you are reffering to the top Black piece correct? that is underneath that wavy washer and small c clip that holds it in place.


How does that prevent the clicking to stop?
The air piston is the top white object on the assembly with a black o ring on it. On top is the wavy spring, when this wears it looses spring tension an the air piston can get play up and down, the clunk noise you hear is play from the air piston moving up an down on the assembly. Play can also develop on the bottom thread hole of the assembly where the footnut bolts into, as it is pressed in an sometimes can come loose an can also cause the sound you are describing. Its all a matter of elimination. If you aren't confident take your fork to your lbs and get them to carry out the repair. All in all probably easier just to install a new solo air piston assembly.
 

djamgils

Monkey
Aug 31, 2007
349
0
Holland
I dont know how it works with the boxxer but with the totem I have the idea that when I bottom all the forces are transmitted into the shaft guide/ big wavy spring and big ring. could a hard bottom out press the big ring into the stanchion?
Or is there a plastic/rubber ring down in the casting to take the edge of bottoming. Because I bottomed very hard and after that I increased the air pressure and noticed the clicking sound.
Only problem to this is that before I made the video I took the fork apart and have put everything in the correct place but maybe the big ring got pressed into the stanchion again. guess I will just have to take it apart again.

I checked the piston assembly but I couldn't feel any play in there...
 

Commencal-guy

Monkey
Nov 25, 2007
341
0
Massachusetts, US of A
The air piston is the top white object on the assembly with a black o ring on it. On top is the wavy spring, when this wears it looses spring tension an the air piston can get play up and down, the clunk noise you hear is play from the air piston moving up an down on the assembly. Play can also develop on the bottom thread hole of the assembly where the footnut bolts into, as it is pressed in an sometimes can come loose an can also cause the sound you are describing. Its all a matter of elimination. If you aren't confident take your fork to your lbs and get them to carry out the repair. All in all probably easier just to install a new solo air piston assembly.
I was told to do this also, instead placing a spring washer place one O-ring there, but Rockshox said you had to use the wavy washer, becuase the Air piston needed play in order for the air to bleed from the Postitive to the Negative Chamber. I tried using 2 wavy washers, but that didnt do anythig either.


Yesturday I rebuilt the fork, and the clicking is very quiet. It became alot more damped, and only clicks when the fork hasnt been compressed for along time.:cheers: Its a start!!!
 

djamgils

Monkey
Aug 31, 2007
349
0
Holland
the problem is oil levels.

i have a domain that had the same problem, rebuilt it fresh w/ new oil. the click went away.
guess you where right in my case.
I checked the oil level in the damper and it appeared to be about 10~15cc under level. So I changed the oil and the click went away.
 

Commencal-guy

Monkey
Nov 25, 2007
341
0
Massachusetts, US of A
guess you where right in my case.
I checked the oil level in the damper and it appeared to be about 10~15cc under level. So I changed the oil and the click went away.
Same with me, except I think I can top a bit more oil. Its weird. I always fill up the Motion control side with 150CC, but the last time I checked it It was down by 10-15CC also. Weird.
 

PatBranch

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2004
10,451
9
wine country
Thanks. Are you using the rockshox oil?

Torco RFF is a bit cheaper.

Rockshox Oil- Rockshox repackages and sells Torco RFF oils for their forks. This is a blend of synthetic and mineral oils. The goofball aspect to this is that Rockshox in their infinite wisdom re-grades their product. RS2.5=Torco RFF 5, RS5=Torco RFF 7, RS10=Torco RFF 15, and RS15=Torco RFF 20. Rockshox considers their 5 and 10 weights their stock oils in Boxxer forks. RS5 then has a cSt@40 of 16, and RS10 has a cSt@40 of 33. To make RS5 from Red Line Oil use 28% Extra Light and 72% Light, to make RS10 from Red Line Oil use 93% Medium and 7% Heavy. Rockshox RedRum is just Torco MPZ Assembly Lube with the one difference that the Torco product is 117 cSt@40 and the RS Product is 50 cSt@40. This change was for very cold weather performance.
- http://www.peterverdonedesigns.com/bikesuspension.htm
 

rowlands

Monkey
Nov 26, 2006
159
0
try putting your foot on the front tire and pulling up hard... if this dosent work try 5 cc of oil in the air cart sometimes adds a little more coushion
 

freakrock

Monkey
Aug 19, 2005
431
0
Santiago de Chile
Granted my BoXXer is a 05, it never made that much noise before...to me it's worse than any chain slap noise. almost makes me want to get either a coil or another fork all together. :plthumbsdown:
Can you really hear it while riding?
I remember hating the noise and feel a friend's 888 vf2 had when you made it top out in the parking lot (and it certainly was A LOT louder and clunkyer than my current WC) , but i could never feel it, nor hear it while riding his bike down the hill.
 

RMboy

Monkey
Dec 1, 2006
879
0
England the Great...
Hey Luc,
Maybe you can upgrade to the team!:monkeydance:
I know alot of You people don't agree with this state side, but in the UK i would say at least 90% of riders i have met with the WC boxxer have Got the internals changed to team...They just have to many problems!!

LOL even TF tuned say its crap and dont bother buy a team!!

But i know some of the WC ones do feel great and work great, it just seems the majority dont..:biggrin:
 

Laaz

Monkey
Sep 26, 2005
105
0
Slovenia, Europe
I had a TEAM, and it felt great, but it was to soft for my liking. I wasn`t able to get a stiffer spring so i bought 08 WC.

Out of the box it felt much better than the team. I tried a lot of my friends wc`s and neither worked like mine.

As I wanted the fork to keep working great, I went and took it apart, to grease up the lowers. Put it back together, and BOMB!!!! The fork worked like crap.

Tried some things, to make it better, but it got only worse.

So my fork went to the world`s to be repaired by pro`s :)

So the point of the story is: If the fork is working OK, leave it like it is:>


To get back to your problem. Both my team and wc had the top out clicking noise.

Maybe I missed it, but did you try: Before you bolt down the bottom bolt on the compression leg, you push the stanchion all the way in, so all the air goes out, and then you tighten the bolt. It makes kinda of a vacuum, so it should soften the toping out.

Sorry form my blabering.....
 

rowlands

Monkey
Nov 26, 2006
159
0
I had a TEAM, and it felt great, but it was to soft for my liking. I wasn`t able to get a stiffer spring so i bought 08 WC.

Out of the box it felt much better than the team. I tried a lot of my friends wc`s and neither worked like mine.

As I wanted the fork to keep working great, I went and took it apart, to grease up the lowers. Put it back together, and BOMB!!!! The fork worked like crap.

Tried some things, to make it better, but it got only worse.

So my fork went to the world`s to be repaired by pro`s :)

So the point of the story is: If the fork is working OK, leave it like it is:>


To get back to your problem. Both my team and wc had the top out clicking noise.

Maybe I missed it, but did you try: Before you bolt down the bottom bolt on the compression leg, you push the stanchion all the way in, so all the air goes out, and then you tighten the bolt. It makes kinda of a vacuum, so it should soften the toping out.

Sorry form my blabering.....

dont use grease just oil
 

Commencal-guy

Monkey
Nov 25, 2007
341
0
Massachusetts, US of A
Acadian, I feel your pain. That noise on my Boxxer annoyed the hell out of me like no other. I'd end up rebuilding the fork 5 times a day just to silence the stupid noise.


For about a year and a half I had to live with that sound, it too made me think to just get a coil side all together, but just out of kicks I ended up only putting half as much grease as I would on the solo air side and only putting 3-4cc's of 15 wt* not 5 wt on the solo air side.

After that the sound disappeared for me. Back loving my Boxxer wc again finally since day 1 I bought it. I suggest putting only 3-4cc's of 15 wt oil in the solo air side, and be very generous in greasing the Solo air assembly. Also maybe bend the wavy washer on top of the solo air assembly a bit to make it stiffer. I know it may sound dumb but I find that over time the wavy washer loses it's tension. and on top of that Burp the lowers an inch. If you really have to, which I didn't.

Hope it helps and Good Luck.
 

Acadian

Born Again Newbie
Sep 5, 2001
714
2
Blah Blah and Blah
Acadian, I feel your pain. That noise on my Boxxer annoyed the hell out of me like no other. I'd end up rebuilding the fork 5 times a day just to silence the stupid noise.


For about a year and a half I had to live with that sound, it too made me think to just get a coil side all together, but just out of kicks I ended up only putting half as much grease as I would on the solo air side and only putting 3-4cc's of 15 wt* not 5 wt on the solo air side.

After that the sound disappeared for me. Back loving my Boxxer wc again finally since day 1 I bought it. I suggest putting only 3-4cc's of 15 wt oil in the solo air side, and be very generous in greasing the Solo air assembly. Also maybe bend the wavy washer on top of the solo air assembly a bit to make it stiffer. I know it may sound dumb but I find that over time the wavy washer loses it's tension. and on top of that Burp the lowers an inch. If you really have to, which I didn't.

Hope it helps and Good Luck.
well I've pretty much tried everything, so why not try this. I have a plethora of oil, so that's not a problem.

what kind of great are you using on the air piston assembly. Slick Honey? synthetic grease? Judy butter?

I'll keep you posted.
 

FOXROX

Turbo Monkey
Jun 23, 2007
2,120
0
hambur,nj
my 08 wc does this also! at first i thought the cartridge was loose and that wasn't it... it isn't loud and i cant feel it unless I'm actually trying to
 

Carnaza

Monkey
Aug 10, 2006
243
0
Santiago, Chile
maybe this helps..

i have a 06 wc and it used to have the same noise...

i took it apart and find out a little play in the solo air piston... almost in the bottom of it, there is another part "attached" to the piston..

what did i do.. just used some glue (super bonder) and thread (roll it around the piston, exactly between the píston and the part attached to it)... to eliminate the play between the piston and the little part

i worked pretty good the noise didn´t disappear 100% but at least it´s almost unnoticeable.... isn´t a pro solution but it worked for me...
 

Commencal-guy

Monkey
Nov 25, 2007
341
0
Massachusetts, US of A
well I've pretty much tried everything, so why not try this. I have a plethora of oil, so that's not a problem.

what kind of great are you using on the air piston assembly. Slick Honey? synthetic grease? Judy butter?

I'll keep you posted.


I use the Manitou M prep grease. It seems to work very well for the Boxxers. The grease is not thin enough that it''ll break down, but thin enought to smooth out stickyness.

Its all a process of elimination in were the sound is comming from.
 
Nov 3, 2003
119
0
Virginia
I have 2 2008 Team's...mine just starting making the "click", my son's has not. Both forks were bought brand new and have been ridden hard in wet conditions, but only for a couple of months now.
You can't hear it when riding of course, but I don't want it to break or blow up either.
 

Commencal-guy

Monkey
Nov 25, 2007
341
0
Massachusetts, US of A
But seriously...could it be something as simple as not having the spring preloaded enough?
I don't like noises...AT ALL, and I've heard of this before and almost shied away from a Boxxer. Have an 07 WC on the way now and like to know answers even before I have problems.
Someone else on here once posted some pics of the slightest sign of a separation in two parts of the Solo. Liek a friggin 1mm gap between the two halves and he was certain that's what it was. Basically just wear and tear...?

I can FINALLY 100% confirm that the play were the Punch holes are on the Lower Part of the Solo Assembly Rod is in fact where the clicking sound is coming from!!! Its not the washers losing tension over time or not enough oil. I got a new Solo Air assembly because my old one cracked right at the punch holes ( probably because of riding it with it separated for so long and eventually gave in ), and still the clicking remained in my New Solo Air Assembly...Lame. With the help of Acadian, I re-punched the holes, and the clicking sound is 100% gone!!


So here it is Re-Punch the holes to prevent play at the Bottom part, and the Fork will not click!!! After a year of this crap I have to say Iam very happy:cheers:
 

Acadian

Born Again Newbie
Sep 5, 2001
714
2
Blah Blah and Blah
I can FINALLY 100% confirm that the play were the Punch holes are on the Lower Part of the Solo Assembly Rod is in fact where the clicking sound is coming from!!! Its not the washers losing tension over time or not enough oil. I got a new Solo Air assembly because my old one cracked right at the punch holes ( probably because of riding it with it separated for so long and eventually gave in ), and still the clicking remained in my New Solo Air Assembly...Lame. With the help of Acadian, I re-punched the holes, and the clicking sound is 100% gone!!


So here it is Re-Punch the holes to prevent play at the Bottom part, and the Fork will not click!!! After a year of this crap I have to say Iam very happy:cheers:
:banana::banana:
quiet BoXXer for the win! :cheers:
 

RMboy

Monkey
Dec 1, 2006
879
0
England the Great...
Please say You guys are running some Rubber (lol) protection over your springs ?i found out this was the problem.. I had this prob with my boxxers, i rang TF tuned they said it was the rubbers on the springs winding there way to the top so wind them down so they are evenly spaced...

And woop woop no more clicking

hope this may help some people.
 

Commencal-guy

Monkey
Nov 25, 2007
341
0
Massachusetts, US of A
Please say You guys are running some Rubber (lol) protection over your springs ?i found out this was the problem.. I had this prob with my boxxers, i rang TF tuned they said it was the rubbers on the springs winding there way to the top so wind them down so they are evenly spaced...

And woop woop no more clicking

hope this may help some people.
This was for the Boxxer wc...:bonk: