Ideas for a PNW race series

knucklebutt · Dec 23, 2005

If people are interested in a 4X/mountain cross series, we have three BMX tracks that are open to the idea. Thinking of a 4-5 race series.

Things to help this along:

- Dates (Late spring, early or late summer)that seem to work with the MTB crowd to optimize involvement.

- An idea how many that will ACTUALLY participate to see if pursuing this will be worth while.

I know it's not downhill, but racing is racing!

Fun

Lumberjack can get his hands on some swag and I'm sure others will chip in as well.

Skookum · Dec 23, 2005

wheelchaser said:
There I did it multiple sentences without being a jerk.:mumble: Can you do the same?

You suck.

just kidding i love senior citizens.:heart:

ioscope · Dec 23, 2005

Let's focus on Western washington.

Lumberjack · Dec 23, 2005

Seat time is seat time. No I'm not the pit nanny.

Certified Drunk · Dec 23, 2005

Damn, something POSITIVE on ridedonkey! has the world changed?

Lumberjack · Dec 23, 2005

Certified Drunk said:
Damn, something POSITIVE on ridedonkey! has the world changed?

Didn't you feel the earth move under your feet?

PsychO!1 · Dec 23, 2005

This was done for XC last year....the indie series. From what I gather, it was a huge success.
Now you just need to find a handfull of DH race promoters....good luck. Also finding a DH venue is far more difficult than an XC venue.
I'm not trying to be negative, just realistic.

MotoXmg · Dec 23, 2005

I might be able to come up with an option in Hood River. Our BMX track will be finished in the spring, so maybe a 4-cross and a freeride-inspired downhill on Post Canyon trails???

scottjustscott · Dec 23, 2005

I like the idea of the Indy Series (which I admitally don't know much about but the name sounds cool) but on the 4X tip. One of the big things holding me back from racing again is the up front cost of joining the ABA or NORBA. So I think that if the cost is kept down, then that would be great. Has any one aproached the Marymoore Park folks about building a 4X/BMX track? I remember about 20 years ago people tried getting a BMX track built there and they said that only non-profit activities were alowed there, but now there's a Subway sandwich stand there and also other random vendors too and you can't tell me that those are non-profit. Wheelchaser; if you're serious, I'll PM you my e-mail address.

mplutodh1 · Dec 23, 2005

Eric Ewing threw this idea out there when I was talking to him last year. My understanding was it was his hope to revive the WIM Series in a different way, rather then having R&R do all of the races as they had in the past, have R&R just do the Spokane events, and other promoters put on several others state wide (Western Washington included) to rebuild a 8+ race series which had XC and DH.

I loved the idea at the time, I think it could do a lot for the race scene in WA especially Western Washington.

Here are the problems I see though. First off, as Psycho mentioned, this is easier to do with XC and has been done (indie series) not saying it can't be done with DH but it will be a heck of a battle.

We need more promoters willing to do this and support from the racing community. The support for the Broken Spoke was great this last year, I can't thank Lumberjack, The Speedy Beavers, Eric Ewing, and everyone else who helped out enough. You guys were great! Unfortunately though for me as the race director, I got a lot of flack, I knew I would and I can handle punkass kids who come swear at my face, etc and I did, it's just really overwhelming as a promoter to spend countless hours working on something like that and then have it bad mouthed, trashed, etc. I completely understand why Round and Round got out of the WIM series and MTB events, the flack they got had to just kill any desire they had to keep pushing forward on events.

What I am getting at is, yes a series like this would be great however a good number of folks on this board and in the racing community needs a smack upside the head. The negative crap kills the future of racing, and as we all know, appears to have done that for DH in WA this year. Be positive, offer comments not bitch sessions, when you see something you don't like try and offer a suggestion (well thought out with details) on how to remidy the problem. If you know of areas where the land managers are open to events, suggest them, help work with the promoters to get the details worked out. Lend a hand in ways other then offering to build/ride trail. So many volunteers will only help out on trail projects, which is not even 2% of putting an event on, without a location, permits, insurance, infrastructure, etc you don't have a course to work on. Put the tools down for a bit and help out with something else.

Racing isn't cheap either, everyone needs to realize it is a heck of a financial venture to take on, and a risky one at that. Racers whine about NORBA fees, well if it weren't for NORBA, racing would be $$ too to cover insurance. I honestly don't know how the Indie Series does it with just IMBA as their backing, I wouldn't doubt they have super weak insurance coverage. And sorry folks, good luck getting many people to go out and promote a race with little to no insurance coverage with all the sue happy parents/jerks out there.

Another issue with a series like this is the time commitment. For a series like this you are probably dealing with promoters who have full time jobs and other commitments who are doing this for fun on the side. If it were a business venture and promoters didn't have other time commitments they'd be in a position to put more energy into it.

This year will be rough for me, I'm graduating in June so my time until then is focused on school. After that I am heading back to Seattle and starting a full time career. Also, as I am sure any of you who have tried to promote events realize, it's hard to remember yourself in the whole picture. Last year my relationship with my family, loved ones and especially my girlfriend took a toll. Not to mention my health and overall wellness took a heck of a hit. The commitment to host an event is no small undertaking. This year my family and loved ones come first, myself behind that, school and my new career, and finally promoting.

To wrap it up, a series like this would be great. I can tell you just about everyone involved with the Broken Spoke would be up for working with other promoters to try and make this happen. Feel free to drop me an email if anyone is interested.

knucklebutt · Dec 23, 2005

scottjustscott said:
but on the 4X tip. One of the big things holding me back from racing again is the up front cost of joining the ABA or NORBA. So I think that if the cost is kept down, then that would be great.

I hear you....not much I can do about the $45 ABA membership fee. It's the cost of playing I guess....believe me I understand, that is a day at whistler.

scottjustscott said:
Has any one aproached the Marymoore Park folks about building a 4X/BMX track? I remember about 20 years ago people tried getting a BMX track built there and they said that only non-profit activities were alowed there.....

Yes they have been aproached, two years ago if memory serves. They liked the idea, but like most things public, it will take someone very motivated to make it happen. They want a sactioning body to be involved to help with insurance and monitoring of the track. They will not just let you build it....It might be time for someone to get in contact with them. Sometimes fresh blood, and a different viewpoint can be the best thing to make things happen.

And for some non-relevant info, 99% of BMX tracks in operation today are non-profit.

Lumberjack · Dec 24, 2005

The ABA is a little less expensive than NORBA and that gives us venues to ride before and after summer dh races. There are a few different licenses you have to have to race in Or., Wa and BC so racing does tend to get $$ even before entry fees and gas. If we could get a small mtx series run on the bmx tracks and PA I'ld support it any way I could.

Earthmover · Dec 26, 2005

I help run the Whidbey Mudder race every year, we were part of the Indie series last year. Unfortunately, there is no place on Whidbey to host a DH race, so we'll have to stick with XC. I do think that a DH version of the Indie series would be perfect for Washington, just needs some coordination between promoters. I've never felt that I was getting much for my $$ from NORBA, and keeping them out of the picture is my favorite part of the Indie series. Just for info, also, NORBA is not the end all of race insurance. We've always insured through the local Parks and Rec dept., so that's an option for others to consider. Also, to Pluto, Kevin and others who have promoted races in the past, Thank You. I for one appreciate what you've done. It's too bad that there are bad apples out there, but I think it comes with the territory. We get a few loud complainers every year, and that sucks, but for every one of them, think about those who had a great time, and let that carry you on to next year. I really don't want MTB racing to die in Washington, it's too much fun! If anyone can contribute, please do what you can. Also, I am constantly reading that land managment groups prefer to deal with organizations, and it seems to me that is what we (Washington cyclists of all disciplines) need to form a powerful group to represent us in a professional manner. Any thoughts??

holliswood · Dec 26, 2005

MotoXmg said:
I might be able to come up with an option in Hood River. Our BMX track will be finished in the spring, so maybe a 4-cross and a freeride-inspired downhill on Post Canyon trails???

I am liking this guys idea! Some events at Post Canyon would rule. A little free ride, a little dh.

holliswood · Dec 26, 2005

Does anyones grandpappy or family have some land wich they could let us build a course or two and have weekly or bi- weekly races. Private land might be one alternative as long as the land owner could work with a group or a person who could handle doing the events and also and most importantly get insurance to cover the promoter and the land owner. There are several series like this in Nor Cal and So Cal but the land is private and insured in case some goofball comes up short on a double and wants to blame someone rather than himself.

If we could get something like this rolling on a small scale and keep it grassroots like some other past events it would be KILLA!

Example:::::::Kevin (sasquatch) Ryans races, The Peaks series they used to hold, Jason (hunt to live, live to hunt) Mosely's PA events.
These guys have put on and are still putting on great events.
clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap! :thumb:

mplutodh1 · Dec 26, 2005

Earthmover said:
Any thoughts??

Not sure who all the promoters are on here, I know there are a few of us. Maybe just all of us discsussing via email at first to see what everyones thoughts are on working together. Possibly putting together some type of PacNW Racing Committee, a board of promoters and riders working together to further racing in the region?

I'm just rattling off thoughts but meeting once a month type of thing, constant communication via email/phone/etc working together to share experiences with permiting, insurance, etc.

I'd be up for helping get a ball rolling with something like this, just want to know there is interest among promoters and riders.

So with that, anyone who would be interested email me matt@brokenspokefest.com and let me know what your thoughts are. If you'd be interested and what role you'd possibly be interested in. I can put together a quick email list and bounce some ideas off everyone.

MotoXmg · Dec 27, 2005

holliswood said:
I am liking this guys idea! Some events at Post Canyon would rule. A little free ride, a little dh.

Let me know what you Monkeys think. If there is enough interest, I can start talking to Mountain View Cycles about a potential sponsorship, as well as hooking up with some manufacturers. I imagine it will take a while to plan.

scottjustscott · Dec 27, 2005

I seem to remember doing a XC series about 10 years ago down in the Black Diamind area that was on some private land. Anyone could race and you didn't need a NORBA license.

riverside73 · Dec 27, 2005

mplutodh1 said:
Not sure who all the promoters are on here, I know there are a few of us. Maybe just all of us discsussing via email at first to see what everyones thoughts are on working together. Possibly putting together some type of PacNW Racing Committee, a board of promoters and riders working together to further racing in the region?

I'm just rattling off thoughts but meeting once a month type of thing, constant communication via email/phone/etc working together to share experiences with permiting, insurance, etc.

I'd be up for helping get a ball rolling with something like this, just want to know there is interest among promoters and riders.

So with that, anyone who would be interested email me matt@brokenspokefest.com and let me know what your thoughts are. If you'd be interested and what role you'd possibly be interested in. I can put together a quick email list and bounce some ideas off everyone.

While I am kind of out of the promoting business and into the timing business, I would stay involved with this any way that I could. I am going to have my hands full with the timing biz and my rugrats, but will definitely do what I can to help. I don't want to see MTB Racing die here either because if I ever get a weekend off...I might get to have some fun!!!

Matt, let me know what I can do!

SuperSlow · Dec 27, 2005

why not just do alleycat style dh races?

MotoXmg · Dec 27, 2005

SuperSlow said:
why not just do alleycat style dh races?

Alleycat?? What the heck is that??

scottjustscott · Dec 27, 2005

What about urban 4X & DH racing? Has anyone seen footage of the Red Bull Road Rage?

SuperSlow · Dec 27, 2005

MotoXmg said:
Alleycat?? What the heck is that??

alleycat racing is an illegalish scavengerhunt type of racing al la bike messengers

http://www.digave.com/videos/

You could do something like this non sanctioned, week to week different location each week. 10$ entry pay 3 deep, all you need is a stop watch and 2 radios

mplutodh1 · Dec 28, 2005

SuperSlow said:
alleycat racing is an illegalish scavengerhunt type of racing al la bike messengers

http://www.digave.com/videos/

You could do something like this non sanctioned, week to week different location each week. 10$ entry pay 3 deep, all you need is a stop watch and 2 radios

But where? Stuff like this can get mountain bikers kicked off land if the land manager/owner finds out. All it takes is one incident.

evilbob · Dec 28, 2005

SuperSlow said:
alleycat racing is an illegalish scavengerhunt type of racing al la bike messengers

http://www.digave.com/videos/

You could do something like this non sanctioned, week to week different location each week. 10$ entry pay 3 deep, all you need is a stop watch and 2 radios

This is exactly what we don't need. Talk about a black eye to the image. Doing this in the wrong place just one time could get all kinds of things shut down. Bad idea, I side with mplutodh1 on this. Please don't mention this again, others who hold the keys to let us on or lock us off land come to (sometimes) sites like this to kind of get an feel for what we are collectively up to. Image sometimes is everything.

evilbob · Dec 28, 2005

Just a thought about the MC clubs out there. Maybe some of us on the different teams should talk with a few of the MC clubs. Find out how they do there event......planning, permission, insurance, support and inter club race series. Maybe, just an idea but maybe we do some support work at some of thier events and they help us with some of ours. Just a thought.......

trailhacker · Dec 28, 2005

mplutodh1 said:
But where? Stuff like this can get mountain bikers kicked off land if the land manager/owner finds out. All it takes is one incident.

I could have misunderstood, but I think what he is refering to is a more "urban" type event, like in the city?

oly · Dec 28, 2005

I think we should just have skidding contests instead of racing. All you need is a parking lot, or sidewalk, a run in, and some speed.. oh and good brakes mixed with a little style.........

SuperSlow · Dec 28, 2005

sounds great....

alley cat racing is only illegal because people are breaking traffic laws. Why not have a big group ride that is timed? If you think this is such a bad idea maybe you shouldnt be riding your bike where you are right? Hold keys? Dont be lazy ride to the top

Ideas for a PNW race series

Chimp

Chimp

bikey's is cool

Turbo Monkey

Monkey

SVT-Lightning

Monkey

Monkey

Chimp

Monkey

Monkey

Chimp

Monkey

Chimp

Monkey

Monkey

Monkey

Chimp

Monkey

Monkey

Monkey

Chimp

Monkey

Monkey

Monkey

Monkey

Monkey

Turbo Monkey

skin cooker for the hive

Monkey