[MikeD]

NEW YORK (AP) _ A 23-year-old man was arrested Friday on hate-crime charges after he threw a Quran in a toilet at Pace University on two separate occasions, police said.

Stanislav Shmulevich of Brooklyn was arrested on charges of criminal mischief and aggravated harassment, both hate crimes, police said. It was unclear if he was a student at the school. A message left at the Shmulevich home was not immediately returned.

The Islamic holy book was found in a toilet at Pace's lower Manhattan campus by a teacher on Oct. 13. A student discovered another book in a toilet on Nov. 21, police said.

Muslim activists had called on Pace University to crack down on hate crimes after the incidents. As a result, the university said it would offer sensitivity training to its students.

The school was accused by Muslim students of not taking the incident seriously enough at first. Pace classified the first desecration of the holy book as an act of vandalism, but university officials later reversed themselves and referred the incident to the New York Police Department's hate crimes unit.

-----

This is just unfathomable. A book has rights? Saying/demonstrating that you disrespect or dislike a religion or book is a hate crime?? Oh, wait, it's only a crime when it's a minority that is quick to toss out the victim label and even quicker to demand special rights in a larger society, while trying to infringe on anyone else's right to publically criticize them.

People calling for violence in mass rallies against individuals and countries aren't arrested for hate crimes here, but this guy is arrested because he pissed on a book?

I think I might stuff a Koran down a toilet here in the Bay. With a Bible alongside for company. And a stick figure of Mohammed. Actually, that might damage public property and make me a criminal. Perhaps I'll just collect a big jar of old piss and make a home aquarium.

This is a fascinating and infuriating intersection of individual rights versus minority protection. I sure hope the ACLU and the assorted liberals come down on the correct side of this argument and push for actual freedom, not coddling of some particular sensitivity... especially one which will try and use 'multiculturalism' against itself so that it can achieve a monotheism, I mean, culturalism.

How the **** is this country getting to this point??

MD

 

[luelling]

I'm going to take pictures of me pooping on the Koran, Bible and Book of Morman.....think that would piss some ppl off? There is no way this will hold up, its freedom of speech. He is making an "artistic" statement. How can this be viewed differently than flag burning?

 

[V-Dub GTI]

Im going to burn a Quran, then piss in the ashes.

 

[fluff]

Why, so that you piss people off in order to show how pissed off you are? What's the logic here people?

After all, you guys would just love it if they crapped on your flag.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Why, so that you piss people off in order to show how pissed off you are? What's the logic here people?

After all, you guys would just love it if they crapped on your flag.

People can get pissed, but you dont get arrested for burning the flag.

 

[valve bouncer]

Why, so that you piss people off in order to show how pissed off you are? What's the logic here people?

After all, you guys would just love it if they crapped on your flag.

Those burning crosses are just wood and and a gallon of kerosene. Just meaningless really, why should people worry about stuff like that.

 

[Silver]

Those burning crosses are just wood and and a gallon of kerosene. Just meaningless really, why should people worry about stuff like that.

I don't. I do worry about it when they get burned on a black person's lawn though.

 

[Silver]

NEW YORK (AP)
Stanislav Shmulevich of Brooklyn was arrested on charges of criminal mischief and aggravated harassment, both hate crimes, police said. It was unclear if he was a student at the school. A message left at the Shmulevich home was not immediately returned.

Totally ridiculous. I'm sure the ACLU will defend the guy on this one. They damn well better.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

There's an undefinable line here. Back when I worked at Draper Labs, Vietnam protest era, somebody at work posted a big American flag. I responded by posting a dictionary definition of totem and they got bent way out of shape.

People take symbols too seriously at times...

 

[valve bouncer]

I don't. I do worry about it when they get burned on a black person's lawn though.

All that ash is really good for the garden though.

 

[MikeD]

Well, the comparison to a burning cross is an interesting one. Here's my take:

-The burning cross itself is a symbol and should be protected speech.

HOWEVER, speech that incites violence is not protected, nor should it be. The burning cross might, under many circumstances, be part of/itself be an incitement to violence. So it's a contextual issue.

Edit: Yeah, just like Silver said.

 

[Noisy]

HOWEVER, speech that incites violence is not protected, nor should it be. The burning cross might, under many circumstances, be part of/itself be an incitement to violence. So it's a contextual issue.

I completely agree. You definatley raise valid points, its the idiots talking about pissing/crapping on the Quran like it is some sort of joke that really annoy me.

 

[MikeD]

What's bigoted, ignorant, or xenophobic about protecting freedom of speech for all Americans? You have a right to piss, ****, burn, or otherwise desecrate a flag, a bible, a torah, a Tibetan book of the dead, a photo of George Bush, or anything else you want to.

But this guy gets arrested because people are afraid of offending a particular minority group. If he was arrested for (apparently) stealing the book and perhaps for criminal mischief in clogging a school's toilet, I could live with that. But to be arrested for the content of his speech? Or even worse, his beliefs...because his speech was pretty much not a public act.

But yeah, I'm a hateful person because I think the First Amendment is perhaps important. Any Muslim American should think the same thing I do if, he or she is really American. They don't have to like the content of his speech. I don't...I think it's counterproductive and a little lame. But I will support his rights to the very end.

So how about you just **** off yourself, you little Eichmann?

 

[Noisy]

What's bigoted, ignorant, or xenophobic about protecting freedom of speech for all Americans? You have a right to piss, ****, burn, or otherwise desecrate a flag, a bible, a torah, a Tibetan book of the dead, a photo of George Bush, or anything else you want to.

But this guy gets arrested because people are afraid of offending a particular minority group. If he was arrested for (apparently) stealing the book and perhaps for criminal mischief in clogging a school's toilet, I could live with that. But to be arrested for the content of his speech? Or even worse, his beliefs...because his speech was pretty much not a public act.

But yeah, I'm a hateful person because I think the First Amendment is perhaps important. Any Muslim American should think the same thing I do if, he or she is really American. They don't have to like the content of his speech. I don't...I think it's counterproductive and a little lame. But I will support his rights to the very end.

So how about you just **** off yourself, you little Eichmann?

its not your points i am objecting to.

 

[Westy]

I'm sure all of you would feel different if you had explosive diarrhea and at the last minute found the crapper was clogged up by the quran.

 

[MikeD]

Well, I mentioned taking a piss on Koran myself, so you'll have to count me among the 'idiots'...

I honestly think every conscionable student at Pace should buy their own copy and publicly desecrate it. They should show the cowardly administration who sent this to the NYPD hate crimes unit how wrong they are, and they should bring a Constitutional tort against the NYPD on grounds of a first amendment violation.

I'm a more than little embarrassed at whatever supervisor at the PD opened a case on this and whatever prosecutor took this case.

 

[MikeD]

I'm sure all of you would feel different if you had explosive diarrhea and at the last minute found the crapper was clogged up by the quran.

Indeed. And on those grounds the dude should be charged with criminal mischief or vandalism. It wasn't even his book, much less his plumbing.

I'm sure you wouldn't enjoy the resulting fatwah, either...

 

[$tinkle]

although i would be offended if the bible were flushed, i do not believe the correct response would be judicial action.

How the **** is this country getting to this point??

one precedent at a time

a couple years back - in the bay area - when the koran was stocked with other holy books, it was always the top shelf. once made public, project mayhem was cued. it was put upside down, or re-shelved next to anton lavey, the bhagavad-gita, kama sutra, and barney. point is, there are other more imaginative responses than making the first perceived steps toward a theocracy

 

[ATOMICFIREBALL]

So, i guess taking a piss in the footbaths at the airport would "piss" them off too !!!

 

[luelling]

HOWEVER, speech that incites violence is not protected, nor should it be. The burning cross might, under many circumstances, be part of/itself be an incitement to violence. So it's a contextual issue.

I completely agree. You definatley raise valid points, its the idiots talking about pissing/crapping on the Quran like it is some sort of joke that really annoy me.

Flag burning has incited violence, yet is legal

 

[Silver]

Flag burning has incited violence, yet is legal

Really? Besides a guy lighting himself on fire (I always find that funny...yes Einstein, nylon goes up really fast) I'm hard pressed to come up with a time where burning a flag incited violence in the US.

You may make a case that it's incited violence against US interests in other countries, but what are you going to do? You can't make, much less enforce a law that says it's illegal for another country to burn the US flag.

 

[blue]

Jeebus...I really could give a flying fvck what anyone does with anyone else religious artifacts, but the title of this thread is just to extract a rise from people. Or maybe I'm being too nice and it's just a touch of pent up xenophobia showing through...

lthumbsdown:

 

[ohio]

I completely agree. You definatley raise valid points, its the idiots talking about pissing/crapping on the Quran like it is some sort of joke that really annoy me.

If the intent is to reinforce the right to free speech, how is repeating this act in any way a demonstration of "bigotry, ignorance or xenophobia?" Poor taste, maybe. Xenophobia, no.

edit: just realized there's a whole page 2. guess the point's already been made.

 

[ohio]

I will say the title is poorly chosen. On any college campus there are numerous groups that would react this way if someone expressed a dislike for their cause/beliefs/actions in an ugly way. They're all idiots.

 

[MMike]

I will say the title is poorly chosen. On any college campus there are numerous groups that would react this way if someone expressed a dislike for their cause/beliefs/actions in an ugly way. They're all idiots.

They're probably puerto rican....or jews.

 

[MikeD]

Flag burning has incited violence, yet is legal

Yelling "fire" when it doesn't cause chaos is legal. Yelling "fire" when it causes unwarranted danger to people isn't legal.

I'd also like to hear of a single substantiated case where burning a flag was incitement to violence, simply because I've never heard of one...
---
Ohio, yeah, maybe the thread title was poorly chosen...it was in reaction to Opie's thread title, really.

But the problem's not necessarily with the campus groups overreacting...they can do that just fine...it's with the government's accession to their absurd demands for (il)legal action.

 

[LordOpie]

Ohio, yeah, maybe the thread title was poorly chosen...it was in reaction to Opie's thread title, really.

oh right, blame the jew.

et tu MikeD?

 

[$tinkle]

On any college campus there are numerous groups that would react this way if someone expressed a dislike for their cause/beliefs/actions in an ugly way. They're all idiots.

there's a little history from 2 yrs ago which bears remembering: mohammed was defiled in cartoons in the danish press (actually it turned out to be exaggerated & even concocted, but no matter), and we saw the reaction (vice "response") was not limited to strongly worded letters & lawsuits. there was violent reaction, worldwide.

only if i choose to ignore this "wound fresh in the minds of the pious" would i think this were the same flavor as other slights against the latest minority group.

i would defer to our resident ACLU charter member, silver, to find out whether we can expect them to represent the koranic offender

 

[Silver]

there was violent reaction, worldwide.

Mostly in backassward Muslim countries though, wasn't it? And hey, if they want to riot and kill their own co-religionists, I'm not going to lose too much sleep over it.

 

[MikeD]

et tu MikeD?

Just giving context. I stand by our right to free speech; after all, the Zionist Overlord Government ensures it for us.

 

[MikeD]

Mostly in backassward Muslim countries though, wasn't it? And hey, if they want to riot and kill their own co-religionists, I'm not going to lose too much sleep over it.

No, actually, all over Europe and even in the US.

I'm going to ask Stinkle to post that great political cartoon again, since it's topical and I can't ever find it. You know which one I mean.

 

[Silver]

I guess in a way blaming the Jew for this thread is entirely appropriate: Stanislav Shmulevich? Russian Jew, no?

 

[MikeD]

This is where that "Law and Order" sound would be approriate.

DUH-Dum!

 

[$tinkle]

I'm going to ask Stinkle to post that great political cartoon again, since it's topical and I can't ever find it. You know which one I mean.

http://www.zombietime.com/mohammed_image_archive/extreme_mohammed/

not sure which one you mean, but this should suffice.

 

[MikeD]

Nah, there's the one of the muslim and the danish cartoonist both painting on a wall...muslim's yelling about how offensive the cartoon is...

 

[$tinkle]

more of the same: http://moparody.blogspot.com/

 

[$tinkle]

oh right, blame the jew.

et tu MikeD?

man, you guys sure are busy:

Sudan: Jews behind Darfur conflict

 

[LordOpie]

man, you guys sure are busy:

Sudan: Jews behind Darfur conflict

That's a strange article.

It's like saying that some people will care for the dogs not killed by Vick and blaming them for dog fighting. Or did I misunderstand something, again?

 

[fluff]

Nah, there's the one of the muslim and the danish cartoonist both painting on a wall...muslim's yelling about how offensive the cartoon is...

That does illustrate another point - remember the outrage caused by Iran's Holocaust-denial conference?

It's also an criminal offence in some European countries to say that Hitler did not kill 6 million Jews.

(And in France you cannot legally deny that Turkey perpetrated genocide against the Armenians.)

 

[fluff]

That's a strange article.

It's like saying that some people will care for the dogs not killed by Vick and blaming them for dog fighting. Or did I misunderstand something, again?

You missed the link between the Global Jewisy Conspiracy and the media representation by the West of the deaths in Darfur. The guy in the article says it's all lies perpetrated by the GJC.