Intrawest has been sold to a private investment group.
Lets hope they dont screw up a good thing!
Lets hope they dont screw up a good thing!
Intrawest, owner of Whistler, Snowshoe has been sold
- Thread starter Msisle Dad
- Start date
So Whistler and Snowshoe were sold to the same guy? Or just Snowshoe was sold?
wow. intrawest is a HUUUUUUUGE corporation. i wonder what the price tag was. Links to a news article?
Compared to what? Maybe at Whistler, but all the other mountains owned by these guys might be shut down for MTB. It's an investment group, who will only look at the bottom line. If MTB is not profitable, it could be cut to please the shareholders. I'm not saying it will happen, but it is possible.Bicyclist said:
Intrawest owns (or owned i guess):
Blue Mountain, ON
CMH Heli-Ski/Hike, BC
Copper, CO
Mammoth, CA
Mountain Creek, NJ
Panorama Mountain Village, BC
Snowshoe Mountain, WV
Stratton, VT
The Village at Squaw Valley, CA
Tremblant, QC
Whistler Blackcomb, BC
Winter Park, CO
Fortress Investment Group LLC is the buyer. Fortress has a web page which states its approach to managing its investments:
http://www.fortressinv.com/site_content.aspx?s=8
From the web page description it's not clear whether they would likely make significant changes in Intrawest's current business holdings.
http://www.fortressinv.com/site_content.aspx?s=8
From the web page description it's not clear whether they would likely make significant changes in Intrawest's current business holdings.
Man sweet I finally got to buy Intrawest - Whistler is mine minE miNE mINE MINE.
Just like when Cartman bought his own amusement park I will ride Whistler by my self. No more lift lines.
Just like when Cartman bought his own amusement park I will ride Whistler by my self. No more lift lines.
Anyone know if they are listed on the American Stock Exhange? If so, what is their Symbol?particle bored said:
Whitetail closed here when it was sold........the new group wasn't into the MTB scene....
Does intrawest own ALL of whistler? I know they only own 49% of mammoth, snowmass is also ran/owned or w/e by intrawest
A good indicator of change will be if they plan on keeping the upper level Intrawest management. If they do keep them on (or most stay), then don't expect changes, if they axe a ton of then, expect changes.
Tremblant was sold months ago BTW.
Also, it's a holding company selling to another holdings company. I doubt much will change.
Also, it's a holding company selling to another holdings company. I doubt much will change.
Were unpprofitable mountains kept open before? I doubt Whistler was ever run as a charity for MTb'ersMunster said:
Transcend said:
Cant agree, they are a private equity (hedge fund) manager. They will seek to maximize the return on investment. That is not to say that MTB would remain in their business plan.
C'mon guys. This trend of private equity companies buying out publicly traded companies is nothing new- it's the latest rage in upper management, and in some ways is a flashback to the leveraged buyout rage back in the 80's.
Realistically, this should have zero effect on the day-to-day running of the company. I'd guess that the upper management won't change a great deal either. The most likely thing we'll see is more acquisitions by Intrawest, not divestment... developing new off-season revenue streams with limited costs (ie, mountain biking) is a good thing.
Realistically, this should have zero effect on the day-to-day running of the company. I'd guess that the upper management won't change a great deal either. The most likely thing we'll see is more acquisitions by Intrawest, not divestment... developing new off-season revenue streams with limited costs (ie, mountain biking) is a good thing.
Probably not, but I would speculate that smaller hills run at break-even. Whistler isn't the only place out there, and no doubt MTB is safe there. Just e-spuculation, but a new owner may want to put off-season resources/manpower into upgrading /expanding for ski season, rather than running a lift for MTBers.gemini2k said:
Didn't know about Tremblant. Last time I paid attention (4 years ago?), they opened for Q-Cup race weekend only and were closed to DH riders, based on "environmental" damage. What's the latest on them now?
Fortress is a private equity investor, but there MO over the last several years is not one of slash and burn liquidations. They are also a higher risk investor as this purchase indicates. Of course they will seek to maximize profits - do you think that intrawest was in the game not too??? Seems to me that the trend intrawest came up with was to attract more people to the mountain in the off-season and I think Snowshoe and certainly Whistler have shown that there "formula" with regard to biking works for this. I would expect Intrawest management to stay on and things to continue as ususal for now. What is scary is that Fortress will build this Asset to sell it for a lot more then they bought it for. As a whole that is fine, it's when they start selling mountains individually that we need to worry. As a stand alone investment of a single mountain I think it's far more realistic that MTB gets shut down as profits may look minimal and management sees more risk vs. reward. Until then I believe fortress will keep the status que and pay down corporate debt Intrawest has accumulated all while thier assets increase in value.Msisle Dad said:
I am absolutely sure that mtb will not be affected at whistler. In fact, if anything, the new guys might try to emulate the success that whistler has, at some of the other resorts.
Ski biz is down significantly over the entire U.S. Retail sales are down, skier visits are down. For the last two years, whistler (mountain and village) have been buiser and done more biz in the summer than winter. The two busiest days at the mountain have been the two prior Crankworks events.
If you add in the fact that skiing is entirely weather dependant, and if you believe science, the weather will only be getting warmer, ski resorts had better start nurturing some summer biz real quick. (oh yea, it is also significantly cheaper to run a mountain in the summer vs. the winter.
Ski biz is down significantly over the entire U.S. Retail sales are down, skier visits are down. For the last two years, whistler (mountain and village) have been buiser and done more biz in the summer than winter. The two busiest days at the mountain have been the two prior Crankworks events.
If you add in the fact that skiing is entirely weather dependant, and if you believe science, the weather will only be getting warmer, ski resorts had better start nurturing some summer biz real quick. (oh yea, it is also significantly cheaper to run a mountain in the summer vs. the winter.
Not to mention the investment Whistler has already made for the "off" season.
Whatta bunch of chicken littles!
Whatta bunch of chicken littles!
Not arguing or doubting, but do you have anything to back that up?davep said:
Its been a while since I was there in the winter but I haven't been up there a day in the summer that was anything close to a day in the winter?
trailhacker said:
10,000 people for slopestyle last year, nearly 15,000 this year. i'd say thats pretty damn good.
jbogner said:
my only regret.... is... having bone-itis!
ACK!
LOL. Do the Safety Dance!jonKranked said:
Munster said:
when reputation returns i owe you some green for getting the reference!
You're out of your mind.davep said:
kidwoo said:
i find it hard to believe too, but i'm sure its starting to become a close rival in terms of revenue generator. whistler is the primier bike park in the world, and they have the worlds best slopestyle event (arguably). this year the duration of the festival was doubled to 8 days. gotta be doin' something right for things like that to happen.
last time I looked there isn't a mountain in the world that can move more MTBers than skiers. The income demographic alone is the crusher. Ski revenue is enough to cover 9 1/2 months of inactivity for Sugar Mtn here in NC. They're in the Southeast. I refuse to believe that crap you just spouted. My buddy is in charge of retail for a major chain of retail ski shops...they are FAR from a slowdown.
Lame...lame...lame....
Could biker revenue surpass skier revenue at ski resorts...damn near impossible. Could biker revenue offset losses during warmer months...maybe.
Lame...lame...lame....
Could biker revenue surpass skier revenue at ski resorts...damn near impossible. Could biker revenue offset losses during warmer months...maybe.
jonKranked said:
Do you have any idea how many similar snow based comps whistler/blackcomb has during the winter? One big bike event won't touch crowds generated throughout winter. It's hard to believe because it's wrong.
I live in a ski town and one of my best friends up here manages both a snowboard shop and a bike shop. The two aren't even remotely close in revenue. Multiply that times a big interwest village. Just walk around next time you're up there and count the bike shops. Four last time I looked. Then look around at who's selling soft goods and pulls out the skis and snowboards in winter. Almost half the village retail space not including restaurants.
Whistler is bike heaven but like sanjuro said, the population base of bikers is nowhere near what skiing and snowboarding creates. Your average joe beginner won't take a bike trip to whistler. Your average joe beginner skier/snowboarder PLUS FAMILY regularly will visit mountains in winter. Groomed ski slopes will always be more accessible to people than bike trails with pointy rocks on them.
You see the line at fitzsimmons lift in summer. Put that crowd at the bottom of every lift on the hill on an average weekend in the winter.
I heard one good winter day at Mammoth makes as much as the entire bike season.
Of course, I think money is to be made in the summer, and I could argue that Whistler, the ski mountain, is less famous the Whistler, the mountain bike park; and the prestige from DH carries over to the winter.
I would hope that is worth maintaining mountain biking there....
Of course, I think money is to be made in the summer, and I could argue that Whistler, the ski mountain, is less famous the Whistler, the mountain bike park; and the prestige from DH carries over to the winter.
I would hope that is worth maintaining mountain biking there....
sanjuro said:
That's a good point........there's competition in winter with other mountains......but still......the housing at whistler exist because it was built for winter. There's no denying that, and that's when the crowds come.
Yeah they make money in the bike park but to believe for a second that it trumps winter revenues is delusional.
I don't think the bike park program is going anywhere. It makes more money than no bike park. If that weren't the case, it wouldn't be expanding every year.
I believe biking has provided the largest -single day- for Whistler, but the revenue from the biking season overall does not come close to the revenue from the winter season... I remember reading that as well...
I did a double-take at first, but I think they explained it as the largest single-day "profit," since winter operations might be larger in revenue terms, but their operating expenses are far larger as well...
I did a double-take at first, but I think they explained it as the largest single-day "profit," since winter operations might be larger in revenue terms, but their operating expenses are far larger as well...
jbogner said:
True dat. It's expensive to run ski lifts. I believe mountain operations but not the village. Even crankworx is still an average winter weekend. Even more so considering holiday periods.
to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if for '05 the summer did eclipse in income (revenue after expenses).
http://www.skipressworld.com/us/en/daily_news/2005/05/intrawest_q3_acquisitions_offset_disastrous_nw_winter.html?cat=Finance
http://www.skipressworld.com/us/en/daily_news/2005/05/intrawest_q3_acquisitions_offset_disastrous_nw_winter.html?cat=Finance
whistler had a *bad* winter in '05, and who knows, maybe the mtb income was higher... would be nice.
Do you guys ski?
Curious to see if this will affect the future of
Mountain Creek/Diablo Freeride Park once the lease is up in 2008.
Intrawest owns that resort at well........Time will tell.
Mountain Creek/Diablo Freeride Park once the lease is up in 2008.
Intrawest owns that resort at well........Time will tell.