Baloney. You invite the scumbags TO YOUR OWN HOUSE!
Is DH racing dying?
- Thread starter slyfink
- Start date
Was wishing I cold have made it last night. Would have been a good time.
That is the biggest reason I haven't been riding/racing DH in the last year. I used to spend well over 200 dollars a race weekend and 7-10 hours of driving for maybe a total of 1-1.5 hours on the bike. And that doesn't count all the money on a specialized bike that only goes downhill. It's easier for me to justify going to an enduro race where I'll spend at least 3x the amount of time on my bike and I can use the same bike that I ride on my local trails. I didn't get tired of racing DH, I just got tired of everything that came along with riding DH. If I lived closer to DH trails or resorts and/or my income doubled I would probably get back into DH.
Anyone recall when DH really hit it's high point in the 90's. Plenty in the XC world just calling it fashion.
On the discussion of timing have you ever paid for and ridden in an event other than XC that was reliant on stop watch and paper? Any that I have done the results were a mess and took many many hours to compile and still errors.
You still need communication from top of course to bottom. On the mountain we use radios have failed us and cell service sucks. Problems that could be fixed with money, but more or less money thank SI? Doesn't matter as you still have paper and a stopwatch.
I know. What an unlawful, godless, chaotic inferno.
Where I used to race DH we'd get up to 130 entrants, I think they're at 30-40 now but Enduro at the same place had to stop taking entries at 250, Enduro is the new crossfit(but much much better)!
God I wish a guy who used to post here under DRB was still paying attention.
His truck got pretty ****ed up with multiple bikes lost.
We're 4 pages deep and no one is reading anymore, can we make fun of the girl who wrote that piece now?
She seems to be confusing what goes on locally with what gee atherton thinks about the next wc round.
I don't know what planet she grew up on but this pretty much describes the casual expert/semipro masses that I used to hang out with who were at a dh race pretty much every weekend there was one.
She seems to be confusing what goes on locally with what gee atherton thinks about the next wc round.
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"Enduro is the new crossfit"
Best line ever
I raced DH at a pro level for a few years with it bringing me to Europe to live. I loved it. Still do, but it went kinda stale for me. Then I rediscovered mountainbiking as it was when I started. Shorter travel bikes brought that feeling of excitement back to me. The ability to access some insanely beautiful areas void of crowds and the sheer adrenalin rush of a descent that wouldn't have produced the same feeling on a DH bike. This doesn't answer the original poster's question, but on a personal level it does.
tl;dr - smaller bikes brought the buzz back for me.
tl;dr - smaller bikes brought the buzz back for me.
Yup same here, bought a big bike just for racing and didn't enjoy it and I'm now back on a hardtail loving life.
Seems there is a hardtail category in our Enduro series so I may see what all the fuss is aboot.
he he.. gotta admit, when I clicked on the link and read the author was a chick I didn't bother reading it at all.
Did you look at her profile picture on pinkbike id let her read her article to me if she was wearing a wet t-shirt
She is also selling her dh bike maybe she is so self consumed that her selling her bike is how she came up with less people are dh'ing
I agree that the time it takes to dedicate a weekend to one trail really sucks, and the entry fees coupled with lodging, gas, food, beer, etc really take a toll. Especially if the race is at a mountain that doesn't have a park or other trails to ride. Then throw sh!tty weather on top of that, and forget about it, for me anyway. I still love racing at mountains out here like Mt Creek, Jiminy Peak, Attitash, even Mt Snow and Killington where you can do a couple practice runs on the course, then hit up a few other runs in between practice runs. Places like Pats Peak and other mountains that only have the race trail to ride, on top of a painfully slow lift and huge lift lines, just don't do it for me anymore. Although Pats peak does have a 2 race run format, which I think is a big plus at a race. Like someone said earlier, it's a lot of time/money to invest to have a crash/mechanical F up your one run. Something else I've wondered, especially with trenduro all the rage now, why not do 2 or 3 DH runs on different trails? Combine the times. A couple different style trails? Maybe something more tech, and one geared toward the bike park trend. It certainly would help the inevitable bottlenecks on practice runs. It seems to work logistically for the enduro races. I know the extra timing equipment and staff wouldn't help the already high entry fees though.
To me it seems like people want to race what they ride on a regular basis..
Ten years ago you would see tons of trucks stacked with dh bikes shuttling every weekend...now not so much..
I think allot of it has to do with the fact that the "enduro" bikes are so capable nowadays...you can spend an hour in the car to shuttle a trail or you can spend slightly longer and pedal up, getting exercise at the same time..
10 years ago any bike that you could pedal up on wasnt any fun to ride back down...now that the trailbikes are so much fun to descend on I think less and less people will opt for a type of riding that requires you to spend more time driving than riding (if you dont live near a resort)
Ten years ago you would see tons of trucks stacked with dh bikes shuttling every weekend...now not so much..
I think allot of it has to do with the fact that the "enduro" bikes are so capable nowadays...you can spend an hour in the car to shuttle a trail or you can spend slightly longer and pedal up, getting exercise at the same time..
10 years ago any bike that you could pedal up on wasnt any fun to ride back down...now that the trailbikes are so much fun to descend on I think less and less people will opt for a type of riding that requires you to spend more time driving than riding (if you dont live near a resort)
waxing and waning. #enduro is going to sponge up all the washed up/ex DH racers, then they're going to discover that they also can't win just by showing up to those events either, as the guys who train extensively mop the floor with them. Then they head back to DH.
DH racing was always about the fun of the weekend, to me. Hanging out with a decent group of people, drinking ****ty beer, working on bikes. I never did well at racing, and pretty much didn't race at all last year after competing in several races the year before...but I still love riding DH, and always have. Nothing is more fun than getting to ride downhill all day without having to climb.
As for DH dying, the eastern states cup has now split into two separate but equal race series for mid-atlantic and new england. that's growing, not dying. WCs are being televised via rad balls on pinkbike....huge amounts of coverage....I just think enduro is taking some of the spotlight...
DH racing was always about the fun of the weekend, to me. Hanging out with a decent group of people, drinking ****ty beer, working on bikes. I never did well at racing, and pretty much didn't race at all last year after competing in several races the year before...but I still love riding DH, and always have. Nothing is more fun than getting to ride downhill all day without having to climb.
As for DH dying, the eastern states cup has now split into two separate but equal race series for mid-atlantic and new england. that's growing, not dying. WCs are being televised via rad balls on pinkbike....huge amounts of coverage....I just think enduro is taking some of the spotlight...
Josh bryceland saving dh racing from those that try to kill it.
@ 3:00 in
@ 3:00 in
That's definitely a big factor for me. When I got really serious about mountain biking the most technologically (fun) products were mostly in the big bike/DH category. Slowly all the tech has made it's way into shorter travel, lighter and better fitting trail bikes. Mid-level Trail bikes today have better geometry and technology than top of the line DH bikes did 10 years ago.
for me its mixed, since I got a proper small bike with decent angles while Living in Vancouver I have probably spent the vast majority of my bike time on the small bike BUT I have never got the same Buzz on the small bike as on a DH bike going FLAT out,
As for racing the Irish enduro series is in its third year, selling out a month or 2 in advance and going very well, that said there's a solid amount of riders not happy with the series, have copped on to how DH is a LOT more social than enduro (in an enduro races your spinning aorund with the same 20lads for most of it) and as the entry costs the same you get more "fun bike time" for your buck (and don't say climbing is fun because its only a means to get to the top) there is a lot of riders coming back to DH races that we haven't seen in years.
is DH dead, as long as the riders are having Fun at the races and the courses keep changing and evolving, far from it. Enduro will/has taken over as the mass participation sport for various reasons but DH is still a different beast, much more intense and scary!
As for racing the Irish enduro series is in its third year, selling out a month or 2 in advance and going very well, that said there's a solid amount of riders not happy with the series, have copped on to how DH is a LOT more social than enduro (in an enduro races your spinning aorund with the same 20lads for most of it) and as the entry costs the same you get more "fun bike time" for your buck (and don't say climbing is fun because its only a means to get to the top) there is a lot of riders coming back to DH races that we haven't seen in years.
is DH dead, as long as the riders are having Fun at the races and the courses keep changing and evolving, far from it. Enduro will/has taken over as the mass participation sport for various reasons but DH is still a different beast, much more intense and scary!
no argument there, should I name, schladaming, maribor, champery, Val'disere, etc etc are the tracks that inspire all DH riders everywhere, steep, rough, long and most of all technical the whole way down. we need more of these. UCI please listen!!!!!!!!
Its not THAT expensive to run a big race, the UCI are taking the proverbial and charging crazy money to hold an event.
the EWS are starting from scratch without the politics of the UCI (HUGE Advantage) which gives them a big bonus in picking locations
Its not THAT expensive to run a big race, the UCI are taking the proverbial and charging crazy money to hold an event.
the EWS are starting from scratch without the politics of the UCI (HUGE Advantage) which gives them a big bonus in picking locations
bingo. you cant be a good DH rider without the small bike for fitness and you cannot be a top "endurpo" rider without the DH skillz. (note Remy Absalon has gone down the ranking re enduro events lately, or is that due to injury etc
)
Like this?
Red Bull should just take over. Half the riders are already sponsored by them anyways haha
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hells yea! given that a helmet cam takes 20% of steepness/dfficiulty off it that route would work! the fact that it has blinki screaching says enough about bits of it.... add in the fact the kiwi track builders wouldnt use most of that for a WC track and go nastierLike this?
Red Bull should just take over. Half the riders are already sponsored by them anyways haha
At the very top end it won't die, it is the f1 of mountain bikes. There will always be someone wanting to be the absolute fastest, and in the right conditions that is a full blown Dh bike, there will always be someone who wants to watch, and someone who wants to emulate them.
At the grass roots - Dh will take a hit. It's been the only game in town for people who liked going fast. Being able to go 99% as fast, on the bike you ride all the time, picking the best bits of trail - even when they have a flat bit or a climb has an amazing appeal.
But also at the grass roots are the people who are going to get demolished by being half fit. They can get away with it in a club level Dh - but not in an enduro. And the supremely fit have no problems racing Dh and enduro. So in a couple of years it will settle out, maybe club level Dh will lose 10% of their numbers, and enduro will carve out a niche of their own. Don't forget, all the shops are saying how the bikes they sell the most are trail bikes, and they are selling them to people who don't race at all. This is the untapped market that means enduro won't kill off anything, just add more options to the riding and racing calendar.
At the grass roots - Dh will take a hit. It's been the only game in town for people who liked going fast. Being able to go 99% as fast, on the bike you ride all the time, picking the best bits of trail - even when they have a flat bit or a climb has an amazing appeal.
But also at the grass roots are the people who are going to get demolished by being half fit. They can get away with it in a club level Dh - but not in an enduro. And the supremely fit have no problems racing Dh and enduro. So in a couple of years it will settle out, maybe club level Dh will lose 10% of their numbers, and enduro will carve out a niche of their own. Don't forget, all the shops are saying how the bikes they sell the most are trail bikes, and they are selling them to people who don't race at all. This is the untapped market that means enduro won't kill off anything, just add more options to the riding and racing calendar.
Well said.
Was coming back with the same sentiment every time I'd read the thread.
Well said squared.
From my perspective, which is admittedly limited, there's a disconnect between DH and other cycling. I'm referring to progression. If DH is the pinnacle of technical MTB, what would one call the natural progression? The oft used comparison of DH is to F1, and there there is a clear progression one has to take to get to that apex of motor sport.
XCO's red bull'ization is one such potential progression, but more so is Enduro as there's equal emphasis upon high endurance and high technical ability.
At the moment, enduro is seen as a place for the fading DH stars to continue their professional careers, and why not: every new show requires its darlings as drawcards.
But in the future, I see as the feedstock from which the future stars of DH can be drawn from a bicycle only background. Currently, it is clear that some of the top stars of DH draw upon their background or basis in MX. Is this really necessary? Can a bicycle only background suffice? if not, then DH is destined to be a very niche sport.
XCO's red bull'ization is one such potential progression, but more so is Enduro as there's equal emphasis upon high endurance and high technical ability.
At the moment, enduro is seen as a place for the fading DH stars to continue their professional careers, and why not: every new show requires its darlings as drawcards.
But in the future, I see as the feedstock from which the future stars of DH can be drawn from a bicycle only background. Currently, it is clear that some of the top stars of DH draw upon their background or basis in MX. Is this really necessary? Can a bicycle only background suffice? if not, then DH is destined to be a very niche sport.
I see the opposite here, DH has been at the ready to be drawn upon to define the sport. Enduro seems to be the bottleneck which is feeding it.
DH is legitimate as is all other racing, but no way would I consider it 'dying' or see it doing that. Having growing Enduro with room for a variety of riders hedging here and their in other Racing, DH seems very capable of holding the core value of Mountain Bike, and that's carving the descent. That's what Mountain Bike has always been about, just taking on refinement in the process.
DH is legitimate as is all other racing, but no way would I consider it 'dying' or see it doing that. Having growing Enduro with room for a variety of riders hedging here and their in other Racing, DH seems very capable of holding the core value of Mountain Bike, and that's carving the descent. That's what Mountain Bike has always been about, just taking on refinement in the process.
weekly phat wednesday races here in whistler are a WORCA/Bike Park colab and we get 250ish racers out every week, give out a few thousand dollars in draw prizes, entry after 10 years just went from $2 to $5, and you get a beer after. it's the best race series in the world pretty much.
Dh is to cycling what f1 is to driving a car on the road. It's where the technical innovations occur, the comparison falls down if you look at all the feeder classes that you need to go through to get to f1. An f1 ride cost 7 gazillion dollars, a Dh bike and a go cart cost the same (in very rough numbers), so there is no need for a feeder class.
Not really. The guys who we think as regular guys are far from the casual joe six pack audience. DH is in a strange place. Dirtjumping and bmx attracts young people but is cheap so they can afford it so a lot people ride it. Enduro is expensive but it attracts the 30+ guys who have enough cash to do it so it's popular.
Dh on the other hand is expensive, attracts younger riders who for the most part don't have as much cash but what's an even bigger problem it is the hardest to practice as it was already mentioned.
As for the article - I love articles that say "we need to change" and then suggest really nothing. It could as well be a blank page.
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I think the main point everyone is failing to see here isn't really whether DH is cooler than enduro or if the courses are too gnar, it's simply the economic hell hole that most folks < 30-years old are in. The unemployment rate in the US for those under 30 is extremely high, and for those under 25 (the prime age to be getting into the sport) is even worse. There also has been virtually no real wage growth in the USA over the past two decades to help fuel the purchase of expensive things like DH bikes, race entries, gas, and lodging. They're putting that hard earned money towards paying down huge student loan debt or are forced to work weekends at basically minimum wage just to afford the one bike they can ride for fun.
http://www.governing.com/gov-data/economy-finance/youth-employment-unemployment-rate-data-by-state.html
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2014/04/29/1839682/chart-of-the-day-us-vs-uk-median-real-wage-growth-since-1988/
I looked into some of this about a year or so back when I compared some race data and participant data from USAC. Basically the conclusion I came to is there aren't a whole lot more/less racers out there, they're just getting older. When they get older they participate in less risky forms of the sport, or get bored and try another aspect of it (road, enduro). The new racers are at the very young age groups (growth in youth mtb & bmx). But, I think that's fueled by racers who are in the 35-45 bracket having kids coming into racing age. Due to the economy we've basically lost a generation who are able to afford to race bikes.
-ska todd
http://www.governing.com/gov-data/economy-finance/youth-employment-unemployment-rate-data-by-state.html
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2014/04/29/1839682/chart-of-the-day-us-vs-uk-median-real-wage-growth-since-1988/
I looked into some of this about a year or so back when I compared some race data and participant data from USAC. Basically the conclusion I came to is there aren't a whole lot more/less racers out there, they're just getting older. When they get older they participate in less risky forms of the sport, or get bored and try another aspect of it (road, enduro). The new racers are at the very young age groups (growth in youth mtb & bmx). But, I think that's fueled by racers who are in the 35-45 bracket having kids coming into racing age. Due to the economy we've basically lost a generation who are able to afford to race bikes.
-ska todd
my racing died when i signed the mortgage papers.
part of his point is that it's more apparent in DH than other disciplines.
I tried my hand at racing DH only when I was staring down the barrel of founding a family. It was risky and exhilirating. To be competitive, it was clear to me I needed to spend a minimum amount of time training. Time that, now that I have two kids, I don't have. Also, I managed to break my wrist 10 days before my first son was born, and was in the delivery room with a cast. It quickly became apparent to me how useless I would be as a parent with broken body parts!
So for me it's not so much the job issue, it's more the risk and time commitment issue. But it certainly is tied to "growing up" as SkaTodd suggests.
But really, my point wasn't so much about the grass roots, it was about the pointy end of the stick. Is UCI DHI a product that has mass appeal and room to grow? Is it on the up or is it fading? How much of that ebb and flow is influenced by grass roots participation vs. marketing by a world-wide marketing behemoth such as RedBull?
I guess the fact that Yeti has canned it's DH team (only temporarily I hope) is an indication that DHI is waning. But I really hope this is only a temporary thing, and that they realize down the road that there is much to be gained from participating there.
So for me it's not so much the job issue, it's more the risk and time commitment issue. But it certainly is tied to "growing up" as SkaTodd suggests.
But really, my point wasn't so much about the grass roots, it was about the pointy end of the stick. Is UCI DHI a product that has mass appeal and room to grow? Is it on the up or is it fading? How much of that ebb and flow is influenced by grass roots participation vs. marketing by a world-wide marketing behemoth such as RedBull?
I guess the fact that Yeti has canned it's DH team (only temporarily I hope) is an indication that DHI is waning. But I really hope this is only a temporary thing, and that they realize down the road that there is much to be gained from participating there.