Kinesis DownHill Bike

zedro · Nov 1, 2004

guess i didnt interpret as him ripping on it.

they did open themselves up tho by asking peoples opinions on a couple of pics. Thats why i never asked anyones opinion on my bike

neaky:

Jm_ · Nov 1, 2004

biker3 said:
JM is totally ripping someones creation

I don't care what you think.

Although, by now it should be obvious.

I don't have much of a "heart" on the internet. Should I (we)? That's another debate I suppose.

zedro · Nov 1, 2004

Jm_ said:
I don't have much of a "heart" on the internet. Should I (we)? That's another debate I suppose.

funny, because up until now i've pictured you as a cute fuzzy plush toy animal doll that says "i love you" everytime you poke its stomach...

Jm_ · Nov 1, 2004

Original post;

maybee it's gonna need a few minor changes but the guy's over at Kinesis would really like to know your opinion's on this new frame so far

I'm not going to lie to you, the bike's way behind current technology, and I told you why.

JRogers · Nov 1, 2004

I really don't know why everyone is hating on this bike. It looks solid, has a proven design, some nice features and is designed as a possibly lower cost alternative to high priced frames. The design has an integrated floating brake also. Sure, it's a single pivot but is that so bad. How many races has the 223/222 series won? How many people love those bikes for lots of reasons? Couldn't this frame be as good or better?

Sherpa · Nov 1, 2004

JRogers said:
It looks solid, has a proven design, some nice features and is designed as a possibly lower cost alternative to high priced frames.

Didn't someone say like 1999 Euros. Thats a ****load, like $2300-$2400. Who the phuck would get a Kenisis bike over a SC V-10 or Turner DHR in the same price range?

zedro · Nov 1, 2004

JRogers said:
I really don't know why everyone is hating on this bike. ....

i just wanted a pulley....

Grimey · Nov 2, 2004

Anyway elese expect a rebadged v10 when they oppened this?

Flex?(yes... I know the joke)

The Kadvang · Nov 2, 2004

zedro said:
funny, because up until now i've pictured you as a cute fuzzy plush toy animal doll that says "i love you" everytime you poke its stomach...

As plush as a Boxxer Race?

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

thaflyinfatman · Nov 2, 2004

dw said:
OK, Jack is actual suspension extension, after all is said and done, when you are riding the bike. Over the years though, riders confused the feeling of "jack" with "packing" which means something totally different when talking about dampers and bumps.

This is why I dont use general laymans terms for describing suspension performace. They are generally misused and confusing.

That sentence was a leftover part of a couple of different sentences that I cut up. Ususally my replies are too damn technical so I have to re-word them so they make sense to as wide of an audience as I can. Hence the fragment that makes no sense.

dw

Ahh do you mean actual suspension extension when it hits a bump (ie the opposite of what it should do), or just suspension extension as you'd get on smooth ground? If you meant when it hits a bump, fair enough, that's the misunderstanding there. If not...?

Just for reference's sake - what is the correct technical term to use there? Braking anti-squat?

thaflyinfatman · Nov 2, 2004

zedro said:
dork, there are certain concepts that stay true from bike to bike. I dont hear hear you hacking on someone like DWs "speculations".

You'll also notice that DW replies with facts, not opinions (eg "your bike is behind the times MAAAN" etc), despite the fact that he has infinitely more to gain from demonstrating that somebody else's bike sucks (if it does), and he obviously has the capability to do so. You may have noticed (eg in your thread about "damn racers" or whatever it was) that people who show other people respect, get some in return. For his thousands of posts on this forum, I don't think I've EVER seen DW bag another bike (or a person) or component, or show contempt in any way. Jm_ however... Boxxer anyone?

Jm_ (and myself unfortunately, I apologise for that) basically said "your bike totally sucks because of ___" instead of offering something constructive; "in 1998-99 that might have been enough ..." - it's more than likely to be "enough" nowadays, look how many absolutely craptacular designs float around VERY successfully. Maybe a bit more positive contribution/respect would help.

KoeniE · Nov 2, 2004

Thank you for all your help and comments, first of all, looks are relative, you like it or you like it not. This all depends on the person. Second, Maybe the design is different from others or most common on the market, but would it perform less from what you want to achieve on a bike? what we wanted to make was the following.
- suspesion react the same from 20 to 80% of the travel
- low center of gravity
- no suspension compression under braking (it slightly extends)
- minimized bob effect when pedalling
- low sag compression to keep more usable travel

I would say come to europe and join the trail with us. i will set it up to your weight and you can test it

Greetings Koen

binary visions · Nov 2, 2004

KoeniE said:
<snip>
- no suspension compression under braking (it slightly extends)
<snip>
- low sag compression to keep more usable travel
<snip>

- of the two (compression and extension), compression would seem to me to be a far more desirable trait than extension. I would much rather have my bike squat a bit than raise up underneath me.

- how is this a function of the design (I'm asking, not implying that it's not)? For something like a VPP design, I could see how sag can be a significant part of the frame design but "low sag" on a single pivot is simply achieved through a little more preload or a higher spring rate, yes? How can you design in a certain amount of sag?

ssaddict · Nov 2, 2004

KoeniE said:
- suspesion react the same from 20 to 80% of the travel

I'm kind of curious as BV's question of sag got me thinking...

I assume alot of single pivot traits can be reduced or eliminated with just the use of a SPV shock. But what does the linkage do already?

How progressive is the linkage, and is it at all tunable?

KoeniE · Nov 2, 2004

when the the rear slightly extents it pushes the wheel to the ground to have better traction so you can break faster. when it compresses under braking your wheel starts to bump under braking

The compression story
first 20% needs a lot of power to compress it (you need a lot of N per mm compression) from 20 - 80% it is not progressive or degressive so you need the same N to compress it 1mm in this range. after the 80% you need less N per mm compression. but this would only work if you only have a spring and no damping in a curve the shock is tuned that it starts to build up firm from 65-75% of its compression to have a good bottom out resistance.

KoeniE · Nov 2, 2004

OK here the small drawing of the suspension curve black is the compression curve of the linkage in the bike starting with a high N/mm compression ratio, getting flat and than lowers. Red is the shock curve showing the load (N) you need to compress the shock. Combine those 2 and you see the curve the bike uses.

math2014 · Nov 2, 2004

Kevin said:
It will probably not be avalable for the US I think.
The bike s designed for the European market and 1999 euros is pretty cheap considering a v10 costs about 3200 and a m1 will cost 3600 over here so it might be an alternative for some people.
Anyways it's just a first impression of the bike so we'll see how it holds up on other tracks.

The V10 is like 3200eu and the M3 is like 3900eu in Europe... hold on for the USD prices.... 4920usd for the M3 frame, 4000usd for the new V10 frame in Europe,

given these figures... the Kinesis DH looks like a real bargain imho...for Europe at least....

math2014 · Nov 2, 2004

Kevin said:
Word, Europe sucks when it comes to buying bikes. Actually Europe sucks when it comes to anything...
After buying my v10 frame 2 weeks ago Im still on bread and water.
I was born in the wrong country on the wrong continent. :mumble:

Europe sucks when it comes to buying US boutique bikes distributed by people with very high profit margins.

zedro · Nov 2, 2004

thaflyinfatman said:
rant.

i guess i tend to filter stuff i read, whatever. But like Jm said, online stuff is always going to be more harsh.

I think people tended to be easier on my design online because most didnt seem to know what was going on....

thaflyinfatman · Nov 3, 2004

zedro said:
i guess i tend to filter stuff i read, whatever. But like Jm said, online stuff is always going to be more harsh.

I think people tended to be easier on my design online because most didnt seem to know what was going on....

Actually it's cos we all think (/know) you're a psycho who will hunt us down if we say anything bad about you or your bike. But I mean that in the best possible way.

You're right, online stuff IS more harsh... maybe because people aren't afraid of offending someone who's not standing within cockpunching range..

KoeniE · Nov 3, 2004

i don't feel offended... i can get the good things out if i want

Kinesis DownHill Bike

Turbo Monkey

sled dog's bollocks

Turbo Monkey

sled dog's bollocks

talks too much

Basking in fail.

Turbo Monkey

Monkey

Turbo Monkey

I rule

Turbo Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Chimp

The voice of reason

Monkey

Chimp

Chimp

wannabe curb dropper

Turbo Monkey

wannabe curb dropper

Turbo Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Chimp