[jvnixon]

I lost respect for CK when they did the pink headset sale. They donated $1 for every pink headset sold to the fight against breast cancer. How many pink headsets do you think they sold? 100, 200? I bet in the last 3-4 years Ive donated more to fight breast cancer than CK.

How is it you know how much King has given to breast cancer? Just because they've "only given a dollar" per pink part is a dollar more than i've heard from a lot of companies. They've helped move more people to donate as well (over $21,000 was raised with the custom Moots w/pink parts that they helped with).

At least they are doing something to help. You're knocking the company for giving back to a good cause and stating that you lost respect for them as such. So what parts is it you have on your bike that you feel have supported breast cancer? If anything they helped raise awareness as well to help others to give to the cause.

Who you should have a problem with maybe is the people who bought pink king limited parts to make a profit off of.

You, nor I, know how much King has given to breast cancer. Not everyone tells of their generosity. Priceless gibberish.

 

[Kntr]

How is it you know how much King has given to breast cancer? Just becuase they've "only given a dollar" per pink part is a dollar more than i've heard from a lot of companies.

At least they are doing something to help. You're knocking the company for giving back to a good cause and stating that you lost respect for them as such. So what parts is it you have on your bike that you feel have supported breast cancer? If anything they helped raise awareness as well to help others to give to the cause.

Who you should have a problem with maybe is the people who bought pink king limited parts to make a profit off of.

You, nor I, know how much King has given to breast cancer. Not everyone tells of their generosity. Priceless gibberish.

Im knocking a company for being cheap. They sell headsets and hubs for twice the amount of other companies. I just think they could have given a lot more.

I dont know how much they gave. Thats why I put "100, 200?". I just think only giving $1 is sort of cheap. You are right it did bring awareness of breast cancer. You are also right that other bike companies do not contribute. It was also pretty cheap advertising on their part.

All Im saying is $1 for a $150 headset is sort of cheap.

How many PINK headsets do you think they sold? Im not trying to argue. Im just stating my opinion. Maybe it bothers me because I know what I give each year to fight breast cancer. And I think if a company stands up and says they are contributing to a cause, they should contribute more than a couple hundred dollars.

I never saw a number of how many PINK headsets were sold either. I wonder if there is a reason.

 

[xc skier]

I had a CK headset on my previous dh bike and I couldn't get rid of creaking until I tried this mod http://www.bikeguide.org/how-to/king/index.php

 

[Huck Banzai]

You should not have any problems with a king headset in any application.

If it creaks, you didnt properly prep your frame, read the warranty.

They have easily earned their reputation, and a King can be found on a high end ultra light road bike as well as a full on DH or FR beast. I have Pig DH pro's too currently, and while heavier, they havent outlasted or outperformed the kings at 2x the weight.

BTW - if you managed to somehow screw up your king, they will most likely fix it for you FREE. In review of the above referenced 'how-to' guide posted and the comment that they are not good for BMX - I wonder why every bike I see all over NYC, pros to groms are rocking a CK? (excepting those with integrated headsets)

I would use many other headsets, as with most products, most are good, but always prefer a King.

 

[Huck Banzai]

I have one

Yeah - its a fitting for the existing tool, not a whole new tool (as you well know) so its not a major investment to get a hold of.

 

[Mani_UT]

If it creaks, you didnt properly prep your frame, read the warranty.
.

Yeah whatever.. You guys are funny. I'll tell my mechanics they suck and don't know how to install a headset (which by the way is about the only piece I don't mount myself on my bikes). They'll have a good laugh.

You got a point though. I have a used CK in my tool box that I was keeping to put on a junker since it's shot. May be I should send it back (I never did because I accepted the fact that the headset was not designed for heavy use and it was my choice to put it on a DH bike while being aware of its limitations..)

 

[davep]

If it creaks, you didnt properly prep your frame, read the warranty.

The install can contribute to issues, but your statement is 100% incorrect. little ironic considering your complaint of others stating 'opinion' as 'fact'

In my experience, the creaking comes from top cap movement. This movement causes wear to the underside of the top cap as the cap is aluminum and the bearing on which it contacts is steel (why do you think the crown race is steel...it has the same geometyr and performs the exact same function as the top cap on a king).

Once the annodization on the top cap wears through, the unprotected aluminum will oxidize and pit where it contacts the upper bearing. This surface imperfection is the cause of the excess noise.


Even a basic understanding of physics (statics) will allow anyone to see the short commings of the King design (not materials). Something that was done to avoid the CC patent.

 

[Huck Banzai]

The install can contribute to issues, but your statement is 100% incorrect. little ironic considering your complaint of others stating 'opinion' as 'fact'

In my experience, the creaking comes from top cap movement. This movement causes wear to the underside of the top cap as the cap is aluminum and the bearing on which it contacts is steel (why do you think the crown race is steel...it has the same geometyr and performs the exact same function as the top cap on a king).

Once the annodization on the top cap wears through, the unprotected aluminum will oxidize and pit where it contacts the upper bearing. This surface imperfection is the cause of the excess noise.


Even a basic understanding of physics (statics) will allow anyone to see the short commings of the King design (not materials). Something that was done to avoid the CC patent.

In MY experience, you should not have issues - I am on my 4th - all on different bikes - and know if innumerable others who have a similar experience. I wiegh 246lbs and am riding XL frames with extra leverage on my parts that most dont endure, and I have them on 4" up to 8" bikes that see heavy use on very rough terrain and plenty of drops and jumps. I also have used the same one on my XC bikes since 96 and Im a fan of churning it out in the muddy rain - DH or XC. Why would my top cap oxidize? 11 Years and obviously not new, but not damaged, nor oxidized after thousands of miles.


The lower bearing and race take an order of magnitude more load than the upper -- the motive behind an increasing trend to use a 1.5 lower to accomodate a larger bearing.


Do you bother to use grease on your headsets? Torque your stem bolts adequately after preloading the headset?

 

[Huck Banzai]

Yeah whatever.. You guys are funny. I'll tell my mechanics they suck and don't know how to install a headset (which by the way is about the only piece I don't mount myself on my bikes). They'll have a good laugh.

You got a point though. I have a used CK in my tool box that I was keeping to put on a junker since it's shot. May be I should send it back (I never did because I accepted the fact that the headset was not designed for heavy use and it was my choice to put it on a DH bike while being aware of its limitations..)

I would be plenty suspect of mechanics who have issues with CK headsets.

I do all my own wrenchwork - I'll use the shops bearing presses and reamers/facers because I dont have my own, but *I* use them, no one touches their tools (!) to my bike but me! <>

 

[davep]

In MY experience,

Exactly

Why would my top cap oxidize? 11 Years and obviously not new, but not damaged, nor oxidized after thousands of miles.

Read above, the top cap to bearing contact is a wear point. Once the anno is gone, Al will oxidize in the open atmosphere (not to mention galvanic corosion)

The lower bearing and race take an order of magnitude more load than the upper -- the motive behind an increasing trend to use a 1.5 lower to accomodate a larger bearing.

I would like to see your assumptions and calcualtions to come up with 10X to load. Axial sure, but that is not the issue....but not radial.

Do you bother to use grease on your headsets? Torque your stem bolts adequately after preloading the headset?

Grease between the seperate parts of the headset? No! Grease is not designed, nor recomended for this type of application. It is not capable of maintain a film layer between these type of parts. These type of parts (especially dis-similar metals) that are friction fit, or press fit, that are designed to not move against one another (in theory do not move..but do in the real world) like seperate headset parts, should have some sort of galvanic isolation material between them. For these type of applications, either an anti-sieze compound or a loc-tite type product (not very convenient in this application)should be used...both will isolate the seperate materials and prevent dissimilar metal corrosion.


For the record, I do own a king headset and it is currently working fine (I have had little issue with it, only occasional loosening on the old big rig). I just see a few serious design issues with this part that IMHO are not ideal for handling the types of loads that current longer travel forks lead to. This headset was designed (around an existing patent) when 'long travel forks' were 80mm...things have change a LOT since then.

 

[vpfree05]

So how does the Steel King headset hold up? I was looking at that for an option on my new DH rig.

 

[seismic]

Yeah, that will help with the thousandth of a second of raw acceleration I could be putting on the drive train that keeps me out of the world cup...

It is not about if I gain 0,0003 sec or not, but it feels better than most hubs (IMO) as you do have the "free play" in the beginning of the pedal stroke.

 

[maxyedor]

Im knocking a company for being cheap. They sell headsets and hubs for twice the amount of other companies. I just think they could have given a lot more.

I dont know how much they gave. Thats why I put "100, 200?". I just think only giving $1 is sort of cheap. You are right it did bring awareness of breast cancer. You are also right that other bike companies do not contribute. It was also pretty cheap advertising on their part.

All Im saying is $1 for a $150 headset is sort of cheap.

How many PINK headsets do you think they sold? Im not trying to argue. Im just stating my opinion. Maybe it bothers me because I know what I give each year to fight breast cancer. And I think if a company stands up and says they are contributing to a cause, they should contribute more than a couple hundred dollars.

I never saw a number of how many PINK headsets were sold either. I wonder if there is a reason.

I'm with you on that one. As I remember they marked up the pink headsets $15 or $20, but only gave a buck to breast cancer research. Yoplait donates like a quarter for every pink yougurt top you send in, which would be like King donating $75 from every pink headset sale. Kinda lame marketing gimik, sure it "raised awareness" but was anybody unaware of breast cancer before they saw a pink King? Or did King capitalize on the pink and black color scheme trend that was popular at the time, and make customers feel good about paying more for a certain headset by giving a dollar to breast cancer research.


Huck-Banzi, I've never talked to a mechanic with a decent amount of experience building high-end bikes whohasn't had issues with King, either personaly or on their customer's bikes.

 

[Huck Banzai]

I'm with you on that one. As I remember they marked up the pink headsets $15 or $20, but only gave a buck to breast cancer research. Yoplait donates like a quarter for every pink yougurt top you send in, which would be like King donating $75 from every pink headset sale. Kinda lame marketing gimik, sure it "raised awareness" but was anybody unaware of breast cancer before they saw a pink King? Or did King capitalize on the pink and black color scheme trend that was popular at the time, and make customers feel good about paying more for a certain headset by giving a dollar to breast cancer research.


Huck-Banzi, I've never talked to a mechanic with a decent amount of experience building high-end bikes whohasn't had issues with King, either personaly or on their customer's bikes.

Im really just angling for 'quality responses' -- Ridemonkey currently seems to have the largest amount of intelligent and informed discussion (plenty of mook-a-thon's too!)

And Im lying. I only have 3 King headsets and have had some creaks. It was nice to get well written responses instead of the classic inane derision!

 

[Huck Banzai]

Exactly



Read above, the top cap to bearing contact is a wear point. Once the anno is gone, Al will oxidize in the open atmosphere (not to mention galvanic corosion)



I would like to see your assumptions and calcualtions to come up with 10X to load. Axial sure, but that is not the issue....but not radial.



Grease between the seperate parts of the headset? No! Grease is not designed, nor recomended for this type of application. It is not capable of maintain a film layer between these type of parts. These type of parts (especially dis-similar metals) that are friction fit, or press fit, that are designed to not move against one another (in theory do not move..but do in the real world) like seperate headset parts, should have some sort of galvanic isolation material between them. For these type of applications, either an anti-sieze compound or a loc-tite type product (not very convenient in this application)should be used...both will isolate the seperate materials and prevent dissimilar metal corrosion.


For the record, I do own a king headset and it is currently working fine (I have had little issue with it, only occasional loosening on the old big rig). I just see a few serious design issues with this part that IMHO are not ideal for handling the types of loads that current longer travel forks lead to. This headset was designed (around an existing patent) when 'long travel forks' were 80mm...things have change a LOT since then.

and in continuation of my last response - this is the other end of the derision with the condescending 'i know more than you' yap. 10x, 100x - the point being that the bulk af any load carried is at the lower bearing/race - do you disagree? Have you seen any ovalized headtubes at the toptube? (no diatribes please)

Use light grease between the races and the bearings - yes.

 

[rosenamedpoop]

Why are people still drooling over King stuff? King is an honest 3 years behind most high end companies now. I guess it's old guys with lots of nostalgia an money to spend keeping King in business...go figure!

 

[Mike B.]

For what it's worth, I've used Kings for years with only occasional loosening. For Interbike I was sent one of the new Cane Creek 110 headsets to install in a Siren Cycles xc hardtail. The construction was every bit as good as any King I've installed (or the Hope sitting on my desk) plus it has the captive compression ring in the top cap. Comes with a shim that can be changed out under the compression ring to account for steerer tolerance variations as well. Matching alloy spacers to boot if that's your thing. No ride time though and don't know if there will be a 1.5 version.

 

[speed racer]

Well, as for headsets, how about from the company that originally invented the threadless headset, and is still producing cutting edge products like, the Double Barrel. Here is their new headset. King will have to step up now for sure:


Official sales pitch:

Our new “110” headset is the new pinnacle of headset technology. There are a lot of little things going on in a headset that you can improve upon that add up to superior performance and less headaches in the long run. One key feature of our “110” headset is the “Captured Compression Ring”. By capturing the compression ring in the top cover, the “110” allows for fine tuning your headset to accommodate the common variation in steer tube diameter without having to worry about losing spacer shims when assembling, shipping, or overhauling your bike. With the Captured Compression Ring, the “110” has the simplicity of and O-ring type headset, but with the fundamental performance advantage a compression ring. The alloy used for the “110”headset, spacers, and top cap is a custom processed 7050 alloy, only available in the “110” headset. The headset also comes standard with 17.5mm of our new “scalloped” Interlok spacers. This design provides a solid interface between the top-cover and the spacer stack while shaving an additional 25% in weight off a standard alloy spacer stack. Moreover, the “Split Lip Bearing” incorporates a dual lip seal design which offers twice the protection of the single sided seal normally found in headset cartridge bearings while decreasing friction. The Split-Lip seal is just one more improvement from the creators of the threadless headset. All of this is backed by our 110 Year warranty.

Captured Compression Ring Technology
7050 Alloy – custom processed specifically for the 110
Hand Polished before Anodizing
Clean Crisp Graphics
Serviceable Bearings (Split Lip “double sided” Seal)
110 Year Warranty
17.5mm of Interlok Spacers Included (also from 7050Plus Alloy)
97.5 grams (without spacers) - This is the actual installed weight, without star-nut or spacers
Spacers are “Scalloped” to shave additional weight over standard spacers (25% lower than standard alloy spacers)
Available in Red, Blue, Silver, and Black
Retail $140

 

[Huck Banzai]

Well, as for headsets, how about from the company that originally invented the threadless headset, and is still producing cutting edge products like, the Double Barrel. Here is their new headset. King will have to step up now for sure:


Official sales pitch:

Our new “110” headset is the new pinnacle of headset technology. There are a lot of little things going on in a headset that you can improve upon that add up to superior performance and less headaches in the long run. One key feature of our “110” headset is the “Captured Compression Ring”. By capturing the compression ring in the top cover, the “110” allows for fine tuning your headset to accommodate the common variation in steer tube diameter without having to worry about losing spacer shims when assembling, shipping, or overhauling your bike. With the Captured Compression Ring, the “110” has the simplicity of and O-ring type headset, but with the fundamental performance advantage a compression ring. The alloy used for the “110”headset, spacers, and top cap is a custom processed 7050 alloy, only available in the “110” headset. The headset also comes standard with 17.5mm of our new “scalloped” Interlok spacers. This design provides a solid interface between the top-cover and the spacer stack while shaving an additional 25% in weight off a standard alloy spacer stack. Moreover, the “Split Lip Bearing” incorporates a dual lip seal design which offers twice the protection of the single sided seal normally found in headset cartridge bearings while decreasing friction. The Split-Lip seal is just one more improvement from the creators of the threadless headset. All of this is backed by our 110 Year warranty.

Captured Compression Ring Technology
7050 Alloy – custom processed specifically for the 110
Hand Polished before Anodizing
Clean Crisp Graphics
Serviceable Bearings (Split Lip “double sided” Seal)
110 Year Warranty
17.5mm of Interlok Spacers Included (also from 7050Plus Alloy)
97.5 grams (without spacers) - This is the actual installed weight, without star-nut or spacers
Spacers are “Scalloped” to shave additional weight over standard spacers (25% lower than standard alloy spacers)
Available in Red, Blue, Silver, and Black
Retail $140

Looks nice! I had an old CC last forever, Used from 95-2001, then into a drawer - I gave it to a friend for a build and I believe its still kickin around.

To the above comment that CK is 'at least 3 years behind the competition' - please elaborate?! What King product is 'behind the tiems'? Acknowledging the issues claimed in this thread - they may be in need of a redesign, but what exactly is old technology here? (Genuine question!)

 

[in the trees]

And will the CC 110 be offered as a 1.5" and 1.5"R? Anyone know?

toby