[ChainWhip]

:mumble:

So, I know Maverick fork owners love this, but why does King jump on the 24mm front hub semi-standard while they've yet to make a 1.5 headset?

Don't get me wrong, I *love* Chris King components - and I'm probably just venting a little 'cuz I really really really want a King 1.5 headset.

I continue to patiently wait...

http://www.chrisking.com/hubs/hbs_24mm.html

 

[zedro]

Our 24mm hub uses the same shell, bearings and adjusting clamp as our 20mm hub. The only difference is the axle itself. One axle for 20mm thru-axle systems, one axle for the 24mm QR system.

they made it because it was stupid easy to do so. 1.5 headsets would take a little more effort....

 

[Dogboy]

:mumble:

So, I know Maverick fork owners love this, but why does King jump on the 24mm front hub semi-standard while they've yet to make a 1.5 headset?

Don't get me wrong, I *love* Chris King components - and I'm probably just venting a little 'cuz I really really really want a King 1.5 headset.

I continue to patiently wait...

http://www.chrisking.com/hubs/hbs_24mm.html

I agree. Or how about a 150mm rear hub. Seems like a more established "standard" than a 24mm front hub.

 

[-dustin]

i don't think you can even loosely apply the word "standard" to 24mm hubs.

 

[binary visions]

they made it because it was stupid easy to do so. 1.5 headsets would take a little more effort....

Anyone know what the I.D. of their 20mm hub bearings are? My guess, considering the large the I.D. of their rear hub bearings, is that they didn't even need to do anything but machine out a new sleeve...

 

[zedro]

Anyone know what the I.D. of their 20mm hub bearings are? My guess, considering the large the I.D. of their rear hub bearings, is that they didn't even need to do anything but machine out a new sleeve...

yeah i'm thinking the 'spacer' (internal axle) for their 20mm hub is maybe already 24mm OD/20mm ID, so they just made a longer version of it since the Maverick doesnt use a remouvable seperate axle, like the old QR20 hubs.

 

[DHS]

meh...Hadley

 

[Kornphlake]

King won't make a 1.5 headset because their bread and butter is the claim that their 1.125 headset will last 10 years and the steelset will stop ovalized headtubes. Accepting the 1.5 standard would mean they would also have to accept that their 1.125 design is not perfect. Mr. King seems way too cocky to do that.

 

[binary visions]

King won't make a 1.5 headset because their bread and butter is the claim that their 1.125 headset will last 10 years and the steelset will stop ovalized headtubes. Accepting the 1.5 standard would mean they would also have to accept that their 1.125 design is not perfect. Mr. King seems way too cocky to do that.

Considering their ready promise that 1.5 headsets will eventually be available, I think your line of reasoning is seriously flawed.

Originally they had a news release on when the 1.5 headsets were going to come out. They pulled that off the page as it drew closer to the time they promised. If you contact them, they will (at least the last time I emailed them) tell you that they will be producing one, but can't give a good estimate on the release date.

Why would producing a 1.5 headset be admitting a problem with 1 1/8?

 

[OGRipper]

King won't make a 1.5 headset because their bread and butter is the claim that their 1.125 headset will last 10 years and the steelset will stop ovalized headtubes. Accepting the 1.5 standard would mean they would also have to accept that their 1.125 design is not perfect. Mr. King seems way too cocky to do that.

Their "bread and butter" is the high quality of their parts, not some marketing claims. I can't see anyone not buying a 1.125 King headset just because King also offers a 1.5. On the other hand, they could sell some 1.5 headsets if they made them, so I suspect it's more about the time and effort involved in design and manufacture.

 

[zedro]

Considering their ready promise that 1.5 headsets will eventually be available, I think your line of reasoning is seriously flawed.

plus, if half the frames made (in the future) were 1.5, dont you think they might tap that? Its a frame makers standard, they dont have to agree with it...

 

[Ian F]

yeah i'm thinking the 'spacer' (internal axle) for their 20mm hub is maybe already 24mm OD/20mm ID, so they just made a longer version of it since the Maverick doesnt use a remouvable seperate axle, like the old QR20 hubs.

Looks that way:

"Our 24mm hub uses the same shell, bearings and adjusting clamp as our 20mm hub. The only difference is the axle itself. One axle for 20mm thru-axle systems, one axle for the 24mm QR system."

Pulled right off the page linked above...

 

[-dustin]

i heard there were some proto 1.5s out.

 

[FlipSide]

I think I remember reading somewhere that King would consider making 1.5 headsets the day either RockShox, Fox or Marzocchi would also offer 1.5 forks. As long as it's only Manitou (and Magura I believe), it may not be a good business decision to invest time and money into producing 1.5 headsets.

 

[leprechaun]

every time someone calls or speaks to King ASK about a 150x12 hub!
they're making a list of how many people ask for it.
Who knows,but it could be in the (distant) future.

 

[buildyourown]

I think I remember reading somewhere that King would consider making 1.5 headsets the day either RockShox, Fox or Marzocchi would also offer 1.5 forks. As long as it's only Manitou (and Magura I believe), it may not be a good business decision to invest time and money into producing 1.5 headsets.

I think 1.5 steerer tubes are a bit unneccessary. But the bigger HT does make it easier for frame makers to make a sound front end. I would love to be able to put a king reducer headset on my DHR and Rail.

 

[Jimmy_Pop]

every time someone calls or speaks to King ASK about a 150x12 hub!
they're making a list of how many people ask for it.
Who knows,but it could be in the (distant) future.

how hard could it be for them to make 135mm x 10mm or 12mm axle kits to be used on their QR hubs??

 

[-dustin]

what's the difference between 10mm axle kit and their HD axle with Fun Bolts?

hm, that reminds me, i need to tear apart my rear hub.

 

[zedro]

Looks that way:

"Our 24mm hub uses the same shell, bearings and adjusting clamp as our 20mm hub. The only difference is the axle itself. One axle for 20mm thru-axle systems, one axle for the 24mm QR system."

Pulled right off the page linked above...

or the quote i gave in the 2nd post

 

[binary visions]

how hard could it be for them to make 135mm x 10mm or 12mm axle kits to be used on their QR hubs??

It isn't, but IMO, they are avoiding the issues with having their hubs run across the board on DH/FR bikes which are generally abused a lot more than what they've previously run their hubs on.

It's not that their hubs can't necessarily take it, but they are significantly lighter than other DH hubs. They're strong hubs, but they're not designed to be in the same class as, say, the Hadley DH hubs. I think you'd see a lot more failed CK hubs if they offered them in 12/15mm axle & 150mm hub configurations, simply because there'd be more of them being used on high-abuse bikes..

edit: Disclaimer: I have no knowledge of King's intentions, and this may be completely off. If so, I deeply apologize for any mental anguish you have suffered from this post. Not to be taken internally. Your mileage may vary.

 

[zedro]

It isn't, but IMO, they are avoiding the issues with having their hubs run across the board on DH/FR bikes which are generally abused a lot more than what they've previously run their hubs on.

It's not that their hubs can't necessarily take it, but they are significantly lighter than other DH hubs. They're strong hubs, but they're not designed to be in the same class as, say, the Hadley DH hubs. I think you'd see a lot more failed CK hubs if they offered them in 12/15mm axle & 150mm hub configurations, simply because there'd be more of them being used on high-abuse bikes..

edit: Disclaimer: I have no knowledge of King's intentions, and this may be completely off. If so, I deeply apologize for any mental anguish you have suffered from this post. Not to be taken internally. Your mileage may vary.

well its a bit strange considering they make 145mm and 160mm tandem hubs. And people have been using their 135 hubs for DH....

 

[binary visions]

well its a bit strange considering they make 145mm and 160mm tandem hubs. And people have been using their 135 hubs for DH....

Yeah, but honestly, how many tandem bikes do you see? And sure, their QR hubs are used for DH, but they would open up a much larger segment of the DH/FR crowd if they offered mass compatibility with almost every DH frame available by going to 12/15mm & 150mm shells.

Like I said, the hubs can obviously take a good beating, but I can see the logic for not wanting to widen their market share in a market that thrashes their hubs harder than the average CK hub buyer.

 

[HRDTLBRO]

It's funny that King recognizes the high abuse market with the steelset. They make a damn strong headset, but don't want to make strong hubs? It's not like they need to completely re-design their already dandy products, just add a bit of strength and mill out a larger diameter sleeve for a thru-axle. Hell, many King hubs are used in trials, and that's not the easiest on components. It's like the 24mm axle, it was easy to do because of the ease of engineering. Whatever, my bike has a 1.5 headset and uses a 165mm axle, so i'm screwed. Maybe i'll just get a steelset for my bmx bike.

 

[HRDTLBRO]

Oh! Me! Me! 500

 

[OGRipper]

You guys are way off. The real reason King is not making 150X12 Hubs OR 1.5 headsets is because their entire staff and R&D budget are dedicated 24/7/365 to the King Bottom Bracket.

That and pink anodizing.

 

[Jimmy_Pop]

It's funny that King recognizes the high abuse market with the steelset. They make a damn strong headset, but don't want to make strong hubs? It's not like they need to completely re-design their already dandy products, just add a bit of strength and mill out a larger diameter sleeve for a thru-axle. Hell, many King hubs are used in trials, and that's not the easiest on components. It's like the 24mm axle, it was easy to do because of the ease of engineering. Whatever, my bike has a 1.5 headset and uses a 165mm axle, so i'm screwed. Maybe i'll just get a steelset for my bmx bike.

you can buy their salt-n-pepper shakers and t-shirts ?????

 

[Incubus]

You guys are way off. The real reason King is not making 150X12 Hubs OR 1.5 headsets is because their entire staff and R&D budget are dedicated 24/7/365 to the King Bottom Bracket.

That and pink anodizing.

I think it's strange that they pulled the 1.5 headset info off of their site, but the bb page has been there since the age of the square taper bb.

 

[HRDTLBRO]

Hell yea,
I love the CK headset for president t-shirt. :evil:

 

[leprechaun]

They're simply waiting to see how the spacing and dia stuff pans out.Then it will come(if 12x150 does indeed become a 'standard')
same with 1.5.
Then we can rock out with purple hubs on our all black FR/DH/Huck bikes :dancing:

 

[Jimmy_Pop]

Hell yea,
I love the CK headset for president t-shirt. :evil:

the "Chris King gives great Headsets" T-shirt was just posted up online.

 

[Incubus]

Like HRDTLBRO mentioned, I think that trials guys running King hubs prove that the internals are up to the task of DH abuse.

 

[OGRipper]

They're simply waiting to see how the spacing and dia stuff pans out.Then it will come(if 12x150 does indeed become a 'standard')
same with 1.5.
Then we can rock out with purple hubs on our all black FR/DH/Huck bikes :dancing:

Yeah you might be right but what threshold must be reached before something is a "standard," especially with something like hubs where they can be compatible with a few different standards by swapping end caps, etc.? They can do what they want (duh) but loyal customers are going elsewhere and those customers might come to realize that (other than the bling factor) King stuff isn't that much better than other stuff that costs less. I know more than one person who went to another manufacturer for a 1.5 headset and then, after realizing King is not the only company that makes good headsets, bought something other than King next time they needed a 1.125.

 

[Kornphlake]

Okay, so maybe my first post was a little off base, still I think we can all agree that with the exception of useless items like $125 salt and pepper shakers CK marches to his own drum when it comes to developing products. The BB has been rumored for what 5 years now, if not longer? If he really wanted to get a BB out then he'd get one made, same with 1.5 headsets and hubs with wider spacings. I hope he's got at least one lathe that's not entirely dedicated to production and somebody who's talented enough to run it, it's not like he'd be rediscovering the laws of physics. In the case of a 1.5 headset it would simply be a matter of changing the scale of his already proven headset and some testing to be sure there wasn't an oops in the design phase. Bottom brackets are a little more intense on the design side since there isn't a CK square taper BB to copy but if he's really the bearing maker of bearing makers that he claims to be, working out the details should be no problem.

Sorry for the soap box rant, I've just got a personal vendetta against CK stuff. Sure it's high quality but it seems like there are some personal ideals (some good and some bad) that dictate how and what products are made rather than what the market really needs/wants.

 

[OGRipper]

Sorry for the soap box rant, I've just got a personal vendetta against CK stuff. Sure it's high quality but it seems like there are some personal ideals (some good and some bad) that dictate how and what products are made rather than what the market really needs/wants.

CK is like a drug pusher that got us hooked on some old party drug but refuses to push the latest and greatest high until we want it so bad we'll pay twice the price. But by then the other pushers are pushing something else...

I agree that to a certain extent King is alienating some existing customers and missing out on some new ones. Yeah it's frustrating when someone won't make what you want but it's their call. As for what the market needs, I don't know Korn, does the market really NEED another 1.5 headset or super pricey 12mm hub? I don't think so. It doesn't hurt anyone except King if they choose to not make something. The only reason any of us care is because we might WANT a King 1.5 or 12mm hub and we don't have the choice.

On that note, man it would be sweet if CK made an X-type BB. I don't need one but I think I could be convinced to want one.

 

[HRDTLBRO]

You know good and well the only reason we all want super pricey CK hubs is the sound...well, that and pink ano.

 

[dexter]

king 1.5-good
king wide rears-waste of there money and yours just get a hadley just as nice and same bling factor with more engagemennt

 

[punkassean]

I wish they'd make a 10mm bolt on thru-axle kit for the rear (non-fun bolt) so Saint derails could be used. hell I bet they could make a drive-side fun bolt that had a threaded shaft coming off of it that would work. I also wish there front hub was interchangeable from QR to 20mm. I wouldn't have had to buy new wheels for my new bike if they had both of these options.

I love their stuff but it's unrealistic to build some wheels up with their hubs with all of these "standards" floating around...

 

[Incubus]

king 1.5-good
king wide rears-waste of there money and yours just get a hadley just as nice and same bling factor with more engagemennt

More engagement points, not more actual engagement though.

 

[punkassean]

Hadley only comes in black and maybe gold? Where's the fun in black?

Great hubs, but too boring and the shape is not very sexy either, King is ooh-la-la!

 

[zedro]

Great hubs, but too boring and the shape is not very sexy either, King is ooh-la-la!

yeah, people just dont get it. Like the other day i called up Go-Ride to order hubs, and asked them for the funnest sexiest hubs they had. Somehow the phone connection went dead before i got an answer....