Lance not a great athlete? you decide
- Thread starter Barbaton
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Fools such as that are not worth the time that would be wasted typing an email...
WQRD!binary visions said:
We've gone through this before... who was that baseball player that said "I'm not an athlete, I'm a ball player." ???
There are also those who say that biking is not a sport... no sense in pounding your head against the wall - the guys probably a downhiller anyway...
There are also those who say that biking is not a sport... no sense in pounding your head against the wall - the guys probably a downhiller anyway...
And the quickdraw award goes to BV...
Incidentally, I didn't make it clear enough that that's an actual editorial from an actual newspaper, not just some B$ from some yahoo on an online board.
Incidentally, I didn't make it clear enough that that's an actual editorial from an actual newspaper, not just some B$ from some yahoo on an online board.
John Kruk. I love that guy.Serial Midget said:
I agree that the article isn't worthy of a reply.
Oh, its that easy to win the tour?!
If Id known that I would have about 10 of 'em under my belt already...
:nuts:
Bwaaaaaaahahahahahaha! This guy has hooked a whole *STRINGER* full of liddle fishies with his trolling. I would think that those fishies would've wised up by now....... 
-S.S.-
-S.S.-
Cripes someone should give that guy idiot of the year award. We need to start that award up on RM me thinks.
*flame suit on*
A lot of the sports talk radio shows discussed this very same thing Monday. Most people seemed to agree that he is not a great athlete, and I would tend to agree. Being an athlete is about coordination and body control. Lance admits he has none of that. He has no hand-eye coordination, no foot speed, no "god-given" ability. What he's good at is suffering (in his own words). To a large extent suffering can be learned, IMO, because suffering is a 80% mental.
I'm not saying he's not an athlete, but I don't think he's a world class athlete. The "athletic" things he's good at (stamina, endurance, focus, will power) are a small part of what it takes to be an all-around athlete. FWIW... I also don't consider NFL linemen world class athletes because all they have to do is push other people out of the way. For a lineman, it's all about strenght and leverage - again, not coordination
The other topic discussed on talk radio shows this week is the comparison between Tiger Woods' 4 consecutive majors and Lance's 6 consecutive TDF. 99% of the people agreed that Tiger's accomplishment was a greater athletic achievement, but it was about 50/50 as to which was more impressive.
OK, now you can ban me...
::EDIT::
OK, now that I've read the article linked above...
I'm not supporting that guy, because he's a nutcase. You can't take a world class football, basketball, soccer, whatever player and put him on a bike and expect him to compete for the TDF. That's just stupidity. It's a totally different kind of conditioning. Heck, even a world class long distance track athlete couldn't compete in the Tour.
A lot of the sports talk radio shows discussed this very same thing Monday. Most people seemed to agree that he is not a great athlete, and I would tend to agree. Being an athlete is about coordination and body control. Lance admits he has none of that. He has no hand-eye coordination, no foot speed, no "god-given" ability. What he's good at is suffering (in his own words). To a large extent suffering can be learned, IMO, because suffering is a 80% mental.
I'm not saying he's not an athlete, but I don't think he's a world class athlete. The "athletic" things he's good at (stamina, endurance, focus, will power) are a small part of what it takes to be an all-around athlete. FWIW... I also don't consider NFL linemen world class athletes because all they have to do is push other people out of the way. For a lineman, it's all about strenght and leverage - again, not coordination
The other topic discussed on talk radio shows this week is the comparison between Tiger Woods' 4 consecutive majors and Lance's 6 consecutive TDF. 99% of the people agreed that Tiger's accomplishment was a greater athletic achievement, but it was about 50/50 as to which was more impressive.
OK, now you can ban me...
::EDIT::
OK, now that I've read the article linked above...
I'm not supporting that guy, because he's a nutcase. You can't take a world class football, basketball, soccer, whatever player and put him on a bike and expect him to compete for the TDF. That's just stupidity. It's a totally different kind of conditioning. Heck, even a world class long distance track athlete couldn't compete in the Tour.
Everyone has their opinions. Some people think that cycling is not a sport, I happen to think the same of golf, bowling and baseball
Anyone who thinks cycling does not require skill or coordination should try to:
1) Spin at a cadence over 120, and
2) Ride a bicycle down a switchback road in the alps at 60+mph, and
2) Survive a bunch sprint to the finish at 40+mph with 180 other cyclists around.
Then let's hear what they have to say.
1) Spin at a cadence over 120, and
2) Ride a bicycle down a switchback road in the alps at 60+mph, and
2) Survive a bunch sprint to the finish at 40+mph with 180 other cyclists around.
Then let's hear what they have to say.
me too. Funny and cool dude. I think it was an All-Star Game where, damn, brain malfunction, but something funny happened.I Are Baboon said:John Kruk. I love that guy.
As for what is or is not a sport... I think the first criteria is if there's no chance of serious injury, then it should not be considered a sport.
Jackson, I hate getting involved in stuff like this, but although you present a compelling arguement on the surface, I don't think you know what you are talking about. First, who are you to say that your definition of athleticism is THE definition. Second, they day that you or Tiger Woods can keep up with Lance even going down a hill on a bike is the day I'll agree you know what you are talking about.
Daily herald is a newspaper out of provo utah. I'm not suprised that that kind of rubbish was published, that town is so starved of news they'll publish somebody planting grass in their back yard on the front page. I'm not going to do the research to find out for certain if this is the same author, but at one time there was a journalist for the daily universe that was dismissed from his editorial position with the campus newspaper and subsequently expelled from the university because of his viewpoints that were most inappropriately expressed in the school newspaper (that's right no freedom of speech when you attend a private university.) The daily herald quickly snatched up this young journalist and gave him his own column called snide remarks, apparently the local community loved to hate him for his off base comments. I don't support the daily herald or it's use of sensationalism to gain readers, give me factual news or at least try to disguise the bias, I know where to find the national enquirer, I dont need it delivered to my door. I'm confident this article was only published to get a response out of the community. They'll have opinion articles for months to come stemming from this single article.
Hmmm, well I guess billiards (cue ball to the nuts) and bowling (fractured kneecap) are still on the list.LordOpie said:
Randy Johnson threw a fastball WAY over Kruk's head to the backstop. The next two pitches, Kruk stepped backwards out of the box as he swung half-assed. He said after the game that he just wanted to get the hell out of there.LordOpie said:
I thought that was because you were fat.LordOpie said:
Kidding, *kidding*-S.S.-
ath·lete (n. )
A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength, agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts.
A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength, agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts.
sport ( P ) Pronunciation Key (spôrt, sprt)
n.
Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.
A particular form of this activity.
An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.
An active pastime; recreation.
n.
Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.
A particular form of this activity.
An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.
An active pastime; recreation.
This type of article absolutely infuriates me I bet this guy is some obese sports writer who never lifts a thumb to go out on his own and actually exercise. This is the type of dude that sits at home on Sunday throughout the fall jerking off to Howe long do play to play up to his armpits in wings and beer. I doubt i have ever been exposed to a more blatant sample of journalistic ignorance in my life. He can sit around, watch football,argue over meaningless statistics, bash Lance all he wants. He is still badass period.
I agree that my definition is not THE definition, but then I don't think there is a THE definition. Everyone has different ideas of what atheltics are, and what it takes to be an athlete. I have mine, and I tried to support my opinion.ghostrider said:
And let me reiterate... it's not about taking one person from their sport and ploping them in another sport and telling them to compete at a high level. Look at Michael Jordan. Anyone here care to argue he's not a world class athlete? Look what he did in baseball. So I don't think the Tiger following Lance on a bike thing holds any water.
What I'm saying is that, IMO, it takes more god-given ability to hit a golf ball straight 300 yards or hit a baseball 450 feet than it does to pedal up a mountain. Again, I'm not saying that Lance isn't an incredible athlete, or that cycling isn't a sport (especially in the middle of a peleton at 40mph), but I don't think Lance should be mentioned in the same breath as the cream of the crop athletes who compete in the big 3 sports.
If this clerifies anything for people...
The greatest athelete I've ever seen "play" (that I can think of off the top of my head) is Jaromir Jagr - the hockey player. This guy has great strenght, amazing body control, unbelievable hand-eye coordination, and above average stamina. Barry Sanders is a close second.
Holy moly. The writer just continues to pull in the carp, one by one.
Do you think this guy wrote this article for any other reason than to get a rise out of bike fans??
I figured that everyone would see right thought it. <shrug>
-S.S.-
Do you think this guy wrote this article for any other reason than to get a rise out of bike fans??
I figured that everyone would see right thought it. <shrug>
-S.S.-
Nope. Just like I would never argue that Lance isn't either.jacksonpt said:
This is where you lose me. How could anybody ever know this? You've never done any of those things. You likely don't know anybody who has. How could you possibly know? "Big Three" sports my ass. Popularity is no measurement of difficulty when it comes to sports.jacksonpt said:
agreed its still bullsh1t thoughSkaredShtles said:
How is it fixed? Separating pro's from amateurs doesn't make sense. Are you saying that because I can't hit a baseball 450 feet like a pro, that hitting a baseball 450 feet is not an athletic achievement? I don't think I understand your point.LordOpie said:
Echo said:
May I add to your list Echo? Thanks.
3) or 4) or maybe even 2) endure the smell of the french people for a month...
Juuuuuuuuust kidding!
Hahaha!SkaredShtles said:
NO! :mumble:dh girlie said:
Every year that Lance wins the TDF (or an athlete of the year award) some asswipe writer somewhere writes something like that article. I don't even have to read it to know what it says.SkaredShtles said:
I'm not discussing the article because it's only purpose is to generate web hits and interest for that stupid ass newspaper.
I'm discussing the statements by a couple of people here.
You're right, I don't know, no one knows... you can't measure athletic ability. That's why it's just an opinion. I do play golf, and I can hit the ball 300 yards (relatively straight). I've tried to play baseball and can't, and I can pedal up a mountain. Granted I can't do it like tiger woods or lance armstrong, but I can do it. From my experience with golf and cycling... you can't really learn a good golf swing. You can do little things here and there to make a bad swing less bad, but you can't go to a trainer and say make me swing like Freddy Couples (I love his swing). But in cycling, you can spend a bzillion hours on a bike to increase your stamina and lower body strength to elite levels. Obviously there's a lot more to golf than a decent swing, and there's a lot more to cycling than lower body strength and endurance.ghostrider said:
And I only used the big 3 because they are the most popular... everyone knows who Michael Jordan, Derek Jeter, and Kobe Bryant are... not everyone knows the star soccer players or the world class rugby players. Aside from Lance, I'd bet that 90% of America doesn't know Jan Ullrich, Tyler Hamilton, or any of the other top riders.
You keep trying to point out holes in my arguement, why not support yours. I'm by no means close minded about all this - if you can put together a good "arguement", I could be persuaded to think differently.
He lives in Provo, of course he's obese. I'd put money down that at least 80% of the population in Utah County (AKA Happy Valley, Hell, BYU-Land, Kingdom of the Zoobies) is. It's probably the scariest place in Utah you can go (Even scarier than Utah itself!)manhattanprjkt83 said:
Don't make generalizations like that, only the men are fat, the women are all thin.
Hahahaha
I almost got run off the road going up Provo Canyon to Sundance a couple weeks ago by quite a plump woman in a Mazda Miata.
On second thought, I should email this guy and challenge him, in all his athleticness, to a sprint up American Fork Canyon. 
ink:
I almost got run off the road going up Provo Canyon to Sundance a couple weeks ago by quite a plump woman in a Mazda Miata.
On second thought, I should email this guy and challenge him, in all his athleticness, to a sprint up American Fork Canyon.
ink:
It's all opinions....I dont think baseball players are that athletic (they spend 95 % of their time just standing or sitting on a bench)
I definitely dont think bowlers or golfers are that athletic either
Most Nascar drivers/fans.....considered the drivers to be athletes (due to the ability to endure the heat/concentration combined with the skill needed to drive that fast for so long)
What about billards, similar to golf being you dont need any cardio, just skill - so billard players athletes? chess players?
I definitely dont think bowlers or golfers are that athletic either
Most Nascar drivers/fans.....considered the drivers to be athletes (due to the ability to endure the heat/concentration combined with the skill needed to drive that fast for so long)
What about billards, similar to golf being you dont need any cardio, just skill - so billard players athletes? chess players?
If it's on an ESPN channel, it must be a sport. That goes for the spelling bee, the hot dog eating contest, billiards, poker, high school cheerleading, the World's Strongest Man contest, skeet shooting, bass fishing, and the annual RV show.
Blah blah.. There's a lot of things I'd like to respond to in pieces of this thread but this one statement pretty much covers them:
There is no way that normal people end up like Lance, any more than normal people end up like Michael Jordan or Tiger Woods. There is clearly a genetic force at work here. Lance Armstrong is predisposed to being extremely good at endurance sports - I'm sure if he took up running he could do well, too.
People can train as hard as they like, and certain people will always rise to the top. That isn't to bring down Lance's achievement at all, but there is no way in hell that the average Joe can end up like that, no matter how much they train. Lance is gifted.
And frankly, being gifted has nothing to do with being an athlete anyway. I don't even understand how this could be a question. If you don't like the sport, fine, but even synchronized swimming is a sport, as stupid as it is, and don't take away from the people who participate by saying it's not.
There is no way that normal people end up like Lance, any more than normal people end up like Michael Jordan or Tiger Woods. There is clearly a genetic force at work here. Lance Armstrong is predisposed to being extremely good at endurance sports - I'm sure if he took up running he could do well, too.
People can train as hard as they like, and certain people will always rise to the top. That isn't to bring down Lance's achievement at all, but there is no way in hell that the average Joe can end up like that, no matter how much they train. Lance is gifted.
And frankly, being gifted has nothing to do with being an athlete anyway. I don't even understand how this could be a question. If you don't like the sport, fine, but even synchronized swimming is a sport, as stupid as it is, and don't take away from the people who participate by saying it's not.
Welll said... and for teh record, he competed at a pretty high level in triathelons before he comitted full time to cycling.binary visions said: