[xy9ine]

really.......?

the 223 is my favorite orange ever aesthetically. big angular box downtube in conjunction w/ small straight top & seattubes looks badass imo. granted, i'd pref. the lower pivot of the 224...

 

[Slater]

long as the moment arm of the rear end is essentially in line with the force exerted by the chain (which, IMHO, this design has accomplished) then there will be very little force transferred to the suspension. Therefore it does not need an idler.

And yes as the bike compresses, the chain line and the pivot are not as well lined up, but really how much pedaling do you do while your bike is at full squish?

Even the magical VPP design transfers pedaling force through the chain to the suspension but nobody ever suggests that the V-10 needs a pulley.

My e-nalysis is complete, thank you.

You're confusing two different aspects of an Idler. First is reducing chain growth, which is what the original comments was regarding. Second is its affect on anti-squat. They are related, but not 1:1. Chainline has nothing to do with the amount of chain growth any given linkage has. You can have great anti-squat numbers, and still tons chain growth resulting in significant pedal kickback.

Also, since you enjoy physics, perhaps this is of interest to you:
http://raystrax.com/PathAnalysis/pa54.html

 

[Pslide]

So what's the deal with this mid-travel dead spot?

It's regardless of shock?

If this is indeed the case, then are we saying every bike with a near-linear, almost constant rate leverage ratio is also going to have a mid-travel dead spot?

Just never heard this before.

 

[Steve M]

You suck at life. Trying to talk trash on my physics skilz.

As long as the moment arm of the rear end is essentially in line with the force exerted by the chain (which, IMHO, this design has accomplished) then there will be very little force transferred to the suspension. Therefore it does not need an idler.

And yes as the bike compresses, the chain line and the pivot are not as well lined up, but really how much pedaling do you do while your bike is at full squish?

Even the magical VPP design transfers pedaling force through the chain to the suspension but nobody ever suggests that the V-10 needs a pulley.

My e-nalysis is complete, thank you.

The "moment arm of the rear end"? Could you please be a bit more vague as for a minute there I thought that made some kind of sense. Force transferred to the suspension? There is ALWAYS load transferred to the suspension under acceleration, it's the level of equilibrium between extensive and compressive forces that you need to be concerned about. I don't generally pedal my bike at bottom out, but I also don't generally pedal it at top-out.

VPP "transfers pedalling force through the chain to the suspension"? Really? I thought the whole purpose of the VPP linkage was to remove the ability for the chain to exert any kind of force on anything, thereby preventing bobbing by removing the possibility for acceleration! Everyone wins!

Seriously though, read that link Slater put up. As far as pedalling performance goes, VPP is yet another marketing ploy based on flawed theories anyway.