[Brian HCM#1]

Hmmm. I have never sat in a city or state council meeting. Members of my family involved in California politics do regularly though.

You should sit through one. Just as you think you're getting someplace with the board, the Sierra Club and equestrian parade start in. Right there every damn time, you see all the members on the board nodding aknowleging what they are saying. After their little slide show presentation, we the MTB community is shot down once again. I've been riding MTB since 1991 so I've been there done that when it comes to the trail fight. The best way to win this battle is get some younger hipper blood on the council board, and push that way. As long as it's the same group, it ain't gonna work.

 

[sanjuro]

Why do you equate stating facts with quashing? Facts are facts.

I am going to step away from the personal side of this. Let me ask you a very simple question.

This girl wants to write a paper for school about opening trail access. Besides the fact that your vanity is insulted by her naivete, what is the harm?

 

[justsomeguy]

Besides the fact that your vanity is insulted by her naivete,

Are you truly this dense in real life? I merely continue to be amused by her, and now your, naivete.

Amused does not equal "insulted" to anyone with a brain.

what is the harm?

That's a red herring.

I never claimed that it was harmful nor do I think it is harmful.

 

[pbr]

The Sierra Club bans together to keep bikes and cyclist off the good trails(legally at least), and mountain bikers bitch and whine and discourage others from trying to do anything about it.

That about sums it up.

 

[justsomeguy]

The Sierra Club bans together to keep bikes and cyclist off the good trails(legally at least), and mountain bikers bitch and whine and discourage others from trying to do anything about it.

That about sums it up.

If you think that this discussion and what you perceive to be "bitching and whining" is the sum of mountain biker's efforts to keep trails open then you are incredibly clueless.

 

[OGRipper]

The Sierra Club bans together to keep bikes and cyclist off the good trails(legally at least), and mountain bikers bitch and whine and discourage others from trying to do anything about it.

That about sums it up.

Nothing sums up a complex issue like a couple of gross generalizations.

 

[thePINKster]

If you think that this discussion and what you perceive to be "bitching and whining" is the sum of mountain biker's efforts to keep trails open then you are incredibly clueless.

notice how everyone else seems to be clueless but yourself...

i would ask that you take a step back and look at what everyone is saying, but i know you would fire back with some kind of insult, and i'm tired of them.

My paper was meant to be a positive, good thing that could be sent in to the city.. it addresses more issues than erosion, and building unauthorized stunts....

it also addresses facts that while childhood obesity is a huge problem, they continue closing trails... and that mountainbiking is a HUGE anti-drug to kids, that i know from personal experience.

justsomeguy: i know you aren't going to understand what i've been trying to say, but i hope someday you get a slap in the face and understand it...

my paper is in its final editing phase. i got an offer from norcamba, and i will send in the final draft to them. i will also be stopping in bikeshops all around the bay area to send out petitions, and if you are interested in the cause, i would suggest going to a local bike shop and asking about this.


all this talk about sitting thru council meetings has me interested... does anyone know the times and dates... i will personally sit thru one and gain as much as i can.

i already said in my first post that this might fail, and i'm open to accept defeat, but i am going to try..

 

[black noise]

This thread makes me cry.

Great job Chrissie for doing something about legalizing trails, you're doing a lot more for biking than a lot of us here can say.

Even though you're so confused, naive, young, and clueless.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

all this talk about sitting thru council meetings has me interested... does anyone know the times and dates... i will personally sit thru one and gain as much as i can.

Pay attention to flyer's at the local trails or bike shops. They can be more painful to sit through than a root canal. You just sit back and start to cringe when the hippies start their little speech:redhot:

 

[justsomeguy]

justsomeguy: i know you aren't going to understand what i've been trying to say, but i hope someday you get a slap in the face and understand it...

I understand perfectly well what you're "trying to say." It just that what you're "trying to say" is based upon a number of misunderstandings about the trails in question, the reasons for their closure (s), how likely it is for a Super Law Granny to get them opened, etc.

Noting the rise in obesity and drug use are fine subjects for an argumentative paper but have absolutely no bearing on getting the trails in question opened to bikes, in the real world

Again, just the facts.

 

[thePINKster]

Noting the rise in obesity and drug use are fine subjects for an argumentative paper but have absolutely no bearing on getting the trails in question opened to bikes, in the real world.

well it IS an argumentative paper... and i figured noting that taking away trails does hinder the youth's activities that could replace the bad habits of drugs, over-eating, or lethargic tv watching. when you weigh out more facts, it does take a toll. they are also issues that non-mountainbikers would pay attention to.

if i want to convince people, i need to understand my audience and what they will benefit from it. "just the facts"

 

[freerider858]

I dont want to repeat everythingt that everybody said but I feel the need to say something. Im 16 as well and have been active in the cycling world only for around 3 years. Im a member of IMBA. Ive done trail work, sat through 8 hours of trail building classes, gone to comitte meetings. Ive tried hard. I even am considering using my Eagle Project to benefit the biking community. I live in a place where there are thousands of singletrack trails just sitting there...no horses ride them but still I cant ride them. I decided to try to change this. I met the trail comitte head and spent weeks scouting trails, taking pictures, gathering statistics, hours after school writing up arguments...the whole nine yards. When I approached the comittee, I realized that they were all equestrians. This is where you get screwed over. There very conservsative, close-minded, and old. Sorry for the stereotype...they treated me like a kid,and even though I am one, they didnt respect me. After my disasster I gave up and started to poach trails. Then I got a ticket. Chrissie you will probably run into some problems but I admire what you are doing. There are always hardships but they exist so we can overcome them. I know how the system works from the little experience I have had so I understand where Just Some Guy and Brian HCM1 are coming from but I think that we should encourage any action taken to promote the sport. I agree, that this faction between riders doesnt help the disoragnized image of mountain bikers. If we whant to make an impact we need to unite and show people that we can come together as a community. Chrissie, if you need any help Id love to help any way I can just pm me or something. Good luck.

 

[Xvert]

I fully encourage and wish you good luck on your efforts. I'll be on the look out for your petitions and flyers. Too bad some of the "older" generation members (of which I not proudly am a part off) are so negative. I hope they don't have children. I encourge my kids to try anything that is worthwhile, no matter how seemingly impossible.

BTW, I coach for the Clayton YMCA...mentioned mountainbiking and BOOM, next season now has a MTB camp.

Good luck and keep us (interested) posted.

 

[thePINKster]

thanks so much for the support guys!

sorry, but the petitions are not finished yet. they will be delayed to be put into bikeshops until next week. Sorry, but finals have sort of taken over my life this week, and pressure from the rents to do well on em.

i will announce when petitions are officially in bike shops. i will also have one on hand to have friends sign.

again, does anyone know when the city counsel meets????

 

[thePINKster]

BTW, I coach for the Clayton YMCA...mentioned mountainbiking and BOOM, next season now has a MTB camp

awesome!!! the clayton YMCA will have a mtb camp?!?! this is great news.

do they need any volunteers? i'd be happy to help. and how young can the campers be? i'd like to let my little brother participate in something like that.

 

[Xvert]

https://www.memberst.com/programs/SessionDetails.aspx?id=A776974F-DC30-42F6-B35A-C5E69C2C9D70&sid=359018


Program Name: CCY - Specialty Camps
Session Name: Mt. Diablo Mountain Bike Adventure Camp
Description: Calling all mountain bike enthusiasts! This one-day camp is for you. The camp will begin with a one hour class filled with great tips to help master the mountain and will include a segment on nutrition. Following the class, campers will be taken on a fun and exciting ride on the trails of Mount Diablo. The only thing that campers are required to bring is a mountain bike and helmet that fits and an attitude that fits.
Requirements: For children entering sixth through eighth grade.
Registration Dates: 02/15/06 to 07/17/06
Session Dates: 07/22/06 to 07/22/06
Location: Mt. Diablo
Days of the Week: Saturday
Session Times: 9:00 am - 2:00 pm
Instructor Name: Delise Young
Instructor Phone: 925-889-1625


Ask for Delise Young, program director if you can volunteer. It's only XC though but that may change if we can open up Mach 5 and more local single track.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

well it IS an argumentative paper... and i figured noting that taking away trails does hinder the youth's activities that could replace the bad habits of drugs, over-eating, or lethargic tv watching. when you weigh out more facts, it does take a toll. they are also issues that non-mountainbikers would pay attention to.

if i want to convince people, i need to understand my audience and what they will benefit from it. "just the facts"

Got to remember their huge comeback. We encourage people to get out & ride & exercise!!!!!!!!



Just not on the singletrack

 

[justsomeguy]

Too bad some of the "older" generation members (of which I not proudly am a part off) are so negative.

Again, why must stating facts be negative?

I hope they don't have children.

Wow. Because someone is realistic, knowledgable and involved with local trail access issues and states the facts, you "hope they don't have children"?

Of course I have children. If you've ever gone out for lunch or dinner in Clayton you've probably seen them at Ed's, Skip's, La Veranda, etc. Or at St. Bonaventure.

They also ride mountain bikes, without the aid of a YMCA day camp. Simply amazing!

 

[black noise]

Again, why must stating facts be negative?

Well, let's have a recap.

Good luck with your paper but realistically you have zero chance of opening those hiking trails to mountain bikes, despite having Super Law Granny

If it's productive, what kind of results has she produced?

You are once again very confused.
Your "paper" doesn't annoy me. It makes me chuckle.
You're confusing being annoyed with being amused at your naivete.

That's just more validation of your cluelessness kid. Because I think your idiotic fantasies are goofy I don't ride?

This whole time all you've been doing is being condecending and discouraging. Yes, you stated some facts. Then because Chrissie decided to try anyway and her friend got mad because you weren't being all that supportive, you turned into a dick and started bitching about how she's just a kid, her paper is a "paper", and she makes you laugh. I don't care how much experience you have or how awesome your facts are, shut up unless you're actually going to help out. If you really care about opening up trails you should be welcoming people with enthusiasm about it and helping them out with your experience. Instead you decide to be "realistic" and shut them down and mock them. Way to go.

 

[justsomeguy]

Well, let's have a recap.

Yes, let's do that.

Good luck with your paper but realistically you have zero chance of opening those hiking trails to mountain bikes, despite having Super Law Granny

Fact.

If it's productive, what kind of results has she produced?

Not a fact. A question (which remains unanswered). stratguy1618 claimed that "At least shes doing something productive, and for a good cause." and I'm still trying to figure out what the product is, if she's been so productive. Tilting at windmills doesn't count as doing something productive.

You are once again very confused.
Your "paper" doesn't annoy me. It makes me chuckle.
You're confusing being annoyed with being amused at your naivete.

Fact, fact, and fact.

That's just more validation of your cluelessness kid. Because I think your idiotic fantasies are goofy I don't ride?

Not a fact. A question that illustrates just how silly a particular comment was, and is.

If you really care about opening up trails you should be welcoming people with enthusiasm about it and helping them out with your experience.

Why is someone required to "welcome people" even if they are way off base and are destined to be ineffective due to their fundamental lack of understanding of the issues in question?

Look, I can see how these simple distinctions confuse you.

After all, you're the starry-eyed kid that thinks that capitalism/free market economies are evil, despite never having taken an economics class and not understanding how they work. You're also the kid who likes to drape himself in a pseudo-environmental aura of anti-oil consumption/just-ride-a bike holiness (While at the same time having mommy and daddy burn oil driving you to your rides and shuttling rather than actually pedaling your bike uphill...).

 

[sanjuro]

Again, why must stating facts be negative?

Come on now. You can admit or deny whatever you want. You can claim "you speak only the facts".

Here's two facts for you:

1. You turned a girl's simple request into a huge battle.
2. You received quite a bit negative feedback from the rider community, particularily riders from the Bay Area.

I like how you and your buddy JD find the tiny crack and make into a huge hole. Most people aren't prepared for this kind of negativity, and any victory you score is from riders who want nothing to do with you.

I just don't understand if you got such big issues with this site, why don't you just ignore them?

 

[justsomeguy]

1. You turned a girl's simple request into a huge battle.

Huge battle? You're quite the drama queen aren't you? It's not a battle sally, it's a discussion about the trail access realities in the East Bay.

2. You received quite a bit negative feedback from the rider community, particularily riders from the Bay Area.

LOL! "The rider community" ????

A few confused kids coupled with a few inexepreinced and/or naive "adults" complaining and a few other riders agreeing with me equals "negative feedback from the rider community"?

I just don't understand if you got such big issues with this site, why don't you just ignore them?

You just love to jump to conclusions/make wild assumptions don't you?

Why do you fantasize that I "got(sic)...big issues" (there's the drama queen in you shining through again) with this site?

You're apparently even more confused than I gave you credit for.

 

[SPrider]

so who likes to ride bicycles, i DO, leave the arguing to jerry springer

 

[PatBranch]

so who likes to ride bicycles, i DO, leave the arguing to jerry springer

Biking is fun!

Justsomeguy, why the hell do you have to post so many negative facts?

As said before, any effort to help the situation is better than none (I can state a fact too!) Yes, there is not a lot (not nothing) that can be done to help the situation, but what is so wrong with trying? If she is wrong about things, why not simply help her (as she asked)?

 

[sanjuro]

Pete,

Like I said, you're very good at making minor disputes into major battles. I re-read the start of this thread, and I realize now this isn't about petitions or trail openings. You made a smart-ass comment to a teenage girl about her grandmother, and she took the bait. Most adults would just ignore that kind of lousy attitude.

Is it cool to be an ass? I could write some more nasty things if I wanted to. You already know that I am good at that kind of thing, unless you have something else to say about wet trails and generalizations. But would that solve anything?

I am a real person. I work only a few miles from Clayton. I ride the same trails as you do, and you ride trails that I have worked on. And I have ridden trails that you have worked on.

I have less respect for you because of the crap you wrote here. I have no influence on your life and I certainly mean you no harm. But when we meet, and I suspect it will be sooner than later, I'll just be indifferent towards you, rather than be friendly. And that's sad, because I like to think every rider could be a friend of mine.

Steve

 

[alloutproductio]

woooo,
didnt even want to get in on yet another weakass punk debate started by justomeguy,but damn, making rude comments about a 15 yr old girls grandma,
& her 'slobbering boy-toy'!!!
you just took the 'intellectual debate' you started n dropped it a few low, low notches....
i'd love to see chrissie smoke you on a bike, n then smack the $hit out of your ass!

 

[Xvert]

Pete,

Like I said, you're very good at making minor disputes into major battles. I re-read the start of this thread, and I realize now this isn't about petitions or trail openings. You made a smart-ass comment to a teenage girl about her grandmother, and she took the bait. Most adults would just ignore that kind of lousy attitude.

Is it cool to be an ass? I could write some more nasty things if I wanted to. You already know that I am good at that kind of thing, unless you have something else to say about wet trails and generalizations. But would that solve anything?

I am a real person. I work only a few miles from Clayton. I ride the same trails as you do, and you ride trails that I have worked on. And I have ridden trails that you have worked on.

I have less respect for you because of the crap you wrote here. I have no influence on your life and I certainly mean you no harm. But when we meet, and I suspect it will be sooner than later, I'll just be indifferent towards you, rather than be friendly. And that's sad, because I like to think every rider could be a friend of mine.

Steve

Now it all makes sense. Good luck Pink!

 

[thePINKster]

so who likes to ride bicycles, i DO, leave the arguing to jerry springer

AMEN!

 

[RacerZ]

Chrissie, you mentioned in a previous post that you were sending in the final draft. If your paper is done I'd be interested in reading it.

Its too bad that all of that arguing sprung up, because this thread could have been a lot more help I'm sure without having to sort through the bickering.

Good luck with the paper if it isn't done yet, but if it is send me a PM

 

[stratguy1618]

Chrissie, you mentioned in a previous post that you were sending in the final draft. If your paper is done I'd be interested in reading it.

Its too bad that all of that arguing sprung up, because this thread could have been a lot more help I'm sure without having to sort through the bickering.

Good luck with the paper if it isn't done yet, but if it is send me a PM

I think shes pretty much done and her grandma has to read over it, she doesn't have the internet right now so Im just giving you an update, cuz I was talking about it with her yesterday.

 

[thePINKster]

I think shes pretty much done and her grandma has to read over it, she doesn't have the internet right now so Im just giving you an update, cuz I was talking about it with her yesterday.

yup.. that about sums it up.

the paper is done. the g-ma is gonna read it over, and then we'll write a petition.

i can send u an email with the paper in it once i've got the net at my house again.

 

[stratguy1618]

yeahhhh superrrr lawww grannnnyyyy!!!!!!!!!!