[norbar]

Well the weather sucks here and the Maribor park is closed for today for that reason so I decided instead of making an ass of myself a will write a review of my legend after a season of abuse.

First I want to say Im no pro. Im a mid pack rider that forgets every year to do his cardio in the off season so I ride light in the first part of the day and plow hanging on my bike for the latter part I also crash very often for no apparent reason so I tend to be abusive on my bikes.

Build quality and durability
Out of the box the Legend was mint. No problems with any parts, everything was aligned and the paint looked great. For the most part it stayed true for the whole season. No problems with the pivots and bearings (Im really happy they ditched the bushing idea they tried on the mk1) even after riding for a full month during a flood and pressure washing my bike every day for 10 days. Same for dust - 2 weeks in deep French dust with no problems.
The rear shock is well protected from mud if you didnt notice that on the photos.
Legend is also very durable and dent resistant. Ive ridden in very different conditions including loose rocks and Ive heard many loose rocks hit my frame. I also had a real crash-o-rama in Maribor last year when I had 2-3 bigger crashes a day. I maybe have 1 small dent but that also may be a dent in clear foil I cover all my frames with. I also have a few scratches from rocks on the chainstay that look like the bike was attacked by a hungry mountain lion. It will be easier for a rock to scrach the rear deep than to dent it. Ive also bottomed the frame on a few occasions with no real issues. It is also quite light at just under 4kg w/o shock. My current build weights 16.4kg and its quite burly with saint brakes and a silly 220mm rotor (needed a rotor fast and cheap)

I have one issue with Banshee Legend Quality - the green paint. While the black is very nice and durable the green logos are very easy to scratch and they pale in the sun. If you can Id go for one of the ano/polished versions.

The Ride
The legend needed no adjustment even though it could be a bit longer in the TT area. The bike feels very neutral geo wise. The low bb and frame CoG makes it feel very good in turns. I can lean far more than I previously suspected was possible. The 63.7 (64 on my bike) feels very good and I am really curious to try an angleset to slacken it out to 62 for steeper trails. Still 64 and a 117cm wheelbase make for a very stable bike.
The suspension performs very well. Its a bit more rearward than other non pulley frames so it carries speed over the rough with ease. Pedaling feels a bit strange at first but when you get used to it you realise that Legend pedals really well. There is also no excessive blowing through travel. It has a bit less pop than some other frames I tried but it is still possible to ride light on it.
Though I hear it is a bit too linear for a CCDB. Rc4 performs very well here.

The only bike I would change my legend for would be a large legend with a shorter stem (like Cesar did with his Mondraker). If you want a bike that you will never have to worry about, will take abuse well and will feel better the faster you go go with the Legend. Have in mind though that a Medium Legend feels short for my 179cm when I use a 45mm stem.


btw. Sorry for the lack of quality photos but Ive been having too much fun on it in the last season. Wanted to shoot some today but the weather killed that idea. Will post some as soon as possible

 

[Pslide]

Good review and good sense of humor! Your findings match mine, although I have a Mk1 (with bushing play), still waiting for a Mk2. Would like to mention great support from the guys at Banshee as well. They obviously do their homework and engineer things very well, I've got a lot of respect for Keith. Solid bike, solid company.

 

[frango]

I see you took time to write this review while the bike park was close
You, didn't mention, that this gorgeous black paint is not even mat. Is looks like sand blasted. Which caused frequent ranting (?) of yours during our 2010 trip to France, after you washed the bike

However, I must admit. Norbar has never said anything bad about the frame during 2 weeks of shredding Franch Alps

 

[norbar]

Yup. Silly of me to forget that. Very good support from banshee and its always good to get some info straight from the designer instead of some randumb mail guy.


btw. I will write some gear reviews, probably tommorow. One thing I can say - the 2011 Twenty6 Prerunners hold up to abuse very well. Grinded the sides to the metal, the pins got a bit shorter and even sharper(do not recomend without shin pads) but nothing of the problems the 2010 supposedly had. They are heavier though.

As for the paint.
It is matte but it has a strange facture to it which means that often when I washed it quick it looked clean wet but when it tried it was still covered in dust. Muck off does the job.

 

[climbingbubba]

Nice write up. Just got mine built up and it does feel a bit cramped but manageable.

Im pretty sure the black is anodized though and not painted. That would explain the durability and the hard to clean nature.

If you get a second could measure your bar height for me? From the ground to your grips

 

[norbar]

Nice write up. Just got mine built up and it does feel a bit cramped but manageable.

Im pretty sure the black is anodized though and not painted. That would explain the durability and the hard to clean nature.

If you get a second could measure your bar height for me? From the ground to your grips

I will do it tommorow. I'm broken and don't want to go to my fathers place where I keep my dh bike (not enough place at my flat for 4 bikes ).

As for anodise - the black maybe but the green on it probably not as it really fades as hell. My bike is now called I_gend mk2

 

[climbingbubba]

I will do it tommorow. I'm broken and don't want to go to my fathers place where I keep my dh bike (not enough place at my flat for 4 bikes ).

As for anodise - the black maybe but the green on it probably not as it really fades as hell. My bike is now called I_gend mk2

no problem, Im trying to figure out the relation between how a bike feels (cockpit wise) and the bar height/width. I understand that lower and wider makes the cockpit feel longer but at some point does it make you feel like your looking straight down at the front wheel? Im guessing there is a point where its too low/wide. Also adding +/- wingspan to the mix and torso/leg length.

A few guys rode mine and mentioned mine felt a little tall so I am toying with the idea of getting a drop stem. It does feel a bit high so today im going to lower the crowns a bit and take the spacer out from under the upper crown.

I figured the green was paint, I was referring to the black. Now I have 2 black ano frames

 

[norbar]

I went too low and strangely it feels longer with the 1cm spacer. Maybe because it forced me to slouch a bit. Never had problems with looking at the front wheel but I like the steeps.

 

[climbingbubba]

Finally got a few runs on it today. All I can say is WOW!!! It really does rail the corners but the most notable thing is that the bike stays planted. The traction was unreal.

I ended up trading a friend my stem for a 50mm drop stem (straitline). It also made me slouch like you said which helped it feel more roomy. I didn't want the full drop so I lowered the fork in the crowns (made the for taller, front end higher) so in the end I probably dropped the bars 15mm and raised the fork up 10mm.

i'll post a pic up once i get my new rear shock and im toying with the idea of getting new rims/spokes for it to drop a little more weight.

 

[RedOne]

Built my Legend today.
Looks great.

First look - welds and surface finish could be cleaner on a frame of that price.
Had or still have a Nicolai and a Morewood and I am a bit spoilt by their level of quality.
But threads on the frame are ok, and they even covered the brake mount when they put the clear coat on my polished frame.

Bearings on the Legend are huge, even those of the upper lever and it feels absolutely plush from the first second. Positive surprise as I heard the RC4 needs some time to break in and my last Fox shocks always felt pretty sticky compared to my Marzocchi shocks or the BOS Stoy of my friend.

I will ride it tomorrow, trying to find a good setup for that RC4 Dorado combo.

 

[norbar]

Yeah it's not comparable to that high quality non tw frames (and lapierre which for some reason has crazy build quality) but of the TW frames I know they are in the lead.

 

[Steve M]

Yeah it's not comparable to that high quality non tw frames (and lapierre which for some reason has crazy build quality) but of the TW frames I know they are in the lead.

I think it's pretty hard to go past Specialized for Taiwan-made quality... their frames are impeccable. The Banshees are decently finished but they're not at that level yet.

 

[norbar]

A small extra review of the front wheel. Complete weight 860g and it holds up great.

Deetrax Hub
Comp Spokes
ZTR Flow Rims
This crazy wheel build from our local wheel guru (apparently dt invented it, I have no idea about wheel building so I'm ignorant).

Being a hack I'm quite heavy on the wheels, I also tend to run very little pressure and Maribor is one of the worst places to test a wheel (or the best if you want to trash it). It was perfectly true with no dents event after insta stopping on a tree stump and later on braking my pinky on a front heavy crash.

 

[ianjenn]

A small extra review of the front wheel. Complete weight 860g and it holds up great.

Deetrax Hub
Comp Spokes
ZTR Flow Rims
This crazy wheel build from our local wheel guru (apparently dt invented it, I have no idea about wheel building so I'm ignorant).

Being a hack I'm quite heavy on the wheels, I also tend to run very little pressure and Maribor is one of the worst places to test a wheel (or the best if you want to trash it). It was perfectly true with no dents event after insta stopping on a tree stump and later on braking my pinky on a front heavy crash.

You talking about tying the spokes? Been done since mid 80's I think Zipp used to sell zipties just for that. Once wheel bends its hard to get it back. Main issues with it.

 

[norbar]

I will ask how it's called. The with who I build them is one of the best builders around so I trust him on that. Most of my friends have been using his wheels and they seem to live longer than other builders.

 

[-BB-]

Norbar,
I'm about the same height as you and I'm also looking into a MK2 frame.
I recently picked up a Spitfire in Medium and I think that is about the perfect size for me bc I'm long legged (and arms) but shorter torso. In fact, I couldn't even use the seatpost that came with the Spitty bc it wasn't long enough. Others at the same height who might be more torso than leg are digging the Lg (again, on the spitfire).

So what about you? You say that a Lg might have been better for you than this Medium. Are you more leg or more torso?

 

[norbar]

Norbar,
I'm about the same height as you and I'm also looking into a MK2 frame.
I recently picked up a Spitfire in Medium and I think that is about the perfect size for me bc I'm long legged (and arms) but shorter torso. In fact, I couldn't even use the seatpost that came with the Spitty bc it wasn't long enough. Others at the same height who might be more torso than leg are digging the Lg (again, on the spitfire).

So what about you? You say that a Lg might have been better for you than this Medium. Are you more leg or more torso?

I have no idea. I have pretty long arms, never measured my Torso but I tend to like long bikes (my last one was 0.5 inch longer with a 1 5deg steeper ha so the reach was probably much longer). The thing is Large is bigger than the medium by a fair bit so if you feel shorter in the torso it may be shortish though you could always bug Cesar Rojo to release that 0mm stem of his For now I want to try a 55mm stem but it is not like I feel super cramped on the bike. My good friend also rides a medium and is the same height and feels great on it. You should be fine.

 

[ianjenn]

I am 6 foot 1 inch tall and wear a 34-35" inseam pants. The Large fits me well. A short tester is 5'10" and he can get by riding it alright.

 

[norbar]

I am 6 foot 1 inch tall and wear a 34-35" inseam pants. The Large fits me well. A short tester is 5'10" and he can get by riding it alright.

Wow I must have some crazy cockpit setup as a lot ppl comment my bike feels a bit short in there so a short with almost my height? . It's not unrideable short but they claim it is noticable. 780mm bars I think should come with the stem change. Maybe that will change the feel.

 

[karpi]

Im 6 foot and ride a Large. I had the same dilema. I was contemplaiting getting a medium and slapping a 60 mm stem on it... that could also work. For now, the Large couldnt be better.

 

[ianjenn]

Wow I must have some crazy cockpit setup as a lot ppl comment my bike feels a bit short in there so a short with almost my height? . It's not unrideable short but they claim it is noticable. 780mm bars I think should come with the stem change. Maybe that will change the feel.

Oh no I meant the shortest rider that has spent time on it is about 5' 9"-5' 10" and he says it is okay. I could for sure ride a medium BTW. I spent 1-2 years racing a Titus SM in a size SMALL! So short bikes are no big deal to me.

 

[adstock]

Planning on ordering a Legend MKII this week. Anyone have experience running with a CCDB or should I stick with the RC4? Price would be about the same..

 

[RedOne]

Are suspension graphs for the Legend Mk2 available somewhere?

 

[karpi]

there should be some on the banshee blogspot, look it up under the legend MK II part, should all be there

 

[RedOne]

Nope, can't find any graphs for the Legend there.

 

[RedOne]

Read some things about suspension lately.
Is there something like a sweet spot in the RC4 setup, where it works best regarding oil flow et cetera?
Something you should see as a target setup to choose the right spring weight, apart from simple sag measurement.

I landed at 145 psi Boostvalve pressure, 1 turn on the bottom-out adjuster, and a 375lbs spring for 190-195lbs rider weight without gear. Can't really say where in the range of the other adjusters i am at the moment.
Played a lot with a DHX in my last bike. There definitely was a sweet spot in the boostvalve pressure range.

 

[Pslide]

Read some things about suspension lately.
Is there something like a sweet spot in the RC4 setup, where it works best regarding oil flow et cetera?

What are you trying to achieve?

The biggest issues I faced in setting up my RC4 on my Legend was #1 - correct spring rate to compensate for the high internal pressures of the damper itself, #2 - running higher boost pressure and more bottom out for more progression, and #3 - reducing HSC to try and improve small bump sensitivity.

When it's all said and done, the shock still doesn't have the small bump sensitivity of my CCDB, and you can't open it up as much as the new CCDB either. The RC4 just feels a little "thick" - more damped compared to a CCDB running fairly open (opposite of how many folks run them). RC4 is still a great shock though, and provides good mid-travel support and consistent feel.

 

[RedOne]

There is hardly anything to complain about. But it could be a bit more active mid-travel.

Possibly someone can give a recommendation if it's possibly better to run a specific boostvalve pressure and adjust compression to it, or to set compression to a specific range and adjust boostvalve pressure. Or something like stay away from this or that extreme setting.

I think I have closed both compression adjusters around 1/3 of the full range from fully open.

And yes I agree with you that the RC4 is a good and consistent feeling shock, a lot better than the old DHX.

Fox Tech Center is saying that 160 psi is factory setting and pressure is only changing end-stroke damping and bottom out control.
It did not feel like air pressure is really changing bottom-out resistance when i played with it, or at least not as effective as turning in the bottom-out adjuster.

 

[Pslide]

There is hardly anything to complain about. But it could be a bit more active mid-travel.

I've got no magic bullet for you there.

I do run different settings than you: 175 psi boost, bottom out wound all the way in, and HSC almost all the way open. I found this to be my preference, but I wouldn't call it overly active mid-range.

I know this doesn't help you, but to make Legend feel really active and poppy, I put on my CCDB with higher spring rate so the bike rides higher in its travel (and more in the progressive part of the leverage curve) and run the compression pretty open. I wouldn't run this type of setup for racing though.

 

[norbar]

I run close to minimal pressure boost and maybe 1-2 clicks bottom out but I had over 40% sag, now I'm on 33% back again so I will open it again. I will also back up the HSC.


I'm still very curious about trying an avy in the back of my legend but right now I need to fix my dj and trailbike plus finally spend some cash for snowboard trips.

 

[baca262]

guys, download linkage, you have legend's model and suspension graphs there. leverage ratio is progressive in some first 3/5 of travel than digressive so you want a shock with good bottoming resistance.

 

[norbar]

guys, download linkage, you have legend's model and suspension graphs there. leverage ratio is progressive in some first 3/5 of travel than digressive so you want a shock with good bottoming resistance.

Linkage models are not allways accurate. They are good to see the basic idea but some of them are really wrong because 3/4 of them are made from photos not measurement.

 

[baca262]

good point but i don't think it can be completely off about the leverage curve. guess you could measure, plot and calculate it yourself since you have the bike provided that you care enough btw it says how accurate it is on the right side

 

[ianjenn]

guys, download linkage, you have legend's model and suspension graphs there. leverage ratio is progressive in some first 3/5 of travel than digressive so you want a shock with good bottoming resistance.

I have had about 2 years on one..although not much lately. Has been hanging in garage. But it doesnt seem to be very regressive towards the end of travel. I am running a REVOX just rebuilt on it BTW.

 

[baca262]

yeah, not super regressive, i always forget that linkage scales the graph, forgot to look at the actual numbers:

 

[Steve M]

There is hardly anything to complain about. But it could be a bit more active mid-travel.

Possibly someone can give a recommendation if it's possibly better to run a specific boostvalve pressure and adjust compression to it, or to set compression to a specific range and adjust boostvalve pressure. Or something like stay away from this or that extreme setting.

I think I have closed both compression adjusters around 1/3 of the full range from fully open.

And yes I agree with you that the RC4 is a good and consistent feeling shock, a lot better than the old DHX.

Fox Tech Center is saying that 160 psi is factory setting and pressure is only changing end-stroke damping and bottom out control.
It did not feel like air pressure is really changing bottom-out resistance when i played with it, or at least not as effective as turning in the bottom-out adjuster.

Pslide is on the right track IMO - close the bottom out adjuster fully, bump the air pressure up (I'm 210lbs and run 200psi, would recommend 180-200 for you too), back the LSC out 12 clicks from full closed and HSC 10 clicks from full closed (should be about 2 clicks in from full open on the HSC), and increase them as you feel the need to. Rebound should be 5-7 clicks out from full closed depending on preference. Basically the reasoning for this kind of setup is that the mid-stroke support of the Legend is very strong, but the end-stroke support is a bit weaker, so in order to open up the mid stroke and make it a bit smoother without it bottoming all the time, you need to make the shock as progressive as possible. This is also part of the reason the CCDB just doesn't feel very good on this frame - in order to give decent bottom out resistance, you end up with something either heavily sprung or very heavily damped in the mid stroke.

Also at your weight I would suggest dropping to a 350 or 325lbs/in spring. I'm a bit heavier than you and comfortably running a 350 on my Legend.

 

[norbar]

Thanks. I had to compensate for me getting a bit heavier and using a neck brace (extra 1kg) so my sag got a bit extreme but now when I will go to normal settings I will try to work with what you wrote and see how much i need to change since I'm still a bit lighter.

 

[Red dog]

Dug this thread back up. I have had my legend for about 18 months always thought she labored a little under the pedals. Then i read this article http://www.nsmb.com/5063-not-a-bike-review. It goes on to suggest that the legend suspension is most efficient with a38t chain ring when compared to a 36t. would this small of a change in chain ring size make that big of difference in pedal efficiency? i have a 36t. So looking for advice from people who have run both 36t and 38t. the reason i ask is because i have to change chain devices, so before i go blowing cash i thought i'd go ask you guys for advice.

 

[norbar]

Never tried a 36T but from what I remember Keith suggests 38-40T. 38T pedals a bit strange but no bob for sure.


By the way I've got a new light wheel treat for my Legend. Super light spokes courtesy of Dartmoor bikes. I don't think they will go into sale but if anyone wants to know what are they really PM me.

 

[Pslide]

Dug this thread back up. I have had my legend for about 18 months always thought she labored a little under the pedals. Then i read this article http://www.nsmb.com/5063-not-a-bike-review. It goes on to suggest that the legend suspension is most efficient with a38t chain ring when compared to a 36t. would this small of a change in chain ring size make that big of difference in pedal efficiency? i have a 36t. So looking for advice from people who have run both 36t and 38t. the reason i ask is because i have to change chain devices, so before i go blowing cash i thought i'd go ask you guys for advice.

Hey dog,

I have found the pedaling efficiency of my Legend is quite sensitive to the amount of sag you run. I have only run a 38T, but when I run a lot of sag (40%) it does not pedal as solidly. I prefer a bike with snappy acceleration, so I tend to run a bit less sag...like 30-35%.

With regard to chainring size, running 36T will give the bike more chain induced anti-squat than a 38T, so 36T should accelerate better than a 38T (unless you don't like the feeling of a bit of chain tug). If you feel like the bike labors, going to 38T won't help. Check your sag first.