Hey folks need some advice. I already posted in the trials section with some help but I think maybe freeriders would know better. I need help. I'm pretty much a dummy. I've been mountain biking for about 15 years here in Vancouver and know a bit about biking. I can manual on any of my bikes, be it my Stinky D-L, my .243, and especially my old P.3. On my new trials bike I can't even get my front wheel off the ground more than 2-3 inches. Can't even land level off a curb going slow. Front tire first always. It's the brand new Zoo! Pitbull. I measured the dimensions and it's not too far off the .243. As you would expect doing a 'western' style bunny hop off the back tire is literally impossible for me. I can get at least a good 2 to 2-1/2 feet off even my 47+lb Stinky D-L. What gives? It seems that my front tire is stuck to the ground with elastic bands or something. I look uglier than Ugly Betty trying to do it. Please could anybody give me any insight before my hamstrings fall off? Thank you all very much!
Manual!?!
- Thread starter jjym
- Start date
I think that I've narrowed it down to how high the forks are. The handlebars are the exact same height. The difference is that from the axle to the bottom of the bottom headset there is a 5" difference. The trials bike frame is theoretically lower but I've got spacers on the steerer tube so the handlebars are exactly the same height. Things being equal like that shouldn't they behave the same? Maybe I answered my own question but I'd like someone with experience or knowledge of this so I can fix conclusively without buying more expensive parts trial and error style. Thanks everyone!
Well if you can manual/bunny hop your other bikes as consistant as you say then yes there's something going on with this that makes it hard to do that.
Lets narrow it down some...
I've been riding trials/street/DJ's for about 12+ years now and have ridden alot of each kind of bikes and have had my fair share of trials bikes over the years as well.
1)
First off is the stem height/length if you have a long stem with wide bars it puts your weight forward more thus making it much harder/more wobbly to pull the front end up. All of my trials bikes had short 80 or 90mm stems with a good set of riser bars and i've never had any trouble.
2) The geometry of the bike, trials bikes (especially the Zoo Pitbull) aren't really meant for freeridy/bmxy type riding as your other bikes were. Your Zoo was designed for hard core start..stop, back and forth type trials moves. The "balance point" on that bike for doing manuals/bmx moves is going to be harder to find then free gear at a world cup DH race. Manuals/bunny hops depend HEAVILY on the rear chain stay length, the longer the stays the harder it is to pull the bike up. You'll notice on all the modern street style mtb bikes the chain stays are 16in or shorter like on Black Market's Riot and 357 bikes for example where they're only 15 1/2in long.
3) To help your case a shorter stem and a riser bar will help, but again the bike itself is really not meant for flowy type moves like manuals alother with skill anything is possible of course. I rode a friends Zoo PitBull once a few years ago and experienced the same things you've described, great from start stop trials moves...horrible for flowy manuals/bmx moves.
I had a Echo Pure with an Azonic shorty stem and 2in riser bars and it manualed pretty well for a trials bike with a good balance point or "sweet spot".
One last thing... this is a trials bike.. you want the the handlebars lower, less spacers then normal because in trials you're going UP things 85% of the time rather then jumping or dropping where you'd want the front end elevated more then normal.
Hope this helps...
Lets narrow it down some...
I've been riding trials/street/DJ's for about 12+ years now and have ridden alot of each kind of bikes and have had my fair share of trials bikes over the years as well.
1)
First off is the stem height/length if you have a long stem with wide bars it puts your weight forward more thus making it much harder/more wobbly to pull the front end up. All of my trials bikes had short 80 or 90mm stems with a good set of riser bars and i've never had any trouble.
2) The geometry of the bike, trials bikes (especially the Zoo Pitbull) aren't really meant for freeridy/bmxy type riding as your other bikes were. Your Zoo was designed for hard core start..stop, back and forth type trials moves. The "balance point" on that bike for doing manuals/bmx moves is going to be harder to find then free gear at a world cup DH race. Manuals/bunny hops depend HEAVILY on the rear chain stay length, the longer the stays the harder it is to pull the bike up. You'll notice on all the modern street style mtb bikes the chain stays are 16in or shorter like on Black Market's Riot and 357 bikes for example where they're only 15 1/2in long.
3) To help your case a shorter stem and a riser bar will help, but again the bike itself is really not meant for flowy type moves like manuals alother with skill anything is possible of course. I rode a friends Zoo PitBull once a few years ago and experienced the same things you've described, great from start stop trials moves...horrible for flowy manuals/bmx moves.
I had a Echo Pure with an Azonic shorty stem and 2in riser bars and it manualed pretty well for a trials bike with a good balance point or "sweet spot".
One last thing... this is a trials bike.. you want the the handlebars lower, less spacers then normal because in trials you're going UP things 85% of the time rather then jumping or dropping where you'd want the front end elevated more then normal.
Hope this helps...
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now is this 2.5 feet on a ruler or 2.5 feet on pinkbike?
Thanks for the input guys! My stem might be way too long. It's 130mm by 10 degrees. I just thought that I might want to try some urban stuff on it. Pedaling up is no problem but with my 18/15 gearing I'm going slower than a slug going at a slow slug pace. I guess I'll just stick to more trials specific moves until I get a bike with tighter geometry.
your stem is retardedly too long
I guess that would put me way forward, eh? I'm not retarded, just in Canada say 'eh' alot. Anyhooter, soon I'm going to put on a stem that is very short from my other bike and I'll let you know how it goes. The stem I've got on there is from Echo but it might be for a 20" 'mod' bike that needs to have you way forward. Thanks again for the input folks!
Trials bikes use long stems. It's not useless, it makes balancing on the front wheel much, much easier.
In my experience a short stem, short chainstay length and a high front end will help you manual, but it sounds like you need some help on your technique. No offence, everyone has to start somewhere.
My only advice over the forum will be to put your weight back. Don't just pull up with your arms. See if you can find someone who can give some tips in person. That will be much more helpful than text from folks who can't see what you're doing. The only other key is practice. I start to lose my manuals if I stay off the bike for too long. It's a tricky skill that has to be rehearsed to maintain.
In my experience a short stem, short chainstay length and a high front end will help you manual, but it sounds like you need some help on your technique. No offence, everyone has to start somewhere.
My only advice over the forum will be to put your weight back. Don't just pull up with your arms. See if you can find someone who can give some tips in person. That will be much more helpful than text from folks who can't see what you're doing. The only other key is practice. I start to lose my manuals if I stay off the bike for too long. It's a tricky skill that has to be rehearsed to maintain.