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More reason Iraq is headed for worse and not better.

H8R

Cranky Pants
Nov 10, 2004
13,959
35
I got Occupation Dreamland on Netflix a few weeks ago and thought it was a very solid view of the crap that goes on outside the green zone.

It's about the 82nd, but in the end, the 82nd is replaced by Marines that have it a lot worse than the 82nd did due to the fact the locals are getting sick of the occupation.

There is a lot less of a slant and more of a focus on the lack of direction in the lower ranks about the overall mission and purpose.
That was made by a former coworker and good friend of my wife. Awesome guy, I had a chance to meet him once. He died shortly after that film due to heart troubles. He received a couple of awards for it after he died.

He also made this:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0317273/
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,356
2,467
Pōneke
That image is 'art', bro. It's something to do with modern relationships and loss of intimacy if I remember rightly. Very appropriate if I do say so myself.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,649
24
SF, CA
That image is 'art', bro. It's something to do with modern relationships and loss of intimacy if I remember rightly. Very appropriate if I do say so myself.
No kidding? I thought it was just the first thing that turned up when I searched "awkward spooning" on Google images...
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
...we have no clear strategy, we have no clear definition of victory, it has cost us in the neighborhood of $1 trillion, no one over there is a direct threat to the domestic US, and at this stage it doesn't really matter which direction the winds of popular Iraqi support (if there even is such a thing now that it has inarguably descended into sectarian violence) are blowing.
things ain't clear to you b/c you ain't got your mind right.

and wtf should we wait until someone is a direct threat to the domestic US? as of tuesday afternoon, sept 11th, there was no longer a threat to us domestically, so we should have just stayed on the bench & licked our wounds, no?

kinda related, why do you think canada voted against withdrawal from afghanistan last week, a land where the strategy is "clear", where victory is "defined", and where there is "popular support" for this front of gwot (compared to iraq)?

eh? eh?
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,649
24
SF, CA
things ain't clear to you b/c you ain't got your mind right.

and wtf should we wait until someone is a direct threat to the domestic US? as of tuesday afternoon, sept 11th, there was no longer a threat to us domestically, so we should have just stayed on the bench & licked our wounds, no?

kinda related, why do you think canada voted against withdrawal from afghanistan last week, a land where the strategy is "clear", where victory is "defined", and where there is "popular support" for this front of gwot (compared to iraq)?

eh? eh?
Uh, it's not each one of those factors individually. It's the sum. If we had a clear strategy and definition of victory, I most likely would be for us seeing it through.
 

Echo

crooked smile
Jul 10, 2002
11,819
15
Slacking at work
things ain't clear to you b/c you ain't got your mind right.

and wtf should we wait until someone is a direct threat to the domestic US? as of tuesday afternoon, sept 11th, there was no longer a threat to us domestically, so we should have just stayed on the bench & licked our wounds, no?
No, we should have attacked Afganistan and concentrated on that until the job was done, instead of doing the job half-assed, then going and attacking another country that didn't have anything to do with 9/11 and, as it turns out, posed no threat whatsoever to the US. But they sure do now.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
No, we should have attacked Afganistan and concentrated on that until the job was done, instead of doing the job half-assed, then going and attacking another country that didn't have anything to do with 9/11 and, as it turns out, posed no threat whatsoever to the US. But they sure do now.
so if we were justified in attacking afghanistan b/c they were harboring terrorists (they had training camps & plotted 9/11 from there, too, which helped further justification), how was attacking iraq not justified? would you choose to not believe saddam was willingly harboring terrorists? specifically, terrorists against u.s. interests? you may have an case if you believe the numbers weren't significant enough to warrant invasion, but you're only closeting your inner neo-con.

the answers to the above questions i believe is where we diverge.
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
Gotta love the neo-con mindset. Create a situation which causes terrorists to flood into Iraq then use it to justify the war cos' we're fighting terrorists. It's actually brilliant. Like beating a man for being a "faggot" after you've raped him.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
Gotta love the neo-con mindset. Create a situation which causes terrorists to flood into Iraq then use it to justify the war cos' we're fighting terrorists. It's actually brilliant. Like beating a man for being a "faggot" after you've raped him.
did you fail geography son?
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,514
20,321
Sleazattle
Stankle and his ilk have failed to convince me that Iraq harbored a ter'rist threat greater to or even close to that which exists in Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iran and a handful of other countries. I was drinking heavily at the time but when Bushy and his cronies were trying to justify the war before it started it was all about the vaporware WMD's. When they weren't found it was all about Democratizing the Arab world. When it became clear that wasn't working it fell back to the blanket excuse of GWOT. Of course once we invaded Iraq the hotbed of terrorist activity moved from Afghanistan to Iraq. Seems to me we could have learned a bit from the Germans and stuck to a single front war.
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
Westy mate, I think you need to get back on the giggle juice cos things are way more f*cked up now and Georgie still has 18 months to go.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
Seems to me we could have learned a bit from the Germans and stuck to a single front war.
like how we did in guadalcanal, all over the south pacific, various places around europe, north africa...

cracka please.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
Westy mate, I think you need to get back on the giggle juice cos things are way more f*cked up now and Georgie still has 18 months to go.
i'm holding out on a wild conspiracy that the iraqi "government" - feh! - is ****ting in both hands over the prospect of a dnc-led u.s. government, and will get their act together quick-smart.

hey, i can dream, can't i?
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
Stankle and his ilk have failed to convince me that Iraq harbored a ter'rist threat greater to or even close to that which exists in Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iran and a handful of other countries. I was drinking heavily at the time but when Bushy and his cronies were trying to justify the war before it started it was all about the vaporware WMD's. When they weren't found it was all about Democratizing the Arab world. When it became clear that wasn't working it fell back to the blanket excuse of GWOT. Of course once we invaded Iraq the hotbed of terrorist activity moved from Afghanistan to Iraq.
George Sr. told everyone this would happened, but it was too hard to read for Jr. Then the terrorism veterans in Israel told us kicking a hornet's nest was dumb.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,514
20,321
Sleazattle
like how we did in guadalcanal, all over the south pacific, various places around europe, north africa...

cracka please.
Little history lesson for you. First of all we had allies who actually helped a lot, a few million dead Soviets soldiers would agree. We also had a strategy that included focusing on Europe first. Not to mention the entire country was focused on war, actual sacrifices were made, no encouraged consumerism and tax cuts.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
Little history lesson for you. First of all we had allies who actually helped a lot, a few million dead Soviets soldiers would agree. We also had a strategy that included focusing on Europe first. Not to mention the entire country was focused on war, actual sacrifices were made, no encouraged consumerism and tax cuts.
bitch, don't get all chuck norris on me!

but, yeah, we're wicked soft. look how you type are prattling on & about "death" & "blood". we've lost 1% of what we lost in WWII (adjusting for population & girth)
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,514
20,321
Sleazattle
if the surge is indeed NOT working, someone hold my hand & explain this to me:
http://www.globaldefensegroup.com/discombobulated-monkey/the-lies-of-senator-harry-reid.html?Itemid=85

(warning! gratuitous display of sen. reid giving speech on foxnews)
You have to love the use of a few specific stories to try and prove overall success. It is like saying we are winning the war on drugs because the cops just busted a couple of high school kids behind the Safeway last Tuesday. You have to look at the overall trending to get a better idea of what is going on. Ideally we would want to see the total number of insurgents in the field but seeing as though we over here and the folks running the show over their have no idea we have to just go by the body count.

Warning: Gratuitous display of potential facts.

http://icasualties.org/oif/RadControls/Chart/Image.aspx?UseSession=true&ChartID=12d514b1-6f42-3472-a2d1-2d2bf0874836_chart_Radchart2&imageFormat=Png&random=0.487305888667379


http://icasualties.org/oif/RadControls/Chart/Image.aspx?UseSession=true&ChartID=12d514b1-6f42-3472-a2d1-2d2bf0874836_chart_RadChart1&imageFormat=Png&random=0.128500861641253



http://icasualties.org/oif/US_chart.aspx

Statisticly the "surge" isn't old enough to track a trend one way or the other but no drastic changes have taken place yet.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
3 things:

1: tinyurl
2: there was more than just a few facts, but it did happen in these past few months
3: i wrote "working", not worked

can't imagine you would have us leave, and also can't imagine you would have us stay the course; so what would you have us do?

seems this question gets asked a lot. promise i'll pay attention this time.
 

Echo

crooked smile
Jul 10, 2002
11,819
15
Slacking at work
can't imagine you would have us leave, and also can't imagine you would have us stay the course; so what would you have us do?

seems this question gets asked a lot. promise i'll pay attention this time.
1. George: Talk to Iran and Syria instead of throwing empty threats at them.

2. George: Talk to Al-Sadr instead of dismissing him out of hand. If talking to him doesn't work, go back to shooting at him.

3. George: Listen to the American people who voted your dumb ass into office.

4: George: Quit doing whatever the hell you want, no matter what anyone else says.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,514
20,321
Sleazattle
3 things:

1: tinyurl
2: there was more than just a few facts, but it did happen in these past few months
3: i wrote "working", not worked

can't imagine you would have us leave, and also can't imagine you would have us stay the course; so what would you have us do?

seems this question gets asked a lot. promise i'll pay attention this time.

How would you say that it is working? And don't give me that "killed 3 insurgents on 4/17/07" crap.
 

Secret Squirrel

There is no Justice!
Dec 21, 2004
8,150
1
Up sh*t creek, without a paddle
1. George: Talk to Iran and Syria instead of throwing empty threats at them.

2. George: Talk to Al-Sadr instead of dismissing him out of hand. If talking to him doesn't work, go back to shooting at him.

3. George: Listen to the American people who voted your dumb ass into office.

4: George: Quit doing whatever the hell you want, no matter what anyone else says.
I could've sworn this morning on the radio I heard that Condi was going to travel to either Syria itself or go to Egypt and talk with Syrian diplomats....I can't find anything about it on MSN...I'll keep searching though...

I only bring this up because of the bloatedly huge fracas that was made when Pelosi did it....
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
41,302
13,421
Portland, OR