[MikeD]

Hey, all...I'm moving your way in late June. Had a thread on this a few months back, and got some great advice... Based on that and our other research, my wife and I have narrowed down our wants/preferences and I was hoping for a little more feedback.

I'll be working downtown on Pine St. in the financial district. I'd like to use mass transit to get there, or possibly make a short

We'd really like a standalone house/cottage of some sort, 2 br. with a garage, or maybe a 3 br. We're OK with a condo or duplex, too, of course, but in a perfect world...

We'd also like a cool neighborhood 'feel;' a local taco shop, some other nice places to eat/hang out/have a beer, but we're not into nightlife. Safety will be a concern, because I travel a lot and she'll be alone.

Budget is $2000/mo max.

Based on all this, we've decided that Richmond/Sunset is a possibility if we're going to live in the city, but Berkeley sounds really appealing, too. Plus, it's near my cousins in Oakland.

What's the commute to and from Berkeley going to be like on the BART? Could I drive there without too much hassle if I did so very early in the morning? Is there anywhere else we should be considering? (Oakland/Emeryville? Bernal Heights in the city?)

Thanks again. We're really looking forward to getting back to California. (Spent 7 years in SoCal already...) We'll only be in the bay area for 2 years, but would like to make the best of it.

MD

 

[Raacerx]

commute from berkeley to SF isnt bad. rushhour is crowded and bringing a bike can be challenging at those times, but its a lot less frustrating then sitting in traffic on the bay bridge.

last time a checked, parking is free at BART and there are a bunch of BART stations, such that you could ride your bike to BART from just about anywhere.

I grew up in Berkeley, its a great place. Lot of culture and a ton of places to eat. I personally grew up in North Berkeley, which is hilly and consists of a lot of middle age people and families. There are lots of parks, and Tilden Regional Park is very close by and although theres nothing great, theres enough mileage to get a short daily ride in and see some trees.

It is however, an expensive area. $2000 for a 2 bedroom is possible. For that or a little more you might be able to snag a nice cottage with a good backyard. The College Ave. area of Oakland is a nice area as well, close to downtown, but once again, also relatively expensive. Even the flat areas of Berkeley are pretty safe, lot of joggers, families, etc.

 

[MikeD]

Awesome...just what I needed to hear, really.

 

[Backpack1]

Just something to consider...car commute BK>SF>BK can and will suck hard often. Limit driving in SF as much as possible. Check the current rules, but when I lived in the East Bay you could not bring a bike on BART in the commuter direction to or from stops other than Embarcadero...again my memory is fuzzy on that. The East Bay is cleaner, warmer and 'earthier' than the City which can be a good thing if you are working in the gritty city M-F, but again, the commute can be a bitch. Cal Trans runs a $1 bike shuttle from a couple locations in Berkeley. If at all possible bike-commute, there are way to many cars around here. I've been doing it for over 5 years, but live in SF proper.

Sounds like you would have a better chance of getting a place with the things you want in your budget in the EB, your not going to find a 2 or 3 bedroom 'house' in SF for 2 Gs.

 

[OGRipper]

You are getting some good advice here but Raacerex seems a little optimistic. Rents are stabalizing somewhat but $2000 for a stand alone in SF, if possible at all, will put you in a crappy 'hood with nothing fun around. Get used to the idea of an apartment if you want to be in SF. My girl and I share a two bedroom (1/2 a duplex) in the Cole Valley area (which is pretty nice) and it's $2450/mo. Without a garage or parking.

For the East Bay, check out the Rockridge area of Oakland, maybe Temescal (borderline dicey in spots), or the Lakeshore Area (Lake Merrit). I have no idea what the rental situation is like out there but with summer here there may be more vacancies now then there will be in the fall when the students come back.

But DO NOT plan to drive from the East Bay to SF anytime between 6:30 and 10:00 am, or in the other direction from like 3:30 to 6:30 or 7 pm. You will hate life if you do. Also, parking in the FiDi will cost you a ridiculous amount - easily $450 or more for a monthly spot, or $40/day and up. Bart is workable but is usually packed. The east bay parking lots usually fill up before 7 or 7:30, and many are now charging but I don't know how much/day.

Oh, and the supervisors are currently considering a plan to start charging people to drive in the FiDi during business hours.

I live in SF and work in Oakland, drop me a PM if I can help. But, um, no, I don't know anyone with a house for $2K.

 

[sanjuro]

Just something to consider...car commute BK>SF>BK can and will suck hard often. Limit driving in SF as much as possible. Check the current rules, but when I lived in the East Bay you could not bring a bike on BART in the commuter direction to or from stops other than Embarcadero...again my memory is fuzzy on that. The East Bay is cleaner, warmer and 'earthier' than the City which can be a good thing if you are working in the gritty city M-F, but again, the commute can be a bitch. Cal Trans runs a $1 bike shuttle from a couple locations in Berkeley. If at all possible bike-commute, there are way to many cars around here. I've been doing it for over 5 years, but live in SF proper.

Sounds like you would have a better chance of getting a place with the things you want in your budget in the EB, your not going to find a 2 or 3 bedroom 'house' in SF for 2 Gs.

I think commute distances is all relative. My friend takes the bus across SF, 30 minutes. I take Caltrain to Mt View, 45 minutes.

I think car commuting around the Bay Area is nuts, but a commute of an hour or less is the price of living in SF.

P.S. I have a lot of friends who live in Walnut Creek who think BART is a joy. And I have one friend who commutes by motorcycle from Pleasant Hill. His fastest commute to the Fremont Street exit: 16 minutes.

 

[MikeD]

I'd love to bike-commute, but the office doesn't have showers or lockers...I'm thinking maybe there will be a gym nearby. Looking into it now. Sometimes we'll be wearing suits at work, and sometimes I'll have a lot of gear or paperwork with me; in any case, I'll need to change/shower.

Mass transit is definitely my preference. Sitting in cars sucks.

Thanks again for the input,

Mike

 

[HarryCallahan]

I've got a friend lives in North Berkeley in the old family home (North is relative, as in he uses the north Berkely BART and his exit is north of the main exit for UCB. Lovely old pre-WW2 neighborhood. No idea about rents, though. Had a friend whol lived in the Noe Valley area from about 1985 to 1990 and worked at UCSF. Traffic was crazy, and she knew all the backroads and mass transit routes. The density of SF cuts both ways; parking and driving can be nuts, but the density also makes mass transit work.

The Bay Bridge is a daily grind; traffic headed for SF backs up at the east side toll plaza as early as 6:30 a.m. BART comes right into downtown and connects to buses and the Muni RR.

If you look at the peninsula, there are some nice neighborhoods down around Redwood city, and you can Caltrain into the city.

One other option: I used to know a guy who lived in Marin, in Novato I think, and worked in downtown SF. He road the ferry in from Larkspur every day. He could read the paper on his commute in and have a cocktail on the ride back.

 

[Raacerx]

I never said $2000 for something in SF. Im well aware that rent is far more expensive out there. I was speaking about Berkeley. In the East Bay, $2000 or a little more will get you a nice 2 bedroom if you look good. Obviously closer to say...UCB is going to be more expensive then some other places, etc.

And yeah, they have rules about bikes during rush hour. id consider figuring out a way to ride your bike to BART, then foot it from there. Or find a good carpool, there are quite a few if you dont mind the tedium of sitting in traffic (atleast your not driving all the time). me personally, id rather spend a little more in gas, sit in traffic with my music and air condition and leather, instead of packed into a BART train. But obviously, I only do that if parking is guaranteed.

 

[sanjuro]

btw, if I used BART to get into the city, I would definitely buy a folding bike. I can't get onto the 8am Baby Bullet because there are too many bikes.

 

[Backpack1]

Quote " me personally, id rather spend a little more in gas, sit in traffic with my music and air condition and leather, instead of packed into a BART train. But obviously, I only do that if parking is guaranteed. "

and THAT is why traffic sucks.....we are all selfish. No dis to you specifically Raacerx, but that attitude is all to prevalent.

Couple more things "Temescal borderline 'DICEY' "? AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

RE: Bike commute "No showers and lockers"? you gotta be kidding...so you sweat a little, it dries who cares.

The ferry to Marin has gone up to at least $10 RT a day, but there is nothing like having a beer, wine or shot at sea with your bike in this beautiful bay - I do it whenever possible and the connecting busses on the Marin side are free.

I lived in Rockridge in the early 90's, lived the Great Fire, and saw that hood become the bastion of yuppie parenthood it now is. We were the last scumbags allowed and when we left they changed the locks. Seriously. Bitter? Yes, a little. I live in the heart of the Mission, crack, heroin and gang central with my wife and 3 kids. But at least I get a 9 mile RT commute on my Bullit every single day...a little sweat? big deal unless you are a suit.

BART is a decent Transit op....SF Muni busses flat out suck and are horribly driven and scheduled. The Muni trains are cool for the most part. Parking in SF? Where? We rent an unsecured outdoor spot in a 24 hour gas station on our block for my wife's rig for $250 a month...about the price of a new window a month which is the alternative.

I guess it's all worth it when you need to cop a 50-shot and a piece of tar though.

 

[MikeD]

RE: Bike commute "No showers and lockers"? you gotta be kidding...so you sweat a little, it dries who cares.
.... But at least I get a 9 mile RT commute on my Bullit every single day...a little sweat? big deal unless you are a suit.

Sometimes we'll be wearing suits at work

I'm at least a part-time suit...and even when I'm not, being stinky isn't going to fly with what I do. Appreciate the mass transit advice, though. I was considering living north of the GG bridge and taking the ferry in (Sausalito? Tiburon?), but I just don't think that's going to work out, work-wise.

MD

 

[Heath Sherratt]

How is that Prophet working out for ya?

 

[MikeD]

How is that Prophet working out for ya?

Tragically, it's sitting, unbuilt, in the corner of this 'temporary' apartment, waiting for the day when I can finally get at my tools, parts, repair stand, and workbench again, and actually build it. Everything's been in storage since we left San Diego last July, and I might have ridden 8 times since then...

How are you feeling??

MD

 

[sanjuro]

I'm at least a part-time suit...and even when I'm not, being stinky isn't going to fly with what I do. Appreciate the mass transit advice, though. I was considering living north of the GG bridge and taking the ferry in (Sausalito? Tiburon?), but I just don't think that's going to work out, work-wise.

MD

I don't think you are buying yourself anything by moving into Marin. Rent there is as pricey as SF. Think there are any bargins in Mill Valley or San Rafael?

I think you have to be realistic, and accept that the least expensive places are also the least attractive (to the sophisticated city-dweller).

Assuming you want to bypass the slums, the far towns in Contra Costa and Alameda counties are the closest to being affordable. Pleasant Hill, Concord, Fremont, and Dublin *might* be in your $2000 budget, and at least they are on the BART line.

I could be wrong about this. I immediately moved in with my sister, so I never shopped rents. I believe anywhere attractive won't be a condo or a 2 bedroom for under 2k, but if you searched, maybe something will fall out of the trees.

EDIT: I did a quick search of Craigslist, and for 2k and under for a 2br, I noticed lots of Petaluma, Concord, Cupertino, Dublin addresses, and some wonderful places in Bayview and the Mission.

 

[MikeD]

I think we'll be able to find someplace in the east bay...pretty much settled on that. My cousins in Oakland were telling me North Oakland and South Berkeley were the places to look. We'll see what I can find...was just wondering if the commute was going to be do-able. But like you said, it's 30 mins. on a Muni bus or 45 min on the BART, etc...gonna be a commute any way you cut it.

MD

 

[OGRipper]

Backpack1, I agree with your comment about the selfishness of solo drivers. But everyday bike commuting is just not viable for many professionals, and it rarely has anything to do with being willing to sweat.

Mike, I know lots of people that commute from Marin via ferry, bus, bike, etc. They mix it up and say it's not so bad. But unless you get pretty far out (which makes the commute worse) the cost of housing is about the same, if not worse, than SF since there is less density and less rental housing. Many find that it's worth it to be close to Tam and all the good stuff north of the city so it's worth checking out.

 

[MikeD]

Mike, I know lots of people that commute from Marin via ferry, bus, bike, etc. They mix it up and say it's not so bad. But unless you get pretty far out (which makes the commute worse) the cost of housing is about the same, if not worse, than SF since there is less density and less rental housing. Many find that it's worth it to be close to Tam and all the good stuff north of the city so it's worth checking out.

Yeah, I think Marin is going to be someplace for weekend outings. Really appreciate you guys taking the time to humor all my stupid musings and questions...

 

[sanjuro]

Let me speak up for Pleasant Hill. It has become the destination of a lot of people who cannot afford even Berkeley/Oakland rents. I think it is a mellow place, a little mallish but I like the people there.

The commute is reasonable, 45-50min to downtown via BART, and only 25 miles from SF.

I even know a good dh shop out there!

 

[dump]

University BART -> Embarcadero is about 30 mins during rush hour. BART can be flaky (has been lately during the systems upgrade), but it's one of the few alternatives. There's also the ACT express bus to the transit center on fremont st. but I haven't ever taken that.

$2K is about the middle price for a 2brm place in the berkeley... south tends to be a little less expensive, north tends to be a little more expensive. Wherever you go, I suggest living as close to BART as possible.

Driving is rough, stressful and expensive (toll + parking) for daily commuting... fasttrak helps a bit.

As others have said, $2K isn't going to get you much of a 2bdrm in SF... Richmond can be nice (great food, close to the park, bars), but the commute from there to downtown is the same or possibly longer than coming from berkeley on bart. Also, the housing market there is pretty tight... you can probably find decent stuff startign just over 2K...

Berkeley is definitely more residential and quiet than SF, especially in regards to the nightlife, but there are one or two spots.

As for marin, I suggest avoiding it entirely. It has beautiful countryside, but horrid traffic, nightlife and housing prices. Transportation from marin -> sf is highly dependant on automobiles...
The ferry can be nice if you're close to saulsalito or larkspur, but it's expensive and 30+ minutes (on the boat) Also do yourself a favor & don't even consider taking the Golden Gate Transit bus - that has to be the absolute worst transportation system in the whole area.

Do you have a family? How important is the garage?

I vote for berkeley/oakland.

 

[Backpack1]

OGR-I see what you mean about the suits/clothing issues. Luckily I can slob it up quite a bit in the semi-pro IT realm.

Good luck with your new digs....whatever the pitfalls we face living here, the cherries are ripe and abundant.

 

[kidwoo]

Once you get all that shlt figured out, hop in your secret agent car with your secret agent black suit with your secret agent earpiece and go to taqueria cancun. Get food. Tell ohio to meet you there, he's not far. Tell him how much post mount brake mounts on fork lowers suck. (duck when you do this).

Then get your secret ninja as$ out of there an start driving east. Pick up partsbara in grass valley. Shoot some random subordinate/terrorist just to keep your quota up and see if you still "got it". Parts will be game. I know he misses joey hunting.

Once you cross donner pass call mountain dirtbag kidwoo. Best located by honing in on sweaty smelling tacoma.

This message will self destruct by my third beer.

 

[sanjuro]

taqueria cancun is overrated. el toro taqueria is the bomb.

 

[MikeD]

Once you get all that shlt figured out, hop in your secret agent car with your secret agent black suit with your secret agent earpiece and go to taqueria cancun. Get food. Tell ohio to meet you there, he's not far. Tell him how much post mount brake mounts on fork lowers suck. (duck when you do this).

Then get your secret ninja as$ out of there an start driving east. Pick up partsbara in grass valley. Shoot some random subordinate/terrorist just to keep your quota up and see if you still "got it". Parts will be game. I know he misses joey hunting.

Once you cross donner pass call mountain dirtbag kidwoo. Best located by honing in on sweaty smelling tacoma.

This message will self destruct by my third beer.

Now, that's a plan. Is Partsy already out there? Sent him an email the other day trying to locate him. Hadn't heard of a massive beer shortage anywhere in CA, so I figured he was still in transit.

Can't wait to get a real goddamned taco. Why oh why was I born an east coaster?

See you all soon,

MD

 

[kidwoo]

taqueria cancun is overrated. el toro taqueria is the bomb.

I'm ole skool.

Back in my day taqueria cancun grabbed el toro by the oysters, looked it in the eye and said, "one day I'll be famous".

I guess it came at a cost.

 

[sanjuro]

believe it or not, my fave is Salsa on Willow Pass in Concord. Heath, back me up on this!

 

[Backpack1]

I gotta add this....after 20 years of eating Urban Food Logs in the Mission...I am full of burritos...had enough...save em for the tourists.
Can-Cun smells like vomit at 3AM that place has gotten nasty...and I tolerate Nasty very well. The Can-Cun out by Mission X Valencia is way better. I live on the block El Toro is on (not counting Camp and Albion alleys...and it does hold up pretty well. Keep in mind it's owned (literally, not 'pwned') by Pancho Villa. I started to see the Decline of the Log when La Cumbre finally succumbed to all the mexiwhitey vegans and started putting rice in their burritos......anyway the point of all this is as follows:

THE TACO TRUCK IS YOUR SOURCE FOR THE PURO SABOR! I would rather mop up my 40s with 6 tacos than a goopy burrito anyday.....Trux are on Harrison, Treat, Shotwell, etc......and of course the king taco trux on Oakland's East 14th, ese...Orale cabron!

When people ask "why would you move to Cali?!?!? just tell em -aint no taco like a West Coast taco!

 

[OGRipper]

Funny. I came from the east coast too and really got into the Mexi thing when I first got here. Now I still love the stuff but I am pretty much over all the burrito wars. Cancun is good, so is El Toro, and so are dozens of others, especially after a long ride or a long night of drinking.

It's just not that hard to stuff a tortilla full of rice, cheese, grilled meat, and lard.

Personally my current favorite Mexican meal is a couple of tamales from the Tamale Lady eaten out back at Zeitgeist with a couple pitchers.

 

[Backpack1]

I :heart: Tamale Lady S.F. too!

 

[MikeD]

I :heart: Tamale Lady S.F. too!

Info. Please. I would die for a good tamal right now...

Plus, my wife loves them, and she's a finicky eater with Celiac's disease (gluten intolerance), so our options are limited. We used to hit up the $1 tamale cart in San Diego all the time.

Does the Tamale Lady have cheese tamales??

MD

 

[MikeD]

Do you have a family? How important is the garage?

I vote for berkeley/oakland.

Just me and my wife and 2 cats at the moment. The garage is just someplace for me to keep my bikes, workbench, and repair stand. Of course, I might just have to sell some of that off, too.

 

[sanjuro]

Funny. I came from the east coast too and really got into the Mexi thing when I first got here. Now I still love the stuff but I am pretty much over all the burrito wars. Cancun is good, so is El Toro, and so are dozens of others, especially after a long ride or a long night of drinking.

It's just not that hard to stuff a tortilla full of rice, cheese, grilled meat, and lard.

Personally my current favorite Mexican meal is a couple of tamales from the Tamale Lady eaten out back at Zeitgeist with a couple pitchers.

Burrito joints in SF are like pizza places in NYC/Philly/Boston. Its all good.

 

[OGRipper]

Info. Please. I would die for a good tamal right now...

Plus, my wife loves them, and she's a finicky eater with Celiac's disease (gluten intolerance), so our options are limited. We used to hit up the $1 tamale cart in San Diego all the time.

Does the Tamale Lady have cheese tamales??

MD

The Tamale Lady is a bit of a mystery to me, all I know is she shows up at some local bars with an insulated cart and sells killer fresh hot tamales. I am pretty sure she has a veggie option.

I use a spare small bedroom for my 6 bikes, tools, stand, etc. Depending on what you find, doing something like that can be more secure and cheaper than a garage. You will pay a premium for a garage and they are often accessible by other tenants.

 

[Backpack1]

Yes, she does cheese...she also is the subject of a documentary and has a tribute album out...

GOOGLE: Tamale Lady S.F.

VERY INTERESTING LADY INDEED....

 

[MikeD]

I currently live in the city (Marina) and work downtown (Pine/Montgomery) and have done the Berkeley/SF as well as Walnut Creek/SF commute in all forms.

I'll be working on Pine between Sansome and Battery...

Thx for the writeup. I'll drop you a line soon.

 

[MikeD]

I use a spare small bedroom for my 6 bikes, tools, stand, etc. Depending on what you find, doing something like that can be more secure and cheaper than a garage. You will pay a premium for a garage and they are often accessible by other tenants.

Yeah, a 3 br would work OK for us too...we need a 2nd br for an office/guestroom kind of space before I make myself a bike room. Either way, it's a costly proposition.

 

[OGRipper]

Well dang, there is much more to the Tamale lady than just good grub:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2003/06/28/MN161258.DTL&type=news

This is exactly the kind of thing I love about this city.

 

[Backpack1]

Now if we could just get that urban DH race with an amateur class catagories we'd be all set.

 

[El Santo]

Hey, all...I'm moving your way in late June. Had a thread on this a few months back, and got some great advice... Based on that and our other research, my wife and I have narrowed down our wants/preferences and I was hoping for a little more feedback.

I'll be working downtown on Pine St. in the financial district. I'd like to use mass transit to get there, or possibly make a short

We'd really like a standalone house/cottage of some sort, 2 br. with a garage, or maybe a 3 br. We're OK with a condo or duplex, too, of course, but in a perfect world...

We'd also like a cool neighborhood 'feel;' a local taco shop, some other nice places to eat/hang out/have a beer, but we're not into nightlife. Safety will be a concern, because I travel a lot and she'll be alone.

Budget is $2000/mo max.

Based on all this, we've decided that Richmond/Sunset is a possibility if we're going to live in the city, but Berkeley sounds really appealing, too. Plus, it's near my cousins in Oakland.

What's the commute to and from Berkeley going to be like on the BART? Could I drive there without too much hassle if I did so very early in the morning? Is there anywhere else we should be considering? (Oakland/Emeryville? Bernal Heights in the city?)

Thanks again. We're really looking forward to getting back to California. (Spent 7 years in SoCal already...) We'll only be in the bay area for 2 years, but would like to make the best of it.

MD

IMO, stay on the peninsula. Burlingame is a close hop by Caltrain (20 minutes) or car (variable time) to SF, and taking your bike on Caltrain is free at all times. BART limits when you can get a bike on, unless you ride one of those fold-up-jobbies, plus it's loud and slow.

Riding on the peninsula is really good, anything from huge DJ to XC solitude in redwood groves. Rent is cheap(er), stand-alone houses are easily doable for under $2k, and Burlingame has a nice downtown feel to it, with a few bars, restaurants, etc. Lots of us live on the peninsula.

 

[dump]

I currently live in the city (Marina) and work downtown (Pine/Montgomery) and have done the Berkeley/SF as well as Walnut Creek/SF commute in all forms.

Items of note:
1. Bart commute is ~$7/day, that is before parking if BART starts charging at the lot.
1b. Leaving a bike all day at BART will get it stolen.
1c. To be in my office by 6am, I had to be on bart by 5:25am. Figure your morning routine backwards from that.
2. Commute via public transit from the Richmond Dst. is ~30min. You can get a monthly bus pass for $45
2b. The richmond is very nice if you are looking to settle down. If I was settling down and getting a place, it would probably be there. It's quiet, and safe. It's also in bfe.
3. If you are looking in Berkeley, look North Berkeley. North of University Ave, East of Sactamento (+- 2-3 blocks to the west). Just seeing it, you will get a feel for it.
3b. There is no safe storage not attached directly to your home in Berkeley. There is a relatively large theft problem.
3c. Bikes are a primary target
4. I'm sick of typing.

Mike, give me a call when you have a chance. After 5pm pst 510-604-4992

-ms

good advice.

btw, i'm in the area in berkeley you described... I also keep bikes indoors. Same w/ SF too... had friends w/ bikes stolen out of the garage - repeatedly.

When I rode to bart, I rode my beater cruiser... I'm close enough to walk now. If you ride your high end bike & leave it locked up anywhere it'll get stolen...