[Heath Sherratt]

I held off getting the new Cannondale Judge this year because I wanted to hold off and see if i would even warrant needing a new DH bike. Well, after seeing them in person at the Sea Otter I was compelled to purchase one. It is truly one of the most blingin' bikes I have seen and I can't wait to get ot out on the trail. I am also glad I got to ride before I chose what size as the cockpit on this rig is much smaller than the Gemini DH frame of late. It looks so big and monstrous on paper but was surprisingly flickable and it has an extremely low center of gravity. I cannot wait to ride it more. Full report later in the year. Anybody else ride this thing? Logan Bingelli-now on Yeti was telling me it was amazing and I just wanted to hear other feedback.

 

[Bicyclist]

It does sound slow on paper but if it rides good, that would make for a killer ride.

 

[S.K.C.]

George Ryan who is a Diablo local got picked up by Cannondale for 06' and is on a Judge for DH.

I'm pretty sure he is on this board from time to time - try giving him a shout out here or on HCOR.net.

 

[MadDHer]

I got a chance to ride one of their bikes at Sea Otter, and I didn't quite like the rear-wheel path. It seems to create some pedal feedback. The angles were kinda off too. No wonder Cedric left...

 

[ThePriceSeliger]

I got a chance to ride one of their bikes at Sea Otter, and I didn't quite like the rear-wheel path. It seems to create some pedal feedback. The angles were kinda off too. No wonder Cedric left...

I'm sure he would have rode that Gemini just as fast as his new team. They don't leave because they don't like the bikes, the leave for the green $$$.

FYI, that bike was designed around Cedric, so I bet he liked the angles.

 

[konahucker43]

I held off getting the new Cannondale Judge this year because I wanted to hold off and see if i would even warrant needing a new DH bike. Well, after seeing them in person at the Sea Otter I was compelled to purchase one. It is truly one of the most blingin' bikes I have seen and I can't wait to get ot out on the trail. I am also glad I got to ride before I chose what size as the cockpit on this rig is much smaller than the Gemini DH frame of late. It looks so big and monstrous on paper but was surprisingly flickable and it has an extremely low center of gravity. I cannot wait to ride it more. Full report later in the year. Anybody else ride this thing? Logan Bingelli-now on Yeti was telling me it was amazing and I just wanted to hear other feedback.

i am sure logan proclaiming the cdale is amazing makes the yeti guys happy

 

[ShredsTheGNAR]

I ordered a judge rep back in January and still havent gotten it. Good luck with getting it.

 

[sanjuro]

Is a lot different than the 06 Gracia?

 

[Superdeft]

Post up some pictures of your setup, I've yet to see a photo that represents it's size well.

 

[gemini2k]

Is a lot different than the 06 Gracia?

it is the 06 gracia, they just changed the badge when he left

 

[The Mad Haderer]

i actually rode around on CVDs bike at a test session and the thing is very odd...they build in lateral flex to the rear end intentionally...my guess is to load up in corners but its just an odd idea to me

 

[TheMontashu]

I say get a better suspention design and go with a V10, or a sunday.

 

[Jm_]

I'm sure he would have rode that Gemini just as fast as his new team. They don't leave because they don't like the bikes, the leave for the green $$$.

FYI, that bike was designed around Cedric, so I bet he liked the angles.

If we were talking about any other company, maybe, but how long as it taken cannondale to come up with something other than a basic single pivot? Err, they don't have anything other than a basic single pivot, and the gemini wasn't that great, some pedal feedback and fairly flexy rear end. Fixed that with the "judge", but cannondale holds out for a long time when better technology exists.

 

[thaflyinfatman]

but if it rides good, that would make for a killer ride.

Uh... no shït?

 

[ThePriceSeliger]

If we were talking about any other company, maybe, but how long as it taken cannondale to come up with something other than a basic single pivot? Err, they don't have anything other than a basic single pivot, and the gemini wasn't that great, some pedal feedback and fairly flexy rear end. Fixed that with the "judge", but cannondale holds out for a long time when better technology exists.

I don't think the basic single pivot effected his riding much. He did win the Rampage on one, and he is one of the faster WC racers. Sure, the design is basic, simple, but it works. I've had a few and no real complaints. I don't even know what to say about the Judge, I've never seen one in person yet.

 

[SuspectDevice]

If we were talking about any other company, maybe, but how long as it taken cannondale to come up with something other than a basic single pivot? Err, they don't have anything other than a basic single pivot, and the gemini wasn't that great, some pedal feedback and fairly flexy rear end. Fixed that with the "judge", but cannondale holds out for a long time when better technology exists.

Dude, I know you're old enough to remember the fulcrum, don't be assinine. They choose to use a single pivot, as they own a pretty desirable design in the fulcrum setup...

 

[bizutch]

...that and Gracia is competitive on a Big Wheel.

 

[Cant Climb]

can someone post a current realworld pic of this bike..........?

so we know whats being talked about.

 

[vitox]

can someone post a current realworld pic of this bike..........?

so we know whats being talked about.

here ya go

 

[SuspectDevice]

As I mentioned before, that link guides the rear wheel to travel in a very odd path. I am not sure why they designed in such way (maybe for pedalling efficiency) but it creates a lot of pedal feedback.
Does anyone know why they have such high chainstay?

That link only modifies the leverage ratio. It has no effect on wheelpath. The pivot is actually quite LOW, much lower than a 224 or Morewood.

 

[spacemanspiff06]

If we were talking about any other company, maybe, but how long as it taken cannondale to come up with something other than a basic single pivot? Err, they don't have anything other than a basic single pivot, and the gemini wasn't that great, some pedal feedback and fairly flexy rear end. Fixed that with the "judge", but cannondale holds out for a long time when better technology exists.

the judge is a basic single pivot. it has the actuation links but it's still a single pivot.
and they havn't been 'holding off' because a better technology doesn't exist. VPP, DW, horst, ect, are all trade offs. they cost more, the weight more, and if you ride in muddy places, a VPP bike will go through the bottom 4 bearings in less then a year, whitch cost $100 (for a blur, i'm sure it costs more for a V-10, sunday, M3, whatever.) plus labor. all that just for a slightly better axle path...
oh, and the gemnis with 12mm TAs feel as stiff as a 4-bar.
true they do have a touch of pedal feedback, but it's hard not to with 7".
give us a full write-up when you get it out on a trail, i can't wait to see how it rides.

 

[spacemanspiff06]

then maybe you should mention that. Read your own post MO...ron.

he did say chainstay, and that post hasn't been edited.
it's that high to stay out of the way of the chain, i guess. still it's not that much weight and it's only 6 inches higher then it could be.

 

[biker3]

Dude, what are you talking about?! I was asking about the chainstay! It is way too high, leaving most of the mass of the bike a little too high for optimum cornering.

You're wrong. You said the link effects the wheel path which is entirely not true. The wheelpath on the Judge is fine. Its almost the same as my old Gemini DH, which had hardly any noticeable pedal feedback. I ride a Morewood now which has a tad higher pivot and the feedback isn't bad at all. The Judge is probably a fine bike, I know my Gemini DH was perfectly capable. It wasn't my choice for the best bike but it was still loads of fun. Cannondale does do some ODD things with Geometry but they make a really unique product with a top notch finish. I like them, they do their own thing and try new things. Sometimes they suck yes, but they've been around for about just as long as anyone. No matter what Stik or those guys say, you can't argue with the Volvo Cannondale results.

 

[LaytonDH]

I've talked to CVD a few times since he got his, and he seems to really like it, they do write his paychecks, but Chris tells it like it is and would be talking to them about all the changes to make if there were any

 

[binary visions]

I might be wrong on the wheel path issue, but the link does influence the wheel path.

No.

It does not.

Period.

 

[maxyedor]

If we were talking about any other company, maybe, but how long as it taken cannondale to come up with something other than a basic single pivot? Err, they don't have anything other than a basic single pivot, and the gemini wasn't that great, some pedal feedback and fairly flexy rear end. Fixed that with the "judge", but cannondale holds out for a long time when better technology exists.

Cannondale was using VPP way back in the day. The fact is the single pivot is where its at. Foes has never made anything but a single pivot and they are the best race frames around.

 

[OGRipper]

Everyone knows World Cup & NORBA results are fixed. It's all about which company pays out the bigger bribe to the organizations.

Who is Stik? Did he ride for Cannondale?

I might be wrong on the wheel path issue, but the link does influence the wheel path.
Another issue with the Cannondale bikes is their tubbing. Their tubbing is of a inferior quality, and they don't even use the latest techonlogy such as hydroforming. They do take the time to smooth out the welds, but they don't even botther to have double butted tubes to reinforce spots were the stress is higher.

Stop now please.

Race results are not fixed.

The link does not effect the wheel path.

Put down the keyboard and just look at the picture for a few minutes. The main pivot is fixed, and it is directly connected to the axle with a one piece swingarm. The linkage changes the shock rate and probably adds some stiffness. Do not argue anymore.

 

[sanjuro]

Everyone knows World Cup & NORBA results are fixed. It's all about which company pays out the bigger bribe to the organizations.

Who is Stik? Did he ride for Cannondale?

I might be wrong on the wheel path issue, but the link does influence the wheel path.
Another issue with the Cannondale bikes is their tubbing. Their tubbing is of a inferior quality, and they don't even use the latest techonlogy such as hydroforming. They do take the time to smooth out the welds, but they don't even botther to have double butted tubes to reinforce spots were the stress is higher.

Stik? I don't think he knows anything about downhill but he acts like he is married to a World Champion or something...

And I am so glad you are keeping up with current events, like Cannondale's use of hydroforming: 2004 article about hydroforming the Prophet swingarm

BTW, you also know that the downside to hydroforming is the inability to double-butt tubing?

 

[sanjuro]

I know the Millenium Falcon can go at 3X the light speed even when going against Solar flares.

Have you ever seen a woman naked?

 

[offtheedge]

this thread is overflowing with brilliance

 

[bballe336]

Stop responding to maddher guys. It's a joke. He is acting like a complete moron because he probably finds it funny. Anyways the bike looks nice and simple. I wonder how Hannah is liking his?

 

[MadDHer]

Just because I don't know everything out there about bikes, that doesn't make me a joke.
Hannah rides for Gary Fisher! She does mostly the BMX-wanna-be thing right?

 

[BigMike]

That thing is cool, but the angles look weird on paper as stated before. I was looking at getting one, but they are WAY too expensive!

 

[matt12]

Just because I don't know everything out there about bikes, that doesn't make me a joke.
Hannah rides for Gary Fisher! She does mostly the BMX-wanna-be thing right?

I think hes talking about Mick Hannah, but I could be wrong....

 

[bballe336]

I think hes talking about Mick Hannah, but I could be wrong....

You're right.

 

[AusRottenVirus]

Regardless of all this nonsense, I really like the looks of that bike. When we first saw pics of the Gracia last year I thought it looked terrible, but now I think it's growing on me.

No matter what everyone says, Cannondale is a good company who does produce a quality product. I rode a Gemini DH two years ago and, although it was not my favorite bike I've ridden, it rode well and I experienced no problems with it.

And about Cedric, I really think his results will improve because of the move. He obviously has a good relationship with Commencial and I am sure his input will be used to help them create a frame to best suit Cedric's need. I'm not to sure about how much rider input Cannondale uses.?.

 

[Jm_]

He did win the Rampage on one

Yeah.

And that has what to do with everyday riding?

 

[Jm_]

Dude, I know you're old enough to remember the fulcrum, don't be assinine. They choose to use a single pivot, as they own a pretty desirable design in the fulcrum setup...

Well, you're right.


No one wanted to race a 50lb DH bike.

 

[bizutch]

no...don't stop MadDher...egg him on..I'm laughing so hard!

 

[SuspectDevice]

Well, you're right.


No one wanted to race a 50lb DH bike.

The jackshaft made the bike you are thinking of heavy, cannondale engineers were racing a parralell link bike with a standard drivetrain up here in new england back in the late '90s that was a reasonable weight. There are ways to implement the original variable-wheelpath gemini design that is lighter as well. They've just performed a simple cost-benefit analysis.