[-C-]

It's time for a new helmet, i've had a couple of crashes recently in my D2 so its destined for the bin now.

Onviously it's a little early to get any decent reviews on the D3 bar the TLD propaganda, but the POC's have been out a while now, albeit in short supply - has anyone got one? Care to share experiences?

Sounds silly that I would almost rather not have a D3 because thats what it is, the POC's sure look different though. The multi impact thing is also a benefit too, as the being based in the UK, and having the D3 shipped from the States (for half the price of the UK!) means no crash replacement etc.

Is there any reason I should be discounting it as an option?

 

[norbar]

I see no reason to pay that much for TLD. Get THE for much less and spend your money on bike trips/ spare parts/ booze and hookers.

 

[jonKranked]

POC is one of, if not the only, multi-impact rated helmet in the MTB scene. Granted, there are no ISO/ASTM/etc standards in regards to multi-impact hits as of now, but from the marketing lit they have on their site they seem to have a good understanding of what they are doing. They started off as a ski company only a few years back, and from what I've read they're grown in popularity EXTREMELY fast.

Graphics wise, they are going minimalist, and it looks good. Nice thing about this is that its pretty much a blank slate if you do decide to paint it. I think they are introducing more colorways for 2010 as well (I seem to recall seeing a green helmet from the interbike photos).

I only know one person currently that has one, and he loves it. Granted, he is sponsored by POC, but I honestly don't think that biases his opinion in this case. He says the fit and venting is great.


edit: the POC helmet comes in 2 versions, carbon and fiberglass. The carbon version runs just over $500 USD, where as the fiberglass version is about half that.

 

[-C-]

I'm not paying anything close to retail though, so the difference in price between THE's and the other options isn't much.

I really dislike the garish designs of the THE's as well. Also a lot of questions regarding what/if any safety tests they have passed.

I'd prefer to protect my noggin that bit more if possible. I have also looked at the SE2 MX helmets.

 

[djjohnr]

Sounds silly that I would almost rather not have a D3 because thats what it is, the POC's sure look different though. The multi impact thing is also a benefit too, as the being based in the UK, and having the D3 shipped from the States (for half the price of the UK!) means no crash replacement etc.

Is there any reason I should be discounting it as an option?

No crash replacement

Buy based on -

A) What fits
B) What's manufactured well (hard to tell, almost no manufacturers make their own helmets, and they won't tell you who they contract)
C) What's designed well
D) A good crash replacement policy
E) What looks decent

 

[Total Heckler]

edit: the POC helmet comes in 2 versions, carbon and fiberglass. The carbon version runs just over $500 USD, where as the fiberglass version is about half that.

OMG THATS MORE THAN THE D3!!! EVERYONE PANIC!

Seriously, everyone complains about the price of the D3 ($450 USD). The D3 was in development for years from TLD. It may not have the multi-impact feature like the POC does, but I feel like it is a SOLID update on the D2 design. It has new emergency safety features (cheek pad removal tabs, 1/4 inch more EPS all around, emergency info on visors, etc), new design, and a bunch more vents (D2 had 8, the D3 has 20).

The helmet feels much safer than my D2 and is a lot more comfortable.

http://ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226443&page=5&highlight=helmets

 

[jonKranked]

OMG THATS MORE THAN THE D3!!! EVERYONE PANIC!

OH NOES!

I look at it this way, $500 may be a buttload of money for a helmet, but its way cheaper and less life altering than brain damage. Not to say that a helmet half that price won't protect your noodle, but either way its still cheaper than tens of thousands of dollars of medical bills.

 

[Eastern States Cup]

POC has now launched their first product with MIPS technology inside, POC Cortex DH.
The helmet was launched at Eurobike 2009 and awarded the Eurobike Innovation and Design Award 2009.

MIPS Helmet Info Here

Interesting, the TLD looks much better but.....................

 

[stinky6]

Pretty much every helmet is multiple impact rated if your good with a caulk gun and cunstruction adhesive. Just glue that foam back down and your good to go.

Also the cheaper POC helmet isn't multiple impact rated. I was looking at them a few weeks back and unless I totally missed something it is a standard style helmet.

 

[jonKranked]

Pretty much every helmet is multiple impact rated if your good with a caulk gun and cunstruction adhesive. Just glue that foam back down and your good to go.

Also the cheaper POC helmet isn't multiple impact rated. I was looking at them a few weeks back and unless I totally missed something it is a standard style helmet.

According to POC's website it is. Only difference is fiberglass outer shell instead of carbon, and additional vents.

edit: Gluing/caulking the foam core back to the outer shell doesn't fix the compression damage done to the foam, which is what absorbs the crash impact (and protects your noodle) I would not recommend this to anyone.

 

[-C-]

Ha, you think you have it bad on the D3 RRP. If you work it back on UK prices, it comes out at $811 USD

Still very undecided, however even if I bought a TLD in the UK is still wouldn't have any crash replacement. It just doesn't get offered here.

 

[Tmeyer]

I have no info on the D3 but when I tried the POC it had a very awkward fit. Granted everyone has a different shape head but my D2 fit A TON better than the POC. The POC felt long (front to back and narrow width wise. Just my .02.

 

[Total Heckler]

OH NOES!

I look at it this way, $500 may be a buttload of money for a helmet, but its way cheaper and less life altering than brain damage. Not to say that a helmet half that price won't protect your noodle, but either way its still cheaper than tens of thousands of dollars of medical bills.

Could not agree with you more.

Thats very similar to how I feel regarding the Leatt brace. Yeah it may be a lot of money, but I think having a better chance of walking later on in life is pretty rad.

 

[Total Heckler]

I have no info on the D3 but when I tried the POC it had a very awkward fit. Granted everyone has a different shape head but my D2 fit A TON better than the POC. The POC felt long (front to back and narrow width wise. Just my .02.

Let me know if you have any questions about the D3. I have one sitting at home.

 

[Ithnu]

What's the deal with the THE dual eps liner? Is that similar to motorcycle helmets, in that it slows your brain down gradually with an initial softer foam? Or is it some water wicking liner that has nothing to do with safety?

Sorry for the noob type question but I've been running a 661 moto helmet for years and just started looking at other options so I'm new to all these different ratings and materials (besides fiberglass vs. carbon that's obvious).

 

[dropmachine]

Every helmet is going to fit you differently, its the nature of the game. I just don't think the TLD can justify its cost for what I offers. Its definitely got Image Tax on it bigtime. I am sure its a great helmet, but it sure is pricey. I dunno that it protects any better either. With the POC being multihit, it just seems like you get more for the money, ya know?

Could also look at the Giro Remedy, which I personally think is a stellar helmet, although not nearly as pretty as the TLD.

 

[-C-]

Have tried 661's and the Remedy in the past and they unfortunately don't suit my shape of head.

With the lack of suppliers, the POC is a bit of a leap of faith in terms of fit, but hey, I can always send it back...

 

[jonKranked]

What's the deal with the THE dual eps liner? Is that similar to motorcycle helmets, in that it slows your brain down gradually with an initial softer foam? Or is it some water wicking liner that has nothing to do with safety?

My guess is that the dual EPS liner uses a dual density (or 2 layer) EPS. The density of the foam is what determines its impact-absorption capabilities.

Moto helmets are designed to withstand impacts at higher speeds (for moto sports), and hence use EPS that is more dense. This doesn't allow for good impact absorption at lower speeds. MTB helmets use a less dense EPS (than moto helmets), because they generally don't see impacts at as high of speeds.

Using a dual density EPS would allow for suitable impact absorption at both low and high speeds.

 

[dropmachine]

jonKranked you are so smart and helpful. If thats you in your Avatar you're an ugly fugger though.

Question though. Wouldn't that mean you have to use twice as much foam stuff to acheive the same protection?

 

[yetihenry]

C, it may be worth noting that Big Bear is not expecting a drop until March, so if you want the helmet anytime soon POC is out of the question.

Also, I know UK Trade prices, and best trade is more than importing one from jenson (who have the D3 at rrp, with free shipping, I havent even shopped around).

Personally Im going for an MX lid when my current D2 dies, D3 is just too much.

 

[jonKranked]

jQuestion though. Wouldn't that mean you have to use twice as much foam stuff to acheive the same protection?

Not necessarily. The impact absorption capabilities of EPS is actually primarily a function of both density and thickness (mass and speed of the object(s) that are impacting play a part also, but they are external factors of the material. I seem to recall surface area of contact between the 2 objects plays a part as well), but density is more of a key factor. You can actually achieve the same level of impact absorption with 2 different EPS densities by tweaking the thickness of each material.

So basically helmet manufacturers tweak their EPS formulation based on design and thickness of the helmet, in order to meet ASTM/SNELL/DOT standards.

If you're interested in the equations and science of it I can dig up one of my college texts at home tonight. To think, I learned this all in a packaging engineering course.

 

[-C-]

It's a physical helmet, not through a bike supplier - actually a ski & board shop through a friend of a friend.

I think they have scaled trade prices too, because it's cheaper than a US supplier with 20% off and $30 shipping on a D3.

 

[bizutch]

Odd that no one has mentioned the new Fox DH helmet in this discussion either. I've seen the marketing hype for it and the pics on Pinkbike, but nothing for it on their website. It seems like a pretty good looking helmet, moreso than the D3, with similar attributes and weight loss. Granted, it's still god awful proud of itself in terms of price. Anybody got news on when it ships out?

 

[klunky]

Odd that no one has mentioned the new Fox DH helmet in this discussion either. I've seen the marketing hype for it and the pics on Pinkbike, but nothing for it on their website. It seems like a pretty good looking helmet, moreso than the D3, with similar attributes and weight loss. Granted, it's still god awful proud of itself in terms of price. Anybody got news on when it ships out?

Got a link to this new fox lid?

 

[Total Heckler]

$379.95
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/fox-clothing-2010-2009.html

 

[Sandwich]

buy the one that fits you best, then protects you the best. I tried on all sizes of the specialized deviant and none of them fit me the way they should. Who cares if it protects better if it falls off in a crash. The remedy was a perfect fit for me, and that's what I bought.

Screw the graphics, protect your noggin.

 

[Total Heckler]

Screw the graphics, protect your noggin.

Nice one.

 

[Sandwich]

also, I'm not saying the D3 doesn't protect you as well. I haven't looked into it and I don't care...I can't afford a $450 helmet one way or the other. Just make sure to try whichever one you want on first, cause some helmets just fit weird.

 

[norbar]

I'm not paying anything close to retail though, so the difference in price between THE's and the other options isn't much.

I really dislike the garish designs of the THE's as well. Also a lot of questions regarding what/if any safety tests they have passed.

I'd prefer to protect my noggin that bit more if possible. I have also looked at the SE2 MX helmets.

From what I know mine and my friend ones protect very well (I land on my head alot). I feel better after direct head hits than in my old 661 but If you are after protection and have the poc at similar price as the I'd go for it over d3. Looking at the inside of the helmet in d3 it may protect well but some of the hits may hurt more and that's not what I'd really exepct from a helmet that is so damn expensive.

 

[sethimus]

THE helmets don't fit my head
POC helmets don't fit my head
TLD helmets fit my head

very easy for me

 

[djjohnr]

THE helmets don't fit my head
POC helmets don't fit my head
TLD helmets fit my head

very easy for me

Exactly the same for me. The only other one that comes close is the Bell Drop which I may try next.

 

[gemini2k]

OMG THATS MORE THAN THE D3!!! EVERYONE PANIC!

Seriously, everyone complains about the price of the D3 ($450 USD). The D3 was in development for years from TLD. It may not have the multi-impact feature like the POC does, but I feel like it is a SOLID update on the D2 design. It has new emergency safety features (cheek pad removal tabs, 1/4 inch more EPS all around, emergency info on visors, etc), new design, and a bunch more vents (D2 had 8, the D3 has 20).

The helmet feels much safer than my D2 and is a lot more comfortable.

http://ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226443&page=5&highlight=helmets

Ya my 661 flight hybrid II is better built (by far), has more protection, doesn't feel like a toy, and I only paid $100 brand new on chainlove! Still trying to figure out what you're paying for with a $4-500 helmet.

 

[ronan]

THE helmets don't fit my head
POC helmets don't fit my head
TLD helmets fit my head

very easy for me

the, poc and tld are the only helmet manufactures making good helmets out there you are right

 

[-BB-]

OH NOES!

I look at it this way, $500 may be a buttload of money for a helmet, but its way cheaper and less life altering than brain damage. Not to say that a helmet half that price won't protect your noodle, but either way its still cheaper than tens of thousands of dollars of medical bills.

I will have to DISAGREE with this one. Yes, it is cheaper, but why not run an MX helmet instead. MORE protection for a cheaper price. Yeah, it is heavier... trust me, I know.

 

[jonKranked]

I will have to DISAGREE with this one. Yes, it is cheaper, but why not run an MX helmet instead. MORE protection for a cheaper price. Yeah, it is heavier... trust me, I know.

see post #18....

http://ridemonkey.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3359839&postcount=18


edit: the point I was trying to convey with the post you quoted is that regardless of the price of a helmet, it will ***ALWAYS*** be cheaper than the medical bills associated with severe head trauma.

 

[gemini2k]

see post #18....

http://ridemonkey.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3359839&postcount=18

That theory seems flawed. By that logic, moto people would ALWAYS be getting concussions when they hit their head, which simply just doesn't happen. I never hear of people saying their head hurts after a crash on a moto helmet, but regularly when they use an MTB helmet. Again, this whole "theory" that moto helmets will cause all sorts of injuries at low speed, but none at high speed just doesn't add up. It's not like the transmitted force to your head is going to be lower at high speeds than low speeds for some different foam. Unless this is some magical material like d3o I'm unaware of.

 

[jonKranked]

That theory seems flawed. By that logic, moto people would ALWAYS be getting concussions when they hit their head, which simply just doesn't happen. I never hear of people saying their head hurts after a crash on a moto helmet, but regularly when they use an MTB helmet. Again, this whole "theory" that moto helmets will cause all sorts of injuries at low speed, but none at high speed just doesn't add up. It's not like the transmitted force to your head is going to be lower at high speeds than low speeds for some different foam. Unless this is some magical material like d3o I'm unaware of.

Re-read what I wrote. Moto helmets are DESIGNED to withstand impacts at higher speeds. When I stated that "This doesn't allow for good impact absorption at lower speeds" I poorly phrased it. I didn't mean to imply that they provide poor protection at low speed, just not necessarily as good when compared to a helmet DESIGNED primarily for lower speed impacts. It's not like EPS is going to absorb impacts of solely a certain impact force, but over a range of impact force(s). For moto helmets vs mtb helmets, this range is shifted to encompass higher force impacts (what these ranges are defined at, I don't know. I don't design moto helmets. This is all based on study the use of EPS foam in packaging distribution. However it is the same material - expanded polystyrene - so it functions and acts fundamentally the same).

Bear in mind that as the speed and force of an impact decrease, so does the likelihood of a concussion.

It's not like the transmitted force to your head is going to be lower at high speeds than low speeds for some different foam.

The purpose of foam is absorb and disperse the impact forces before they reach your head. If the foam is formulated that way, then yes, the scenario you described could theoretically happen. It's kinda similar to how resonant frequencies work.

this whole "theory" that moto helmets will cause all sorts of injuries at low speed, but none at high speed just doesn't add up.

I never stated that, don't put words into my mouth. Nowhere did I state that helmets cause injuries.

 

[gemini2k]

Moto helmets are DESIGNED to withstand impacts at higher speeds.

My bet is they are designed to withstand harder impacts. To say (or imply) that impacts are only dependent on speed is very naive. When I crashed at 30-40 on my moto in the desert, i didn't hit my head ANYWHERE NEAR as hard as when I ****ed up the drop on velocity and smashed my head on a rock, despite the ~5x difference in speed. And yes, that is totally relevant and not some asinine argument. You hit your head on rocks wayyyy more in DH than moto, especially if you only ride track. Also, I don't get this low-speed argument in DH. Who are you people that don't go above 20-30mph ever on your DH bike? Christ I go 20+ on my trailbike from time to time!

The purpose of foam is absorb and disperse the impact forces before they reach your head. If the foam is formulated that way, then yes, the scenario you described could theoretically happen. It's kinda similar to how resonant frequencies work.

Verrrrrrrry unlikely to work that way IMO

I never stated that, don't put words into my mouth. Nowhere did I state that helmets cause injuries.

And neither did I . Crashes cause injuries! I should've been clearer, I guess I meant "fail to protect against"

I just think MTB helmets are DANGEROUSLY underdesigned pieces of garbage and horribly overpriced. I think selling those TLD's for those prices is immoral. Not only are you ripping people off, but they are also trying to imply that it'll protect you better than cheaper (moto?) helmets. No matter how much they deny that last point, don't tell me their marketing strategy doesn't rely on that.

 

[dropmachine]

In that case, do you find the Leatt brace to be offensive as well, as its so highly priced?

Cause I kinda do.

I see exactly what JK is trying to say. Moto helmets are designed to dissipate the force between an expected range of speeds. Bicycle helmets are too, but the speed is lower. The fact that you can go outside those ranges is irrelevant, as you can go outside the range of ANYTHING if you try hard enough. You cannot expect any product to do its job in any and all situations. Thats like asking a SID to be an excellent jump fork.

If you're fast, run a moto helmet. If you're not, MTB. End.

 

[Kanye West]

The claim everyone is making that moto helmets work better at high speed than they do at low speed....but even at low speed they're STILL better than bike helmets. I would know. I've fallen going slow and going WAY too fast on both (think 60mph desert crashes on the moto and having to bail on hillclimbs to a 20' vertical fall, and crashing on the Kamikaze DH). Claiming otherwise is ridiculous. I've gotten minor concussions from stupid STUPID little sh*t on the MTB wearing D2 helmets, and felt like I might as well have just been wearing an XC lid. Grazing against a small rock as I'm sliding to a stop shouldn't rattle my fvcking brain as I stuff the front wheel and go over in a switchback.

Bike helmets are fine and all, but marketing them as superior in protection to....anything...is insulting. Charging the same as a high end Shoei or Arai helmet is pretty much hilarious too.