new Knolly website is up
- Thread starter Kntr
- Start date
They are expensive but worth the money IMO. I like em. There is a lot of thought put into their bikes. It seems to be an FSR with an added link so you can have a full length seat tube. I like the angle of the seat tube too. When you lower the seat, it moves forward quite a bit. Its a little heavy at about 13lbs.
I like that they will upgrade you to a larger size if you get taller for the price of a crash replacement. Good for the young kids.
I like that they will upgrade you to a larger size if you get taller for the price of a crash replacement. Good for the young kids.
Had a marathon day yesterday helping the Knolly crew build up bikes for Interbike. They have their own booth at the show this year and they will have a number of V-tachs, Delirium Ts and a couple of Free Radicals on display and for the demo. They even managed to get a couple of the 5x5 Endorphin prototypes ready in time. The productions Delirium Ts are in, I hauled one home early this morning and its almost finished.
Knolly is pretty much about top-end manufacturing; high tolerances, expensive bearings, extensive machining. He's not really competing with the Special-Eds of the world.
The lineup is really lookin awsome
It's interesting that Knolly doesn't call his linkage an FSR, since it is an FSR. The extra linkage has no effect on the rear end of the bike, so rear suspension is a horst link just like specalized uses. It's wierd because Knolly tries to claim his design is 'unique' and therefore patentable, although the exact part that is 'unique" is the extra linkage that drives the shock, just like the brodie 8-ball used and a few other bikes. It seems like he's trying to get around the specialized patent by claiming a part that isn't even affecting the wheelpath is original, which it really isn't.
Rant over.
Rant over.
he doesnt need to call it an FSR (Spec' marketing term btw, not a real word), the patent isnt recognized in Canada. I know he did do a custom analysis of the "FSR" part of the linkage to suit his needs, he just didnt rip a geometry off. He'll basically tell you that he believes in the FSR 4 bar type, but with regards to a specific..uhh, specification. He's not trying to fool anyone.
I suppose...all because of the border, but the fact remains its an FSR.
Damn nice bikes, really nice site, BIG photos.
Well, it's not the fact that the patents don't apply to canada that really bugs me, it's the fact that knolly has tried to deny that he's using an FSR linkage on mtbr before, and when asked about what exactly he is "patenting', it gets a little blurry from there on.and if so you'd expect him to call it that? he couldn't even if he wanted to...well unless he wanted to 'volunteer' to pay a licensing fee, or if he wants to distribute to the US.
No wait you're right Specialized should get their due really
actually it looks like it may not even follow under the FSR patents; look in the photo gallery and note that the chainstay pivot seems to be inline with the rear axle...i believe the FSR requires it be under?
anyways, ever here DW tell you the exact nature of his patents before they went through the system?
Jm_, if you know so fuggin' much, why aren't you designing your own bike?
Oh that's right. It's a whole lot easier and safer to be a lamer critic of things you don't understand, than to try to actually understand things and perhaps improve upon them.
Noel's 4x4 is no more FSR than Kona's design is FSR, than Ventana's design is FSR. You show your ignorance by using "similar appearance with extra links" as your basis for claiming 4x4 is FSR.
Face it, Jm_, you're a fuggin' eedjit and you couldn't do what Noel's doing in a million centuries.
The simple truth is that if the suspension rate is modified from FSR, and adds 2 links, and alters pivot positions, it ceases being FSR/Horst and becomes a design derived from FSR/Horst. Noel would be the first to tell you that he had the Turner RFX in mind as one of his benchmarks when originally conceptualizing the first V-Tach. And what was the RFX back then? Oh yeah. FSR/Horst. So Noel took what he liked about that bike, and changed a few things, improved a few things.
Under Jm_'s "logic," everything is a copy of the Wright Brothers' first bicycle. Mainly because they all use wheels, a frame, a drivetrain, a seat, and a steering mechanism.
Fuggin' pathetic lamer pseudo-engineer Jm_, embarrassing himself one post at a time.
Oh that's right. It's a whole lot easier and safer to be a lamer critic of things you don't understand, than to try to actually understand things and perhaps improve upon them.
Noel's 4x4 is no more FSR than Kona's design is FSR, than Ventana's design is FSR. You show your ignorance by using "similar appearance with extra links" as your basis for claiming 4x4 is FSR.
Face it, Jm_, you're a fuggin' eedjit and you couldn't do what Noel's doing in a million centuries.
The simple truth is that if the suspension rate is modified from FSR, and adds 2 links, and alters pivot positions, it ceases being FSR/Horst and becomes a design derived from FSR/Horst. Noel would be the first to tell you that he had the Turner RFX in mind as one of his benchmarks when originally conceptualizing the first V-Tach. And what was the RFX back then? Oh yeah. FSR/Horst. So Noel took what he liked about that bike, and changed a few things, improved a few things.
Under Jm_'s "logic," everything is a copy of the Wright Brothers' first bicycle. Mainly because they all use wheels, a frame, a drivetrain, a seat, and a steering mechanism.
Fuggin' pathetic lamer pseudo-engineer Jm_, embarrassing himself one post at a time.
That means that it's Ellsworth ICT then :biggrin:
I can't tell if the pivot is below the dropout because the frame is sitting upright by itself in most of the pictures, you gotta see it built up and level to really determine it.
Holy crap that's a lot of misinformation.
First of all, an "FSR" is a horst link bike, which is what the knollys are. There is nothing with the linkages or rate that comes into play here. By having different linkage geometry, you get different rates. Hence why you have different rates on things like specialized SXs, turner 6 packs, 5 spots, FSR XCs, and so on. It has nothing to really do with that rear dropout which makes the bike an "FSR".
Konas, single pivot.
Ventanas, single pivot.
Specialized, horst link "FSR".
Knolly, horst link "FSR".
"Similer appearance" has nothing to do with it. That comment probably shows your ignorance more than anything. The design of the dropout and horst link is why. A specialized demo looks nothing like my turner 6 pack, but both utilize an FSR rear end.
I'm not saying that knolly didn't design this bike. I'm not saying that he "ripped off" the design. I'm not saying that he hasn't improved on most "FSR" designs that are out there, but just as a turner fell under the specialized patents, so does the knolly. Both manufacturers designed their own bikes, their own geometry, the amount of progression they wanted, their own frame shapes, and so on.
You're ridiculous.
Quite literally true. I was ridiculing Jm_. Thanks for noticing.
While you call my post "misinformation," you can only conclude that way if you misread it and add your own content. As usual, Jm_, it's more important to you to feel and post feelings of superiority, than it is for you to be honest or accurate. Enjoy your sad inferiority complex, pilot boy.
Main Entry: ri·dic·u·lous
Pronunciation: r&-'di-ky&-l&s
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin ridiculosus (from ridiculum jest, from neuter of ridiculus) or ridiculus, literally, laughable, from ridEre to laugh
: arousing or deserving ridicule : ABSURD, PREPOSTEROUS
synonym see LAUGHABLE
- ri·dic·u·lous·ly adverb
- ri·dic·u·lous·ness noun
Next time use the dictionary.
Pronunciation: r&-'di-ky&-l&s
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin ridiculosus (from ridiculum jest, from neuter of ridiculus) or ridiculus, literally, laughable, from ridEre to laugh
: arousing or deserving ridicule : ABSURD, PREPOSTEROUS
synonym see LAUGHABLE
- ri·dic·u·lous·ly adverb
- ri·dic·u·lous·ness noun
Next time use the dictionary.
Next time try learning how to READ that dictionary you ask me to use.
What did you miss about "from ridiculum"?
Are you saying you don't understand etymology?
Pretty sad that you're reaching and bending over backward to try to demonstrate your "cleverness" that is superior to me, when you just make more errors of illogic.
Extreme insecurity. I feel sorry for you. Just think of the hundreds of RM members that aren't so insecure anytime someone calls them on misinformatino.
Knolly should be awarded a patent for Fourx4, then sue Specialized into oblivion for patent infringement.
It will be funny!
It will be funny!
Zedro is right, the patent applies to the pivot being on or below the CL of the axle. I think you can get away from the patent if you are more than 2cm below axle CL. Remember the Giant NRS?
However, if the pivot is above the axle, it negates the small benefits of the horst link. At that point, you would be better off putting the axle on the seatstay and gaining some simplicity/stiffness. Of course, then it would just be a kona
That is a really nice website. Other manufactures take note.
Good pictures, easily navigable, PRICES!, and geometry in metric and english. Nice.
However, if the pivot is above the axle, it negates the small benefits of the horst link. At that point, you would be better off putting the axle on the seatstay and gaining some simplicity/stiffness. Of course, then it would just be a kona
That is a really nice website. Other manufactures take note.
Good pictures, easily navigable, PRICES!, and geometry in metric and english. Nice.
the site looks good, although I liked the more photo-based one from last year.
frames are looking better than ever.
frames are looking better than ever.
well i know he wanted to pay as much attention to braking as he did to all else (and of course the shock rate with the extra links); he never claimed ultra-super pedalling efficiency (which we wouldnt argue about for the FSR anyways), but that his goal was to round off all the aspects of the suspension.However, if the pivot is above the axle, it negates the small benefits of the horst link. At that point, you would be better off putting the axle on the seatstay and gaining some simplicity/stiffness. Of course, then it would just be a kona
This is what JM is talking about.
Straight from the website;
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The Solution : Knolly's patent pending Four by 4 Linkage:
The Four by 4 Linkage isn't just a secondary four bar linkage – it is a formula on how to design and build a full suspension frame that incorporates rear wheel path, seat tube placement, shock placement, seat clearance (for those technical moves), rear end lateral rigidity, climbing geometry and other aspects into a frame's design.
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I sort of agree with JM but the bike still kicks booty.
Id love to have one but since its about twice the price of my current frame, I think Ill have to wait.
Straight from the website;
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The Solution : Knolly's patent pending Four by 4 Linkage:
The Four by 4 Linkage isn't just a secondary four bar linkage – it is a formula on how to design and build a full suspension frame that incorporates rear wheel path, seat tube placement, shock placement, seat clearance (for those technical moves), rear end lateral rigidity, climbing geometry and other aspects into a frame's design.
------------------------------------------------------------------
I sort of agree with JM but the bike still kicks booty.
Id love to have one but since its about twice the price of my current frame, I think Ill have to wait.
And I highly agree, because knolly really realizes the shortcommings of the general design (every single design has advantages and disadvantages) and he addresses them, as well as those are some pretty slick dropouts. I think FS bikes should be as lateraly rigid as possible, and the knolly designs definitely emphasize this.the bike still kicks booty.
super nice site.
clear rez pics.
metric or english geo. i like that!
i like there bb adj. and 16.5 cs.
The Delirium T is one sweet bike. I took mine for a ride today and had a blast. Noel did a good job of keeping the great handling characteristics of the V-tach and matching them up with a lighter and more nimble package. It makes for a great all mountain or bike. It will be interesting to compare it to the V-tach at Whistler but that will have to wait until next year.
Suprisingly enough, even after the martahon on friday, didn't get home until 6am, I didn't find loose bolts or other mistakes on the buildup saturday. I need to make stickers for it that say "V-tach Jr." or "Baby V-tach".
Suprisingly enough, even after the martahon on friday, didn't get home until 6am, I didn't find loose bolts or other mistakes on the buildup saturday. I need to make stickers for it that say "V-tach Jr." or "Baby V-tach".