I was really hoping their fork cart would be easy to revalve. It's actually a real pain in the ass though. You need some very expensive specialty tools for no reason. Plus you still have to rebuild the entire fork to do it.
New Zokes
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i was told the 380 will be similar price to the RC3 EVO TI when i asked the guys at Marz when they serviced my fork last month , they also have a trade-in program
Eggcellent
I hope that 380 fork is a leap forward as well. Could be a sweet year for DH suspension.
Um, $49 for the tool, and that's it. Nothing else specialty that you need tool-wise. You don't have to change the seals or even the oil if you don't want to and for what reason would you be replacing the bushings? (rebuild). I did this several times, it was fine. If you have issues doing this, you probably shouldn't do much more than install derailleurs and chains on a bike. God forbid you actually bleed brakes or something that requires 2-3 hands.
If you are pretending that "rebuild" means you have to assemble/disassemble the entire fork, then that part is not true either. Leave the oil in the spring leg or opposite leg, put fork in a bike-stand. Pan or bowl under cartridge leg, undo foot-nut, rotate fork to allow oil to drain out. Undo top-cap. Take cartridge out. Unscrew cartridge parts (been a while since I did it, not hard though), revalve, reassemble, put cart back in fork, re-attach footnut, refill with oil, put top-cap back on. To revalve just about any cart is going to have a similar amount of complexity, moreso with the bladder-type dampers.
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What the Sam heck? For reals? Anybody understand how this would work?
Plus shipping. So I gotta spend $60 for a specialty tool that SHOULD be totally unnecessary? Yes it's not hard to revalve it once you get that tool. But for a product that markets itself as so "moto inspired" and well thought out, it's kinda lame. None of my KYB forks need anything like that, and I'm 99% sure Showa stuff doesn't.
Especially since it's marketed as a "custom tune" when you buy it and it wasn't even close, for any avy fork that I've seen. None of these things are a big deal, but lots of small annoyances that make you say "seriously?".
(I was using rebuld as a euphemism for anything that requires draining oil from a fork leg, perhaps a bit broad.)
$60 is still less then the $1000 premium over other forks if you get the Devo.
the dvo will only be around $500-600 over the others on the market
i asked them 4 or so months ago about the MSRP, the guy who replied to my email said around the same price as the new air40.. yeah rrrrrrrrright.
Just doing a quick search for Boxxer World cup I could find it for $1263 or $1340 for a Dorado Pro. I know its not MSRP but you can always get deals on the usual suspects.
Here's the tool for Showa stuff:
Yes, it'd be nice if it's special-tool-less, but definitely not a major issue.
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Wtf tool is that?Here's the tool for Showa stuff:
Yes, it'd be nice if it's special-tool-less, but definitely not a major issue.
I've been through every KYB, WP, and Showa unit (fork legs and shocks) made in the last decade and a half, and have yet to need anything more than a crescent wrench, 17mm socket, and a seal driver for the Showas. I can't even think of what that tool would be used for.
Most certainly not marketing crap. It's worth the large investment of capital and time to do it right because it works.If your hoping that the Carbon torsion arch (as DVO calls it) will help out I'm pretty sure it won't at all. The attachment points of the arch will make it pretty much useless, it would be very interesting to see any measurement or calculation to support their 50% increase in torsional stiffness. Which I believe to be marketing bull****
Don't take my word for it though. When they're out, go try it out with and without the guard on. It's easy enough to do.
But everyone is using FIT cartridges with mid-valves now, so you can just buy a right-side-up fork for $1000 less that will be at least as stiff. Use the $1000 to buy porn. Well, porn is free. Hookers.
Trust me, I'm all for saving money and jacking off instead.
And I won't say the current MSRP estimate isn't high, but it should be a step above whatever else is out there. All the little details should make it add up to a really nicely polished unit. Just find the gnarliest parking lot you can find to session and you'll see.
This whole "durrr it's got a mid-valve so it's more better" thing has got to go too. There's a LOT to a properly functioning mid-valve, and most MTB dampers are still just really cheap compromises that don't deliver anywhere near the full benefits of a well-developed mid-valve design. In fact, it's really easy for someone to haphazardly make one that performs WORSE than just a check plate. Now THAT is something that has genuinely been turned into marketing excrement.
That's not what I meant. What I meant is that all the major manufacturers seem to be on board with actual valid damping systems that are capable and revalveable. The midvalve thing is just one small aspect of it, and if a particular fork doesn't have it, it wouldn't be a huge deal to me, but the bigger point is that these systems are now capable of amazing performance, not limited by ridiculous spring-checkvalve dampers (RC3) or a silly motion control unit that feels like a sponge. Someone kicked these major fork manufacturer's in the rear end in the last 3-4 years and we've seen the tech progress far faster than in the previous 12 or so years IMO. It seems like they are mostly on even playing fields now. When it stops raining, I'll ride my pike some more.
le sigh. id love to have two days of testing with a suspension guru like ronnie making tweaks for me. i went out last weekend adjusting spring rates on my 888 and was all set on playing with oil levels as well but i was having too much fun riding and forgot about it...i did find the Xfirm Ti spring to be extremely stiff in the last third of its travel (with the VAR full out) and the fork pretty much lost all of its small bump sensitivity and didnt track well even with the compression full open. unfortunately when i switched to the Firm Ti spring, i clipped a tree and ate it hard ending my riding for the day.
its refreshing to see a suspension company trying to be open about how their ish works and how you can make it work for you. that OTT adjustment is interesting. i hadnt really heard anything about that previously.
Hey, I was expecting this to be a 380 review!
It won't work. Why? It's pretty simple. The attachment points are pretty much where the axle is. The axle is reasonably stiff, just as in any downhill fork. The next thing that gives torsional stiffness in a regular fork is the arch, and then the crowns. How much torsional displacement you have in the fork is related to the distance between the arch and the crowns and the axle. If you have a long distance you will have larger displacement (more leverage).
The problem with the arch is in the attachment, even though it passes right over the wheel, it will not give any extra stiffness since it's attached very near the axle, and the upper part of the arch will just twist along (it's just too long to be sufficiently stiff). To decrease the torsional displacement you have to either beef up the legs, or add a connection between the legs, this connection should be pretty much straight, like the arch in a regular fork.
I work as a mechanical engineer in the automotive industry and have worked with problems similar to this, so even without doing any calculations I would say that I don't believe for a second it will increase stiffness anywhere near as much as advertised. The CTA arch itself is probably stiff if you try and twist it, but in total it won't give any extra stiffness due to the attachment between the arch and the fork.
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where did you buy your armchair?
It's not meant to couple the transverse bending of both legs.
It's meant to couple the upper and lower legs as a stronger prismatic pair. The axle by itself does an OK job, but not a very complete job with the amount of leverage put on it from the radius of the wheel, and the handlebars.
Look up "prismatic pair in spatial linkages", fully comprehend that part, and you'll see why/how it works.
Automotive engineers are a funny bunch.
ftfy.
put 10 engineers in a room and get 20 different answers
^^^ this, especially considering some of the nutty sh*t that is being done with directional composites these days
you won't get any answers, just more questions.
Yup! Directional composite building/analysis is fun. Friggin' nasty work though.
touche
I'm no mechanical engineer, or theorist. All I know is: try it. If it works it works, if it doesn't it doesn't. Arguing over it is stupid.
I didn't say that it was meant to couple the transverse bending, I was talking about torsional stiffness. Could you please a bit more specific how it would affect the torsional stiffness, I don't agree that it would make any significant difference in terms of torsional stiffness. Or just send it by PM since discussions like this don't seem to be so appreciated here. The reason I posted this was to question the product because I believe some of it don't work, but instead I woke up the trolls.
Removes the cartridge tube cap for the open bath Showa forks.
i got a buddy that does it for a living in the auto industry. makes a killing, has a lot of fun toys. newest is a unimog. newest as in most recent acquisition.
Yeah I've been looking around a bit at composite engineering stuff lately, but I honestly have no desire to do hands-on work with it ever again, at least not fibrous/glass composites. Sheet laminates and plastics are fine, but cutting sheets of dry pre-preg basically means that you're going to be inhaling particulate and a lot of it.
he's in the design end of things and has minions to do the dirty work.
working with it all day that alone won't cut it... you need proper air circulation & filtration.... air hoods are ideal too.????
