[djjohnr]

I've seen a few posts stating the Maestro is a blatant rip-off of the DW link, so I pulled a bunch of images of similar 4 bar configurations. All of them have very different virtual pivot points, but surprisingly the closest to the DW pivot point is the old Cortina DH-8, which came out years before the DW-Link.

 

[CBJ]

And what then?

 

[pelo]

Did the Cortina come before the Balfa 2-step DH?

 

[Wobbler]

1996/1997 VR1, what is the point of this thread again


ps a horst isnt always vertical, a single pivot in the same place as a demo 9's front pivot has less rearward travel..

 

[FCLinder]

I remember seeing one of those back in the day in person. So heavy!!! It was the first of its kind though....

 

[syadasti]

The giants are similar to the older iteration of the dw-link - see the first few Hollowpoints with DW-link...

 

[djjohnr]

Not really -

As to the point of the thread - I see alot of RM postings saying that XYZ suspension design is a rip-off of DW, I'm just pointing out that that's not really the case. These are all different designs.

(Saying non-horst in the title was the closest thing I could think of to saying "4 bar suspension designs with the chainstay pivot closer the main pivot then the rear axle".)

 

[buildyourown]

Wait, how are you analyzing the axle paths? By comparing the pictures? There is way more to suspension design than you understand. Tiny changes in link length and pivot placement can have a huge effect on suspension.
Stop over thinking it and just ride your bike

 

[syadasti]

Not really -

Yes you don't really know what you are talking about the DW-Link was a mid-year release 2002.5. That version infringed on the VPP patents. This is the 2002.5 with the first iteration of DW-link:

 

[djjohnr]

IC does look closer here.

you don't really know what you are talking about

Sorry. F*ck your attitude though.

 

[Spokompton]

The giants are similar to the older iteration of the dw-link - see the first few Hollowpoints with DW-link...

DW link pedals better out of saddle than the Maestro version.


DW didn't invent a new wheel, he just made the old stuff work way better.



Now if only we could get DW linkage on better quality bikes and with better geometry. All of the Iron Horse bikes except the Sunday have great feeling rear ends, but God aweful geo. I can see how the geo works in some parts of the world, but here in PNW, it just doesn't feel right in tight, steep, and slow techy sections.

 

[syadasti]

DW link pedals better out of saddle than the Maestro version.

The suspension geometry has changed over the years so that depends on what version you are comparing.

 

[Sandwich]

also the rocket 88, but i think the vr-1 takes the cake for virtual pivot originality.

 

[ÆX]

can't see the links but they are under the BB.

first vpp i remember

 

[dw]

I've seen a few posts stating the Maestro is a blatant rip-off of the DW link, so I pulled a bunch of images of similar 4 bar configurations. All of them have very different virtual pivot points, but surprisingly the closest to the DW pivot point is the old Cortina DH-8, which came out years before the DW-Link.

I suggest reading the patents, then bringing up educated discussion. The cortina bike in no way similar to dw-link other than the fact that they both use short links. Like I said, read the dw-link patents, understand them, then you will understand why people call some bikes "ripoffs" of the dw-link models.

 

[djjohnr]

The cortina bike in no way similar to dw-link other than the fact that they both use short links.

If you read the whole thread, you'd know I wasn't saying you copied the Cortina.

These are all different designs.

 

[lovebunny]

who cares? ride your damn bikes. either read up on the subject or talk to someone who knows what they are talking about

 

[Huck Banzai]

who cares? ride your damn bikes. either read up on the subject or talk to someone who knows what they are talking about

DW designed the DW link, who better to talk to?

 

[CKxx]

I suggest reading the patents, then bringing up educated discussion. The cortina bike in no way similar to dw-link other than the fact that they both use short links. Like I said, read the dw-link patents, understand them, then you will understand why people call some bikes "ripoffs" of the dw-link models.

Do you happen to have any patent numbers or search criteria to find said patents? I'm not having any luck on uspto.gov, and I've tried various methods of searching.

 

[Percy]

1996/1997 VR1, what is the point of this thread again


ps a horst isnt always vertical, a single pivot in the same place as a demo 9's front pivot has less rearward travel..

Good grief man, that is an uuuuuugly bicycle!

 

[Wobbler]

Oh god yes

The VR1 frame also weighed a proverbial crapload more than the d8 frame haha

 

[dante]

I suggest reading the patents, then bringing up educated discussion.

you realize that there's probably about 3 people on this entire site (including you) that could do that, right?

Do you happen to have any patent numbers or search criteria to find said patents? I'm not having any luck on uspto.gov, and I've tried various methods of searching.

easiest way is to go to google patents and search under "weagle". http://www.google.com/ptshp?tab=wt

same with the uspto.gov website where you can find most applied patents as well. (for some reason the uspto.gov site shows an additional patent that the google site doesn't...)

 

[bent^biker]

google patents is a beatiful thing

 

[jason3559]

http://www.google.com/patents?id=ISx3AAAAEBAJ&dq=weagle