[oldfart]

Originally posted by towelie
Does anybody else remember the early/mid 90's when rapidfire came out? For a few years, you could only get rapid fire shifters integrated into Shimano brake levers. While this meant you couldn't pick seperate angles for your shifters and brakes, it wasn't too big a deal since the levers would work with any canti's, which was pretty much all anybody used at the time.

Well, now they've COMPLETELY integrated the shifter with the brake lever so they can never be seperated, AND you can only use those brake levers with their calipers, which are packaged with their rotors, which are only compatible with their hubs. If somebody likes Shimano shifters, you have to get Shimano everything.

So...will they offer stand alone rapid fire shifters for awhile longer, or are they going to totally leave their old customers high and dry the minute a shifter breaks or wears out? If everything is going dual control and rapid-rise, as soon as you break a rear derailer or shifter, you are totally screwed and will need a pretty much brand new drivetrain if you intend to stay with Shimano.

They've just gone too far this time.

Wrong. Wrong wrong. DT Swiss make centerlock hubs. There will be others too. Shimano still make the XT hydraulic lever alone. 02 XTR is still available. Many 6 bolt rotors to choose from.

Race face have copied the new bb designs and I'm sure all the others will soon too. I don't know if the bb's will be cross compatible for sure , but I think that they are.

Why would you be tottaly screwed if you broke a derailleur or Shifter? Go buy another one.

Guess what you can't get top end 7 speed stuff anymore. So. If you ride top end stuff, I would think you can afford new stuff easily. That's like a Mercedes owner complaining about gas prices.

 

[ghostrider]

Originally posted by oldfart
If you ride top end stuff, I would think you can afford new stuff easily.

Now that what I would call "wrong wrong wrong." Which orifice did you pull that one out of?

I think it is interesting to note that Shimano is now offering XTR disc brakes with 6-bolt rotors. The market will ultimately determine which products endure, and if I were a betting man, I'd put my dough on SRAM right now.

 

[Echo]

Originally posted by oldfart
Race face have copied the new bb designs and I'm sure all the others will soon too. I don't know if the bb's will be cross compatible for sure , but I think that they are.

So maybe Shimano learned a lesson from their Octalink/ISIS bungle.

Anyway, like you said, I'm gonna buy what I like. And last time I checked, I was entitled to express my opinion about what I don't like.

 

[Westy]

Originally posted by Echo
Anyway, like you said, I'm gonna buy what I like. And last time I checked, I was entitled to express my opinion about what I don't like.

You may not realize it yet but you actually do not like your own opinion. A representative from Shimano will be contacting you soon about an attitude adjustment. Thank you for having little choice in riding S components.

 

[ghostrider]

Originally posted by Echo
And last time I checked, I was entitled to express my opinion about what I don't like.

Go check again - this is not a discussion forum, this is a "Tell it like it is, everybody else is a stupid whiner" soapbox.

 

[Squeak]

Originally posted by Westy
You may not realize it yet but you actually do not like your own opinion. A representative from Shimano will be contacting you soon about an attitude adjustment. Thank you for having little choice in riding S components.

 

[Skookum]

Originally posted by Westy
You may not realize it yet but you actually do not like your own opinion. A representative from Shimano will be contacting you soon about an attitude adjustment. Thank you for having little choice in riding S components.

Thanx alot i'm afraid to answer the phone now.

 

[PaulE]

Originally posted by oldfart

Race face have copied the new bb designs and I'm sure all the others will soon too. I don't know if the bb's will be cross compatible for sure , but I think that they are.

Why would you be tottaly screwed if you broke a derailleur or Shifter? Go buy another one.

Guess what you can't get top end 7 speed stuff anymore. So. If you ride top end stuff, I would think you can afford new stuff easily. That's like a Mercedes owner complaining about gas prices.

Aren't the raceface BBs ISIS, rather than shimano splined? The only similar thing is the outboard bearings..... which Bullseye did years ago, so did Shimano copy them?

You'd be screwed if you broke a rapidfire shifter because to replace it, you'll need to get the new combined shifter/lever, and then need a new brake calliper to go with that (assumin you're in the majority and running brakes other than shimano)... and if you're unlucky, then you'll need a new hub or rotor to match.

 

[oldfart]

The newest Race Face cranks, Diabolus, Deus and Atlas are not ISIS. They use a very similar system to Shimano's latest. The bearings sit outside the bb shell and a very large spindle is permanently attached to the non drive crank and is clamped or screwed to the drive side. I haven't seeen any in real life yet though.

I wouldn't say you would be screwed if you had to buy a new combo shifter and brake lever. It would cost more but you wouldn't be screwed. Screwed to me means you can't get a new shifter at all so you have to change a bunch of stuff.

 

[Cash-Money]

looking in the new bti catalouge...

XT brakes with 8inch rotors available with just levers

XTR brakes available with splined or IS 6 bolt rotors

XT and Deore levers available seperatly

 

[rockracing]

Originally posted by Sven tha Viking
looking in the new bti catalouge...

XT brakes with 8inch rotors available with just levers

XTR brakes available with splined or IS 6 bolt rotors

XT and Deore levers available seperatly

yeah I saw a 2004 scott bike at the lbs that had xt calipers and separate levers which are exactly the same as last years xt levers, but not black with silver lever, think it had a black lever and the XT "beige" color for the rest.

 

[PaulE]

Originally posted by oldfart
The newest Race Face cranks, Diabolus, Deus and Atlas are not ISIS. They use a very similar system to Shimano's latest. The bearings sit outside the bb shell and a very large spindle is permanently attached to the non drive crank and is clamped or screwed to the drive side. I haven't seeen any in real life yet though.

I wouldn't say you would be screwed if you had to buy a new combo shifter and brake lever. It would cost more but you wouldn't be screwed. Screwed to me means you can't get a new shifter at all so you have to change a bunch of stuff.

Fair enough about the race face cranks. didn't realise they were going 2 piece too. Strange how these ideas come and go though - I'm sure that tomac used to race on a similar system, called the tioga revolver (or something like that). Always seemed a good idea too, nice to see it re-appearing.

The costing a lot more is what would make me screwed, and I think that having to change brakes as well is changing a bunch of stuff..... 6 bolt rotors being available does make it a bit less severe though.

 

[Drevil]

Originally posted by SkaredShtles


I :heart: thumbies.........

-S.S.-

Thumbies not yet:
http://www.paulcomp.com/thumbmtn.html

 

[blue]

those look like downtubes off a roadie...

 

[splat]

they are a converted set of Bar ends

 

[fonseca]

Originally posted by PaulE
Fair enough about the race face cranks. didn't realise they were going 2 piece too. Strange how these ideas come and go though - I'm sure that tomac used to race on a similar system, called the tioga revolver (or something like that).

Bullseye used a larger spindle than the Tioga Revolver, and the clamping surface was different. There were half a dozen other brands with their own versions. Shimano certainly didn't come up with this design, they merely waited for patents to expire before improving decades old technology. Outboard bearings and hollow crankarms are nothing new either. So who is copying who?

What I dislike about Shimano, aside from certain microsoftesque tactics when it comes to competition, is how they intentionally alter their products to make them incompatible with less expensive replacement parts.

 

[Yanick]

Originally posted by indieboy
everyone bitches about bending or breaking their brake levers. honestly how many of you actually have, i mean seriously?!?!? just don't tighten the bolt all the way down so if you DO hit anything your entire shifter will just rotate a bit.

ME !! broke the entire casing, not the lever. BAD BAD