[IronhorseCT]

Although I agree that new shocks help make single pivots acceptable in terms of pedaling performance, all the platform damping in the world won't do much to minimize feedback. You hit a bump, your suspension compresses, you get chain growth, and if it's a lot, you'll feel it in the pedals. Sure, you can minimize the amount of that compression but pivot location still makes a big difference. Did you mean to say something else?

I was refrenceing pedal induced bob...sorry, wrong term. Thinking of the old days of riding the Super 8's and stuff and bobbing your way down the trail.

I'll lay off the techie speak now

 

[dcamp29]

ha! someone finally did what i had abandonned in my bike design a long time ago. It's simply an idler freely mounted to an arm that pivots about the main pivot. The position of that idler is maintained by the chain tension, allowing the idler to move in a position that reduces chain 'lengthening'. It was actually one of my original premises for the design (and some projects), but never got tested tho. Never published this pic before either, taken april 2003 just after first assembly, the front end didnt get built until later in the year. Parts werent even anodized yet....

zedro- did you make that yourself? It's .... Beautiful. Seriously, thats pretty sweet.

 

[wingman24]

get the morewood, I've ridden them both, and the ride is very similar, but the 224 costs more, so why pay more money for a bike that isn't any better. and isn't as depedable. the through axle pivot design is what would sell me. the 224 is one of the loudest, sqeaky bikes I've tryed, and the morewood is like a panther, Quite.

 

[E.T.]

My vote is for the Morewood. Those guys build a sweet bike and they went out of there way to support I think 5 top Junior Semi-pro and Pro racers throughout the Norba Nats. Heck, they even helped me out when I was in a bind (and I ride for Specialized!). They are good people and sell a quality product. They are at the races, supporting their riders, and putting there money back into the sport. Plus you can get the DH bike with zebra stripes...

 

[Transcend]

and isn't as depedable. the through axle pivot design is what would sell me. the 224 is one of the loudest, sqeaky bikes I've tryed

From these 3 statements, you clearly have no clue as to what you are talking about.

-The orange is one of the most dependable bikes on the market.
-The welded through axle on the 224 is the stiffest/most reliable way to do a single pivot.
-properly maintained, it's dead silent.

Does this mean the morewood isn't good? No. It simply means you have never ridden a 224 and are talking out of your ass.

 

[tomvan72]

There will be a few Morewood guys and gals out west in Feb. Check out the Fontana race on Feb12th or so and then Bootleg Canyon the 18th and 19th. The week between they will be hanging out somewhere in btween rding hopefully! If you want to test one out hook up with them.

 

[zedro]

-The welded through axle on the 224 is the stiffest/most reliable way to do a single pivot.

i doubt that highly (i can think of a few better systems), but it would certainly be one of the cheaper ways of going about it.

 

[Transcend]

i doubt that highly (i can think of a few better systems), but it would certainly be one of the cheaper ways of going about it.

Compare it to the slip in through axle system on any other single pivot out there. It is MUCH stiffer. End of story.

 

[Sherpa]

There will be a few Morewood guys and gals out west in Feb. Check out the Fontana race on Feb12th or so and then Bootleg Canyon the 18th and 19th. The week between they will be hanging out somewhere in btween rding hopefully! If you want to test one out hook up with them.

I'd love to ride one. Do you know that the wheelbase is on the small vs. large and what size you would suggest for someone whos 5'11". I'm on a medium V10 right now and it fit's me perfectly.

 

[tomvan72]

I'd love to ride one. Do you know that the wheelbase is on the small vs. large and what size you would suggest for someone whos 5'11". I'm on a medium V10 right now and it fit's me perfectly.

At 5'11" you will be in the middle of the 2 sizes. I am 6'2" and ride the large. I too used to ride a medium turner and specialized. Geritt B is 5'11" and he rides a special built small. A test ride will be the best thing. the wheel base is roughly 46" on the large. It is some what adjustable and it will also depend on your fork choice. The small wheelbase I have not measured. I can chek for you later.

 

[Sherpa]

At 5'11" you will be in the middle of the 2 sizes. I am 6'2" and ride the large. I too used to ride a medium turner and specialized. Geritt B is 5'11" and he rides a special built small. A test ride will be the best thing. the wheel base is roughly 46" on the large. It is some what adjustable and it will also depend on your fork choice. The small wheelbase I have not measured. I can chek for you later.

Good man. Do you guys have both sizes in stock right now and what about getting with a DHX?

 

[tomvan72]

there are just a few of each left. The shocks are on order. Should be in stock in a week or so. give me a PM and I can give you my email address

 

[Jm_]

-The welded through axle on the 224 is the stiffest/most reliable way to do a single pivot.

lol..

If you want to look at the "stiffest" way to do a single pivot, look at foes. Way different than orange.

Foes uses a lower pivot, so the chainstay and seatstay members are shorter. They use a triangulated rear end usually. Asym work around the BB to allow a shorter BB and stiffer junctions. Swinglink to increase the rigidity and overcome the biggest problem with monopivot bikes, the fact that sideways deflections cause the swingarm to flex back and forth and load the shock. A thru-axle wouldn't solve this at all, in fact it could make it worse. The swing link is the only way to combat this. The rear end of the bike acts like a big lever sideways. No matter how big orange makes the pivot or swingarm, it will never be as stiff as when you add a simple swing link.

Neither the orange or the morewood are the "stiffest" way to do a single pivot. They are simple ways to do single pivots though. Love that pedal feedback.

 

[zedro]

Compare it to the slip in through axle system on any other single pivot out there. It is MUCH stiffer. End of story.

uhh, no. A heavy press fit axle is just as stiff as a welded one if theres no seperation of the axle and sleave under load (like single crown forks). Now replace that aluminum axle with a properly toleranced steel or Ti one and already you have a stiffer setup.

Outboard (swingarm mounted) bearing setups also rely on the individual bearing to transmit torque on each side, whereas an inboard setup uses bearings in tandem and the swingarm can solidly be bolter to the axle. Analogous to this is the inboard swingarm like the Turner DHR or ElCuervo; these systems are mechanically more efficient because the bearings arent isolated. This is why cranksets have the bearing mounted between the frame and axle and not between the axle and crankarm.

Welding is an easy way to get press-fit stiffness without the bother of tolerancing. Only thing is you're limited to using the frame material instead of hardened axles, and welding creates another fatigue point because of the HAZ. I know Oranges marketing stance says welded = stiffest, but just cause theres a patent on it doesnt mean there arent better ways.

 

[biker3]

uhh, no. A heavy press fit axle is just as stiff as a welded one if theres no seperation of the axle and sleave under load (like single crown forks). Now replace that aluminum axle with a properly toleranced steel or Ti one and already you have a stiffer setup.

Outboard (swingarm mounted) bearing setups also rely on the individual bearing to transmit torque on each side, whereas an inboard setup uses bearings in tandem and the swingarm can solidly be bolter to the axle. Analogous to this is the inboard swingarm like the Turner DHR or ElCuervo; these systems are mechanically more efficient because the bearings arent isolated. This is why cranksets have the bearing mounted between the frame and axle and not between the axle and crankarm.

Welding is an easy way to get press-fit stiffness without the bother of tolerancing. Only thing is you're limited to using the frame material instead of hardened axles, and welding creates another fatigue point because of the HAZ. I know Oranges marketing stance says welded = stiffest, but just cause theres a patent on it doesnt mean there arent better ways.

Well this is all true, unless of course you and your team are sponsered by Orange.

 

[Transcend]

Well this is all true, unless of course you and your team are sponsered by Orange.

or you know, have actually ridden the bike.

 

[biker3]

or you know, have actually ridden the bike.

Well I've ridden my Gemini DH and I can honestly say it IS the stiffest bike in the world, bar none.

 

[zedro]

Well I've ridden my Gemini DH and I can honestly say it IS the stiffest bike in the world, bar none.

which proves that anyone and everyones bike is the stiffest at any given moment

well exept mine but anyways.....

 

[al-irl]

I have a Morewood Prime 8. The Predecessor to the Izumu. Its great its almost bombproof. The Orange is also a great bike but defenitly built with making it as light as possible in mind. I think it suits a rider who has some sort of deal from Orange than someone who buys one from a shop. The 223s are well known for going through swingarms at a fare rate. They tend to fail along the weld where the swingarm flares out for the 150mm rear hub. Ive seen this happen on 2 occasions and its led to nasty crashes. I also know of other people i ride with and race against break swingarms repeatedly. The 222 also suffered from cracking along the welds where the shock mounts to the front end. Ive seen this on quite a few oranges. From what ive seen of the 224 on the quick ride i had of one, its basicly a lighter version of the 222/223 with a few geometry tweaks. For me making it lighter is fine if you can keep the strength, but the Oranges are far from bombproof at the best of times. The Moorewood is a little bit heavier but i reckon stronger. There also great to deal with but so are Orange having previously owned a MR O which the swingarm broke on. They where cool enough to deal with when i contacted them.

What i would consider is this. Do you want the lightest bike or the one that will give you the least trouble. Also the extra cash for the Orange could be put towards a riding holiday or just lots of beer.

Personally I would take the Morewood. I ride/race in Ireland and work in the bike trade here. Orange 222/223s are the most common DH bikes here they out number everything else by about 4 to 1. So I have a fair bit of experience and know what im talking about.

Also as far as the noise thing goes, Oranges sound like bags of hammers going down the trail thanks to the stones banging off the hollow front end. Nothing you can do about it. Theres loads of other bikes that suffer from this fate. Its not a majorly bad thing just a little bit of a head wreck.

Thats enough of my ranting. What ever bike you get ride it like you stole it and enjoy it.

 

[Jm_]

Well I've ridden my Gemini DH and I can honestly say it IS the stiffest bike in the world, bar none.

That only applies though if the world consists of only your gemini.

 

[S.G.D]

ok i didn't read the thread, but i just wanted to give my opinion of the 224, since i rode one at the end of last year.

it's amazing. and im not just saying that to make fraser happy. it truely is an amazing piece of work. the 223, my first bike from orange was great, but it had it's draw backs. it didn't pedal terribly great, and it was nearly impossible to manual, and only now do i realize how nice a racked out head angle is.

the 224 is all the 223 was, but better and with the addtional ability to pedal and manual with the best of them. i didn't find the length the monster to be a draw back, it found it's way through the tightest of swtich backs. one of the best parts about the 224 is not just the stellar performance, but the weight of the thing! i havn't officially weighed my bike, but its easily and i mean very easily sub 39 lbs with DH tubes. everyone at the race i attended with it was blown away, and they aren't riding scrapers.

the racked out head angle (which is now even more adjustable than the 223) is amazing. it felt a bit foreign at first, but after sending some gnarly lines it's way, i love it.

it's a great bike, and i cant wait to get back on it. it's so much ****ing fun!

just noticed some people questioning the stifness of this bike. there should be no questuon about this...you're not going to be flexing this thing unless maybe you happen to be chris kovarik.

 

[Laaz]

Well, would Orange hold me for 2-3 racing seasons?

 

[S.G.D]

Well, would Orange hold me for 2-3 racing seasons?

hold you, like not break?

i used my gray one for 2 season and aside from a creaky pivot when it was dusty, it was flawless.

 

[Laaz]

hold you, like not break?

Exactly!