Outbound DH evo lights ?? Or ?

englertracing · Oct 22, 2023

Magicshine mountaineer 8000

canadmos · Oct 22, 2023

I use Magicshine rn3000 on my helmet and an older Cygolite 1300 something something on the bars.

The combo works well.

I think the key thing is to not have anyone with brighter lights behind you. Of course having bright lights yourself is important, but less so when not competing with your own shadow.

Gary · Oct 22, 2023

I really wanted the outbound hangover helmet light a couple of years back but shipping to the UK was crazy expensive.
I have a Magicshine Monteer 3500 which is a far more powerful and slightly lighter unit but to be used helmet mounted needs you to work out an acceptible solution for carrying the battery pack on your body and running the lead from your helmet.
I don't really night ride off road anymore. but if I did I'd def be tempted by Magicshine's new RAY 2600B as a helmet mounted light. It's a good bit heavier than the outbound helmet light at 190g but also a LOT brighter and has almost twice the battery capacity. but what makes it even more appealing as a helmet light is the bluetooth (bar) remote and customisable modes via the App.
It uses Magicshine's current garmin style quarter turn mounts and their helmet mount is reasuringly secure and nicely adjustable. They also do a quarter turn to Gopro adapter if that's your preferred mounting. (but I'd imagine that might add height which wouldn't be the best mounted to a helmet)

Gary · Oct 22, 2023

bullcrew said:
I remember when magicshine came out they had alot of issues back then and used at best B stock emitters ...that was A LONG time back and seems they anchored themselves in with some solid lights

They still have their issues with some new tech. I have their commuter rear cam/light and it has all sorts of quirks, a fucking terrible rubber mount (the cam to bounces all over the place) and a completely laughable App.
I sorted the mount issue by adding an extra lower mount but god forbid anyone ever has to retrieve footage if I'm killed on the road.

HardtailHack · Oct 22, 2023

Are you going DH lid? NR have a chin bar type mount and have some lights on special at the moment.
I have their 4000 Lumen bar mounted version but the plastic bracket flexes a bit on rougher trails which is pretty shit for how much they cost, helmet mount looks more sturdy.

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canadmos · Oct 22, 2023

bullcrew said:
Wife and I did a sunrise ride this morning, started about an hour before sun came out ..so trying some janky little headlights was a total blast and no depth or shadows , it was all chaos in front..was a good time for sure and at speed..wife didn't think som

Baja designs backed me for some predator night dh races marzocchi put on...lol I had 3 Stryker pros going, I think I blinded and sun tanned all the spectators ..
Plus they doubled as my dive lights, did a lot of night dives and spear fishing with them...but they are no more...

@canadmos I remember when magicshine came out they had alot of issues back then and used at best B stock emitters ...that was A LONG time back and seems they anchored themselves in with some solid lights

The Magicshine light I have has been solid, through sub zero temps, rain etc.

It's also "modern", in that there is no external battery pack and charges pretty quickly with its usb-c connection. It also has a quadlock mount, so there are lots of options.

It's kinda heavy with the battery, but even with it on full blast it lasts quite a while out on the trail.

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Andeh · Oct 22, 2023

Outbound is a lot better than Magicshine. The Chinese lights are just lots of lumens without any thought to beam pattern / dispersal / etc. Having a combination head / bar light both with a good, smooth dispersal is better than just a gazillion lumens. I used to run a 2,000 L&M bar light and 1,000 L&M headlight, which was an improvement over a 1,500 Magicshine bar light & 1,000 L&M, but the Outbound is a lot nicer. The light is more even, and the shape is a good, useful sized oval so that you get peripheral vision but enough illumination. Also key is the low profile and light weight of the Hangover, which makes it feel practically unnoticeable on the top of your helmet. The L&M light I had made me feel like a Teletubbie and would clip overhaning branches. To go to another extreme, a buddy tried some ridiculous Chinese 5k lumen bar light and some other helmet light, and while it was bright enough to give you sunburn, the beam pattern of the OL setup was so much better than he switched to it also.

FYI, they've got a newer, brighter helmet light coming out soon, but it's not available to order yet.

Also, I find that usually the first couple night rides each year I have to go a lot slower, maybe 80% of my typical pace, then I get used to night riding again and can run closer to normal speed.

Jm_ · Oct 22, 2023

Gary said:
I really wanted the outbound hangover helmet light a couple of years back but shipping to the UK was crazy expensive.
I have a Magicshine Monteer 3500 which is a far more powerful and slightly lighter unit but to be used helmet mounted needs you to work out an acceptible solution for carrying the battery pack on your body and running the lead from your helmet.
I don't really night ride off road anymore. but if I did I'd def be tempted by Magicshine's new RAY 2600B as a helmet mounted light. It's a good bit heavier than the outbound helmet light at 190g but also a LOT brighter and has almost twice the battery capacity. but what makes it even more appealing as a helmet light is the bluetooth (bar) remote and customisable modes via the App.
It uses Magicshine's current garmin style quarter turn mounts and their helmet mount is reasuringly secure and nicely adjustable. They also do a quarter turn to Gopro adapter if that's your preferred mounting. (but I'd imagine that might add height which wouldn't be the best mounted to a helmet)

This is always the catch 22, if you want one light to be powerful, it's the helmet light, it's also nice to have a little more of a spot than a flood, although not narrow spot. But if you are putting a self-contained light up there, you are severely limited in lumens and run time (comparatively) and you don't want your bar light being brighter. The other aspect is a remote. Once you use a remote, you see it's just as useful as a dropper, allowing you to turn way down for climbs and then turn it way up as the speed/downhill increases. I'm tempted by the outbound stuff...but I can buy a lot of self-contained lights that work pretty good and it's not like the outbound is going to solve any of these inherent issues.

My glowworm is excellent. Excellent wireless remote. Something like 3500 lumens and many light modes. I think it's my programmable one too, allowing you to program your 3 modes (like how bright is, low, medium and high) and when you hold the off button (on the remote or the light) it goes into a 500 lumen climb mode.

Jm_ · Oct 22, 2023

bullcrew said:
I looked at glowworm lights as well...they had good reviews plus BTI carries them...

At this point, I'm probably going to buy another to compliment my current one.

My cygolite stuff has also been real good, as in reliable. Light N Motion, nope, the little USB connector pushes in and the circuit board gets fucked. Blackburn has also been good to me for self-contained.

HardtailHack · Oct 23, 2023

Andeh said:
Outbound is a lot better than Magicshine. The Chinese lights are just lots of lumens without any thought to beam pattern / dispersal / etc. Having a combination head / bar light both with a good, smooth dispersal is better than just a gazillion lumens. I used to run a 2,000 L&M bar light and 1,000 L&M headlight, which was an improvement over a 1,500 Magicshine bar light & 1,000 L&M, but the Outbound is a lot nicer. The light is more even, and the shape is a good, useful sized oval so that you get peripheral vision but enough illumination. Also key is the low profile and light weight of the Hangover, which makes it feel practically unnoticeable on the top of your helmet. The L&M light I had made me feel like a Teletubbie and would clip overhaning branches. To go to another extreme, a buddy tried some ridiculous Chinese 5k lumen bar light and some other helmet light, and while it was bright enough to give you sunburn, the beam pattern of the OL setup was so much better than he switched to it also.

FYI, they've got a newer, brighter helmet light coming out soon, but it's not available to order yet.

Also, I find that usually the first couple night rides each year I have to go a lot slower, maybe 80% of my typical pace, then I get used to night riding again and can run closer to normal speed.

The OL beam patterns were awesome but the charge port covers snapped off and the bar mount was an absolute turd sandwich.
I wish somebody still did drink bottle/pump mounts like the old Blackburn lights, they were awesome.

mykel · Oct 23, 2023

I have a pair of gloworms.
Have had for a few years, they were the entry level 1200 lumen Alphas with warm white bulbs.
They are the same apparent brightness as a buddy's Magicshine 2000 but a much more natural colour. Wide lens on the bars, spot lens on the helmet.

Would bang again.

HardtailHack · Oct 23, 2023

But Bullcrew seems to have a thing for American Manufacturing, Looks like Outbound, Cygo and NR have some American manufacturing or at least assembly going on.
Don't need to be giving money to NZ now do we? Hahaha!

HardtailHack · Oct 23, 2023

bullcrew said:
Lol no..just kept coming up thread after thread and when I. Checked reviews it kept getting great marks..
Last minute.just bought them and then realized I should probably get some feedback on here as a lot of us are downhillers and like to push the edge a bit..
After damn near 20 years with you guys I'd be an asshole to not ask..

A shop a mate worked in a few years back pretty much only sold a version of the MS lights with their shop's branding and Glowworm, don't think they had any issues with the Glow Worms. I bought a set off him but sold them to another mate before using them, seemed well made.

Gary · Oct 23, 2023

Yeah. I had a loaner set of glow worms from the UK distributor. Really liked them.

Gary · Oct 23, 2023

Andeh said:
The Chinese lights are just lots of lumens without any thought to beam pattern / dispersal / etc.

Are you including current Magicshine in that? My old magicshine Eagle F3 had one of the best thought out beam patterns I'd seen at the time and the newer lights also seem fairly well thought out with their monteer ranges spot/flood/hybrid modes and dual lenses on the stand alone lights. The 15 bloody options to find the correct one on my monteer not so much.

William42 · Oct 23, 2023

I have an outbound DH Evo as my main handlebar light and a smaller 1000 lumen light n motion light as my helmet light.

10/10 on the Outbound, would buy again. I have fairly shitty night vision and lights with hotspots kind of throw me off a bit, I want my lights to be both bright and diffuse without heavy bright spots because that fucks me up. Outbound doesn't have that, just a wide throw of even bright as shit light.

I also popped it off the mount to put it in my car after one ride and left it on my bike seat instead, where it proceeded to fall off on a stretch of road I was doing about 40 on and aside from some scratches its no worse for wear a few years later. It's pretty robustly built. It weighs quite a bit if that matters to you.

Also expensive as fuck and I'm still not really sure if I'm a sucker for buying something that expensive when there are far less expensive Chineseum options that I probably could have bought 10 of for the same price.

slyfink · Oct 23, 2023

canadmos said:
The Magicshine light I have has been solid, through sub zero temps, rain etc.

It's also "modern", in that there is no external battery pack and charges pretty quickly with its usb-c connection. It also has a quadlock mount, so there are lots of options.

It's kinda heavy with the battery, but even with it on full blast it lasts quite a while out on the trail.

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RN 3000 is a powerful bicycle light that utilizes two 21700 integrated batteries with 10,000mAh super high capacity. It is equipped with two super bright and power efficient LEDs, with a maximum verified output of 3,000 lumens. Maximum runtime up to 62 hours, best choice for long-distance...

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Is this the one you got last year? How's it do on winter rides? I'm particularly curious about run time with the cold. I have an ITUO self contained unit, and it's all aluminum. It gets too cold in the winter and run time drops right off.

bullcrew said:
I looked at glowworm lights as well...they had good reviews plus BTI carries them...

re Gloworm lights. Action LED carries them. I have no affiliation with him, but I've done business with him a few times, and he's always been great to deal with.

William42 said:
I have an outbound DH Evo as my main handlebar light and a smaller 1000 lumen light n motion light as my helmet light.

10/10 on the Outbound, would buy again. I have fairly shitty night vision and lights with hotspots kind of throw me off a bit, I want my lights to be both bright and diffuse without heavy bright spots because that fucks me up. Outbound doesn't have that, just a wide throw of even bright as shit light.

I also popped it off the mount to put it in my car after one ride and left it on my bike seat instead, where it proceeded to fall off on a stretch of road I was doing about 40 on and aside from some scratches its no worse for wear a few years later. It's pretty robustly built. It weighs quite a bit if that matters to you.

Also expensive as fuck and I'm still not really sure if I'm a sucker for buying something that expensive when there are far less expensive Chineseum options that I probably could have bought 10 of for the same price.

re beam patterns and brightness: my philosophy has always been a bright spot with long throw on the helmet so you can see what's coming up in the distance and at speed. the bar light is there just for contrast and depth perception. A weak flood is sufficient. I also don't want the bar light to be too strong because I find if the light that's closest to my eyes is too strong, my get accustomed to that level of light and it reduces my ability to see what's in the distance.

That's always been my concern with the Outbound lights, I'm worried the flood is too strong or would overpower my helmet light. I'd love to give them a try to see if this is a misguided position, but I don't know anyone that has some, and it's a little too expensive to get some just to test out the theory.

Jm_ · Oct 23, 2023

The self contained price for outbound isn’t outrageous…but those have fallen and you can get 2 quality self contained for the same price, just keep one in a pocket and change out when/if the first dies. That is if you are set on self contained helmet.

canadmos · Oct 23, 2023

slyfink said:
Is this the one you got last year? How's it do on winter rides? I'm particularly curious about run time with the cold. I have an ITUO self contained unit, and it's all aluminum. It gets too cold in the winter and run time drops right off.

Yeah thats the one I got last year or maybe the year before. Our group's night rides in the winter, especially on the fat bike don't generally last too long, so I've never really noticed a difference. It says it has 2 hours of runtime on full power - it definitely runs for at 1.5 hours on full power.

The light itself runs quite warm so I haven't noticed it drop or start warning of low battery mid right during fat biking.

Redwood Mulch Chucker · Oct 23, 2023

I found that the helmet light is the most important to get right. Something small/light/self contained but with a powerful spot is what I found worked best.

This was my go to after 15+ years of weekly night rides. USA made in Norcal bro.

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The bar light just needs to be a nice wide flood with decent distance as well so you can't out ride it.

As the helmet light is usually the one with the least amount of runtime, keep it on low or off for climbing.

Redwood Mulch Chucker · Oct 23, 2023

The Outbound stuff looks pretty good, that is impressive lumens/run time for a self contained handlebar unit. 2200 lumens is about the minimum I think you'd want for the "big" light.

I always ran a separate battery for the handlebar light, so you could count on it for mega runtime for those lost in the woods or someone gets a mechanical adventures. We have had a few rides that started at 8-9pm and ended at 1 am or later.

Andeh · Oct 23, 2023

I personally don't like the helmet to have a bright spot effect. I find that having hard transitions between light and dark strains my eyes a lot more. That said, I do prefer it to be as bright as possible, but a bit less than the bar mount (so that it doesn't create a moving pattern within the handlebar's beam). The current OL Hangover light works very well, but I'll be picking up a Portal when it releases just for a little bit more oomph (and sell my Hangover to a local bro).

Jm_ · Oct 23, 2023

Redwood Mulch Chucker said:
I found that the helmet light is the most important to get right. Something small/light/self contained but with a powerful spot is what I found worked best.

This was my go to after 15+ years of weekly night rides. USA made in Norcal bro.

VIS Pro 1000 Trail Headlight

Looking for the perfect light for your night rides? Look no further than the VIS Pro 1000 Trail Headlight from Light & Motion. With impressive power and reliable construction, this ultra-compact light is the choice for ultra-endurance gravel cyclists and bikepackers who demand the best.

lightandmotion.com

The bar light just needs to be a nice wide flood with decent distance as well so you can't out ride it.

As the helmet light is usually the one with the least amount of runtime, keep it on low or off for climbing.

Also, the light n motion stuff auto dims in the cold after like 20min IME. Im never buying another.

Jm_ · Oct 23, 2023

bullcrew said:
So if I'm getting this so far , this is what seems to be what's warranted for fast nasty descents.

So for bar mount:
Wide peripheral throw and down trail, not too nasty bright of a spot but a damn good flood light!

Helmet mount:
Bright spot down field with medium throw...

So how about lumens??

Now I'm concerned that it'll be outgunned, I don't mind a cable battery set up, on bars I'm cool with that..on helmet I was never totally sold I had it in a pack..kind of bugged me

What are you doing, emergency lights for misjudging sunset or commuting or for getting full rowdy on DH trails?

if the latter, 1000 lumens at the bar AND the helmet is pretty weak. Being able to turn up the helmet for about 2000 is much better, as you look in the direction of corners/the trail that is not straight ahead. 500-1000 will work “ok” tooling along in the snow at slow speed due to all the reflection of the snow, but even there start to go fast DH and the same applies, it’s again like a dropper, you can get much more aggro saferer with more lumens at night.

Gary · Oct 23, 2023

I think that's why many lights have switchable power modes and beam patterns. :drag:

So long as you're cool with carrying the weight, Too much light and battery capacity has gotta be better than not enough.

mykel · Oct 23, 2023

bullcrew said:
So if I'm getting this so far , this is what seems to be what's warranted for fast nasty descents.

So for bar mount:
Wide peripheral throw and down trail, not too nasty bright of a spot but a damn good flood light!

Helmet mount:
Bright spot down field with medium throw...

So how about lumens??

Now I'm concerned that it'll be outgunned, I don't mind a cable battery set up, on bars I'm cool with that..on helmet I was never totally sold I had it in a pack..kind of bugged me

That combo is what I use.

My 1200 on both bar and helmet are fine at flat / rolling terrain trail speeds. For any fast chunky dh sections they are not enough for full send, cruise only. If I was trying to ride dh / park at night, I would want all the light. I don't think I would look at anything under 2.5-3k real lumens on each.

FlipFantasia · Oct 23, 2023

I've got the hangover and the previous handlebar light with the external battery and they're great. they turned night riding into actually enjoyable almost just due to the beam pattern, and the run times are great too. They're so much easier on my eyes than the spot beam that seems so prevalent on many "high lumen" ones which always feel like my eyes are trying to catch up to the beam or track it, the pattern on the Outbound's lights up the peripheral areas so well and just makes it a lot easier to ride more normally imo. Would totally consider upgrading to the self contained EVO and new hangover. the hangover on my gopro headstrap is great too for dark winter dog walks on the golf course across the street too.

canadmos · Oct 23, 2023

If all else fails, there is an easy solution to the light debate. Just get to know your trails better and ride by braille.

Just pray to jeebus that no new trees fall. :busted:

Jm_ · Oct 23, 2023

Its surreal fun to turn off all the lights on some wide open stretches in winter on the snow. Then I turn on my laser.

Gary · Oct 23, 2023

Surreal? Try an HID dieing on you on a rocky descent just as you drop into a section with multiple drops... those were the days.

but yeah. full moon night riding with no lights is ace. and even better in snow

Outbound DH evo lights ?? Or ?

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