[zmtber]

I know companies like specialized have caused some problems with Scott and their genius bike etc. (Not sure about stratos any article clarifying this please send me a link).

These problems affect other start-ups or other bike companies and consumers, and I am writing a paper for my econ class about Marginal benefit and marginal cost of patents in the biking industry (including opportunity cost). I was hoping, with the knowledge of the industry here, you monkeys can post up past example of patents affecting the industry. (personal or not, small or big parts)

Thank you anything you post will be of a big help.

 

[ZHendo]

well, giant has had to do some slight redesign of the shock cradle on their maestro-equipped bikes because of some patent infringement issues, not sure who the issue was with though. specialized has done a whole bunch of stuff, so use google and see what comes up.

 

[zmtber]

yeah did thanks, Im just looking for anything else you guys have knowledge of

 

[zmtber]

bump!

 

[Cave Dweller]

As much as they suck they are required to push forward with innovation and research.

Why would any company want to develop something then have someone else rip it off.

My beef with patents are they are expensive ($100k US) which drives up prices. My other beef is companies using the fact they have a patent as a marketing tool, they need to put it into perspective, people have patented toilet seat warmers and penis enlargers, it doesn't mean anything.. It doesn't mean it is any good or even does what the claims say.

 

[Vang_9tuzz]

Turner stopped using horst-link(specialized) but still maintain same top performance bikes. Do not know if somthing industrial is written about it, but a review of the flux is in MBA february 06.

 

[zmtber]

Thank you cave dweller comments like that are helpful, please anyone else who would like to state opinion/ facts on how they feel/stand with patents and their affect in the industry please feel free to post them. Thank you all for the example so far they are helping. (again anything like links to article for proof of claim, I would like to stay away from I heard type of stuff, and finding articles using google is not as effecient as I'd hope.)

thank you

 

[zmtber]

Bump, paper/project is due soon want to get it done with ASAP thanks.

 

[ridefast]

ya know in the amount of time you have been bumping this thread, you could have called companies, sent emails, done research on your own

not saying that you shouldnt ask for help/opinions on here, just keep in mind that you are the one that has to write the paper, not an online forum

 

[zmtber]

yes I know and I have been thanks, but opinions matter esspecialy from the consumer of products.

 

[greenblinker104]

devinci is a good example - they really cant even promote their bikes in the US b/c of specialized's patent on the horst link which devinci uses for their bikes

 

[no skid marks]

Turner stopped using horst-link(specialized) but still maintain same top performance bikes. Do not know if somthing industrial is written about it, but a review of the flux is in MBA february 06.

Apparently still maintain top performance.
I doubt it very much,Faux bars should be outlawed for being the marketing crap they are. Only arguably better than any other ****ty low pivot bike.I wonder if Turner tried to sue for the Enduro clonning them.
Well they milked it for all it was worth and never really made a good version themselves accept for the latest versions(Enduro),but the parties over now that all the VPP style stuff is out,working and marketed.
Do US Patents expire? Or do you just renew them?

 

[thom9719]

I don't know what you can find on it, but Cane Creek just pulled the patent for their headsets from FSA. You might be able to find something about it.

Kyle,

 

[azonicbruce]

My personal opinion. Patents and/or lawyers are expensive and tend to scare small people away from pursuing their ideas and bringing them to market.

Case in point. Gravity Dropper and Maverick SpeedBall. My version, "Office Chair", never saw the light of day because:
a) I underestimated the market; people poo-pooed the idea when I first brought up the idea in 2002. Never got past the prototype stage.
b)Pursuing a patent for the idea was going to cost way more than I had, and more than I wanted to invest. Plus at the time I was under the impression that Hurricane Components was already pursuing a patent for the idea
c)Once Gravity Dropper and SpeedBall started to come out, I had many people tell me to look into fighting it. Yeah right, I don't have enough money or time to deal with all the litigation. Only to have some company in China come out years later with a knock-off and makes all that time and money spent fighting worthless.

 

[zmtber]

tahnk you guys loads of help, I will look into the FSA thing that is recent right?

 

[3D.]

More like 20 grand over 20 years. You have to pay periodic maintenance fees to the USPTO.

Patents last for 20 years... they used to be issued for only 17 years.

Patents are absolutely a good idea. If you you have a worthy invention, especially one that has taken years to develop, there needs to be protection in place so someone doesn't just swipe your intellectual property from you. If it is an invention that will realize serious profits, you'll pay for the protection. If the invention is not worthy, it really doesn't matter and you give it to the world for free.

 

[OGRipper]

If it is an invention that will realize serious profits, you'll pay for the protection.

Easy to say, but there are a lot of innovative people out there who simply don't have the cash and don't want (or are not able) to borrow what they need or take on investors/partners. Those folks can get stuck in a Catch 22: Do they bring unprotected product to market in order to raise cash to get the protection they need, risking disclosure and consumer/media buzz that attracts copycats?

 

[SK6]

I don't have it with me currently, BUT, I do know of numerous sites you can go to that will certainly help you on this specific topic.

You can try these links in the mean time:

http://www.uspto.gov/main/trademarks.htm

http://www.bitlaw.com/patent/

 

[3D.]

Easy to say, but there are a lot of innovative people out there who simply don't have the cash and don't want (or are not able) to borrow what they need or take on investors/partners. Those folks can get stuck in a Catch 22: Do they bring unprotected product to market in order to raise cash to get the protection they need, risking disclosure and consumer/media buzz that attracts copycats?

Fair enough, but the way the program works for the USA (USPTO)--US Patent & Trademark Office-- is not what you think.

Have you had an idea that you were seeking protection on?

You most likely were thinking it was extremely difficult or horribly expensive to obtain a Patent?

You do not have to come up with the $20,000'ish investment up front. It literally costs a few hundred to get into patent pending, as long as you do the application and paper work yourself. The application is very involved and you'll have to do a lot of research, but the USPTO makes the process rather user friendly and they're always there to assist you during regular business hours.


If you're curious got to: http://www.uspto.gov/

Search the data banks and you can find all the Shimano & Honda stuff.

All the info you guys are looking for is on that site. Might take hours or possibly days, or even months to finish your research there... but it's all there. You don't need a lawyer. Just a lot of time.

editI almost forgot to mention that you pay as you go with small installments over 20 years. That is what I was saying about either having a worthy product or not... if it's worthy you pay the yearly installments as you go, if it's not worthy, you stop paying the fees and let it go. It's really simple.

If it's good you'll pay for the protection, but not all at once.

edit:I have a pending item and have spent waaaay tooo mauch time at that site

 

[SK6]

For more legal information on Patent law, a great place to search would be www.findlaw.com. Or simply Google patent law. The main site is http://www.uspto.gov/ ; however, make sure you understand the full ramifications involved. Seeking legal advice is a good thing ifthe item in question stands to make some money.

Of course all of that is relative!

I took Patent & Copyright law.....I just haven't dug out my book yet...but it also lists a few site that will offer assistance. Bottom line is thorough research, and detailed documentation.

 

[OGRipper]

It needs to be done right from the start - the application is critical to minimizing problems with getting the patent as well as the strength of the eventual patent. I am all for the DIY approach for many things but anyone seeking patent protection for a potentially valuable invention should get some advice from an experienced person, whether it's a patent attorney, an inventor who has been through the process, etc. Otherwise, you can miss an important step or protective claim and leave a huge loophole despite spending the time and money. YMMV, of course.

 

[SK6]

Yeah, I have to strongly agree...sadly there are less than honest people in the world waiting to screw you...especially big business...The key is to be methodical. If you can't afford an attorney, there are paralegal services that can fill out the paper work based on your information. They can make sure ALL the information required by the forms are filled in.

While they can't give legal advice (set fees or represent in courts), they can be invaluable for stuff like this.

 

[3D.]

I hear you guys and understand those concerns. I took my full application and paper work to Siera Patent Group for an inexpensive legal review and redline. It did help a little in the wording of the claims section (important), but it really comes down to you explaining how your gadget works and how it is truly novel. Beyond that, figuring out how to mechanically design your item so that it will be very hard if not impossible to modify for crooks legal bypass, will be all on you as well.

It may be very difficult for a Patent Attorney to help you on those points, but if you have the coin hire one.

 

[zmtber]

thank you guys it helped a lot, I gave my presentation today and got the A, thanks.