[tadrscin]

I've seen some really great photos from some of you guys and was wondering if you could give me some tips. I'm using a Canon G2 with an external flash (Canon EX 380) with a small soft box on it but I can't freeze the action well enough or get a really good exposure so I'm wondering what you guys are using and doing? I've seen some really good pictures with non-SLR digital cameras so I know I should be able to get better pics than what I'm getting now. These were taken at the flow park so I know lighting is an issue. In the first pic I think my biggest problem was that I wasn't close enough for the flash to be effective. As far as focusing goes, I pre-focus on the spot where I want the rider to be when I take the picture. Timing is also an issue since there is that dreaded delay from when I press the shutter to when it takes the picture.

 

[Netguy]

On the first shot, it could be a combination of too slow of a shutter, combined with an out of focus shot. To me it seems as if everything between the subject and you (leaves..etc) seem to be in better focus. However that could be just because the leaves are not moving. So its tough to say.

On the second, my guess is out of focus, caused by shutter delay. Since the subject is moving towards you, you have to be very precise. Depending on how much zoom you are using, half a foot of distance that the rider travels towards you, could prove the difference between in and out of focus.

You mentioned you pre-focused right? I think the shuttler delay killed you here...or perhaps you were too early on the release. The leaves in the forground, appear to be in focus.

For starters, try to shoot zoomed all the way out (wide). This will achieve a greater depth of field, which results in the subject most likely being in focus...then just crop, to get your desired look.
Also, when the subject is moving from one side of the frame to the other, make sure you pan with the subject, and then release the shutter at your pre-focused spot.
Finally, in relation to shutter speed, try to keep it at 1/250th with the flash.

Hope this helps.

 

[Garrett 0 P]

all i know is avoid shooting into the sun. and try to follow the person best you can. its hard to get a clear photo without an amazing camera when there hauling past the camera while the camera stays in one spot....

i dunno if thats true, thats just personal experience. the guy above me knows what hes talking about

 

[RhinofromWA]

Finally, in relation to shutter speed, try to keep it at 1/250th with the flash.

Hope this helps.

Man my old Minolta 35mm SLR would only shoot 1/60 and 1/90 with the flash......lol always pissed me off.

 

[tadrscin]

Panning is one thing I want to start trying. Unfortunately in these two examples it would be hard to do since the rider only comes into view at the last second. Basically I had to press the shutter as soon as I see the rider because of the delay. No matter what I do, timing is always going to be an issue with this camera. That's a good point about zooming out for more depth of field. I was trying to fill the screen which really isn't necessary since I'm shooting at the highest resolution anyway so the final cropped pic could still be fairly large. I also think I should take the soft box off of the flash so it's more effective. That brings up another question though and that is how much flash is too much in terms of bothering the rider? They wouldn't be looking directly into it, but I don't want them to be distracted by it when they're trying to land a jump/drop.

My camera does sync at 1/60th when using a flash, but I think I can overide that. It has a ton of exposure compensation features so I definitely need to break out the manual again.

 

[thesacrifice]

G2 is oooold.

If you hold the button down halfway it prefocuses right? and then you just need to finish the press to activate the shutter.

It might be too dark for that cameras technology even with the flash. From your pictures I can see that the shutter speed was too slow, making up for the light. The G2 has the ability to make shutter speed a priority right? Try setting it for a fast shutter speed and going from there.

 

[tadrscin]

I know the G2 is a bit behind the current technology, but it's what I have to work with for now. Yes I have to hold the shutter halfway to lock the exposure and focus. There are actually ways of doing each one separately as well. It does have a shutter preferred mode, but I'm not sure how that will work with the flash. I am going to try it without the softbox on the flash to see how much better that is. I'll be giving these tips a try Saturday and will report back on how they work. Maybe some day I'll get a digital SLR.

 

[Transcend]

The only way to do this effectively is to pan or to run the flash in high speed mode.

Push the iso up, run a higher shutter speed (1/320 is good for DH). Also, ditch the soft box you don't need it and you are losing a full stop in power.

1/60th of a second. Off camera flash (x3). 100 iso and a whole lot of pan. You could get the same style of shot with the on camera flash you have and a good pan (even with the delay).

 

[tadrscin]

Well I've been playing with the camera at home and in shutter preffered mode it syncs to the flash at 1/250 and f8 so that should be a lot better. I've already taken the soft box off so we'll see how that works tomorrow. Unfortunately some of the pics I want to take won't allow me to pan as the rider doesn't come into view until right before I have to press the shutter. I don't think my flash has a high speed mode. I don't have the manual and Canon doesn't have one I can download. I'd have to buy another one. The only thing on it that I don't know what it does is a switch that has a green dot at one position and a flash symbol with the letter "H" next to it. I'm guessing that one setting is for using the flash on the camera and one is for off the camera. It doesn't seem to make any difference which setting I use as far as I can tell. This camera works great in the daylight, it's just the low light situations that I'm having problems with. I'm curious how you're focusing with the EOS 1D. Are you prefocusing and then panning and taking the pic when the rider reaches that point, or are you able to continuously focus the camera while panning with the rider? Sweet pic by the way.

 

[Netguy]

I'm curious how you're focusing with the EOS 1D. Are you prefocusing and then panning and taking the pic when the rider reaches that point, or are you able to continuously focus the camera while panning with the rider? QUOTE]


The Canon EOS1D is professional DSLR body that Canon makes. On most Canon DLSR's there is a mode called AI Servo. Basically in this mode, you can half press the shutter button, and the camera will continually track a moving subject. Then when the subject is at its desired location, fully press the shutter the rest of the way and take the picture. The nice thing about Canon's 1 series cameras including the EOS-1D, is that they have a seperate processor in the camera just for focusing duties. Also, there is no shutter lag on 1 series cameras. So if a shots out of focus, its operator error. You can pick up a used 1D these days for about $1000 (body only). A 1D will destroy any consumer or prosumer digicam (Non DSLR) for sports use.

 

[66]

tadrscin- of course your shutter is quite slow as already mentioned unless you are using a flash that is hitting your subject. on both of the shots you have up top, you are too far away. get in close the your subject. get within 10 of your subject and see how it works. if you want to be back, turn off the flash and get the light else ware. SST can be rather awful for light. Do you know how to change the ISO on your camera? if so, put it at 400. then put camera in AV (aperture priority) and put the aperture to 2.0. make sure your exposure compensation is at 0 (middle) and then try some shots. you should find enough light to do a fast shutter. maybe more then enough. then start changing the aperture, ISO and exposure comp to learn why you want to change them. i.e. shoot at ISO 400 all day, go home and look at your shots. Then shoot all day at ISO 100 and look at your shots. What do you like better and why? it's all about compromise. ISO 400 will be grainy but you get the exposure. ISO 100 clean but if it's too dark then who cares about the grain.

you need to keep the the shutter fast enough to be able to keep your focus on your subject. getting your focus isn't so easy. learn the different ways your camera can focus and play (practice).

panning with a flash without a servo-type auto focus is only going to happen with lot of luck or just as much setup/work.

go here http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canong2/ and read about some of the features about your camera.

If you want to take a nice photo it's not going to happen by getting a DSLR, it's by learning how to use what you got. ultimately, this is a topic that can't be summed up in one thread in a forum. get a book. there is a lot to learn.

 

[Transcend]

Well I've been playing with the camera at home and in shutter preffered mode it syncs to the flash at 1/250 and f8 so that should be a lot better. I've already taken the soft box off so we'll see how that works tomorrow. Unfortunately some of the pics I want to take won't allow me to pan as the rider doesn't come into view until right before I have to press the shutter. I don't think my flash has a high speed mode. I don't have the manual and Canon doesn't have one I can download. I'd have to buy another one. The only thing on it that I don't know what it does is a switch that has a green dot at one position and a flash symbol with the letter "H" next to it. I'm guessing that one setting is for using the flash on the camera and one is for off the camera. It doesn't seem to make any difference which setting I use as far as I can tell. This camera works great in the daylight, it's just the low light situations that I'm having problems with. I'm curious how you're focusing with the EOS 1D. Are you prefocusing and then panning and taking the pic when the rider reaches that point, or are you able to continuously focus the camera while panning with the rider? Sweet pic by the way.

The 380 does indeed have a high speed mode. I have one as a backup flash. That little H side of the switch is high speed mode. It will allow the camera to sync above 250. Then set shutter priority, dial in 1/320 or 500 even, set ISO needed to get about f 5.6 and go to town.

With the 1d it depends on the situation. With a decent lens (70-200 2.8, 300 2.8) i can put a focus box on the riders head in AI servo mode as he comes into view and hit my focus button (I use *). Then when i trip the shutter it locks the exposure and takes a shot. The 1d is fast enough to continuously focus on a rider coming at you as long as the lens is fast (as mentioned).

Also, thanks about the pic.

 

[Transcend]

The Canon EOS1D is professional DSLR body that Canon makes. On most Canon DLSR's there is a mode called AI Servo. Basically in this mode, you can half press the shutter button, and the camera will continually track a moving subject. Then when the subject is at its desired location, fully press the shutter the rest of the way and take the picture. The nice thing about Canon's 1 series cameras including the EOS-1D, is that they have a seperate processor in the camera just for focusing duties. Also, there is no shutter lag on 1 series cameras. So if a shots out of focus, its operator error. You can pick up a used 1D these days for about $1000 (body only). A 1D will destroy any consumer or prosumer digicam (Non DSLR) for sports use.

Well yes and no. A slow lens or non USM lens will cock up the focusing no matter what. if the cross sensor picks up the wrong bit of contrast, same thing. Focus can still be hit or miss, especially on low contrast subjects.

Also, there is a HUGE difference in focusing abilities between the 1d and 1dmk2. The 1d is still better than a 10d, but not even up to the levels of a 20d. The mk2 will destroy them all, and arguably even the 1dsmk2.

I believe ALL lenses canon makes have an AI servo mode, even the point and shoots. The shot above relied heavily on that mode and the 1dmk2's amazing AF capabilities as it was incredibly fast moving subject, ridiculously low shutter and really bad light (hence all of the flashes).

 

[Transcend]

you need to keep the the shutter fast enough to be able to keep your focus on your subject. getting your focus isn't so easy. learn the different ways your camera can focus and play (practice).

panning with a flash without a servo-type auto focus is only going to happen with lot of luck or just as much setup/work.

go here http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canong2/ and read about some of the features about your camera.

If you want to take a nice photo it's not going to happen by getting a DSLR, it's by learning how to use what you got. ultimately, this is a topic that can't be summed up in one thread in a forum. get a book. there is a lot to learn.

Shutter speed will not affect focus. The focusing logic and the maximum lens aperture will do that. ie: an F1.8 lens will ALWAYS focus faster than an F4 lens, even if the lenses are both set to F8.

Also, a DSLR will help a TON in getting a decent photo due in large part to having absolutely no shutter lag. Knowledge can only go so far when you have outgrown your equipment. A huffy can go down a world cup course as well, but not at world cup speeds...

Rest of that was pretty good info. Read the manual, read up on basic photography, read up on what features your specific camera has that you can leverage. A G2 is a great little camera in the proper hands, but it will limit what you can do at some points.

 

[66]

Shutter speed will not affect focus. The focusing logic and the maximum lens aperture will do that.

i wrote that poorly. i meant, if you want a sharp, in focus subject, a shutter being open too long will make an in focus shot look blurry. in other words, if you get past the focus hurtle and nail it dead on but then shoot a biker with no flash at 1/30th, it's going to look bad.

[/QUOTE]Also, a DSLR will help a TON in getting a decent photo due in large part to having absolutely no shutter lag. Knowledge can only go so far when you have outgrown your equipment. A huffy can go down a world cup course as well, but not at world cup speeds...[/QUOTE]

i totally agree. but i think that getting a nice camera with the hopes of getting great shots it's bad form. and it's only going to happen by accident.

 

[tadrscin]

Well thanks for the tips guys. I managed to only get 2 shots Saturday before the battery died. Arrrgg. Anyway, I got much better results this time as you can see. It looks like perhaps a little too much flash on the first one, but I'll keep practicing.

 

[thesacrifice]

Definitely better, are you routing the flash straight onto the target? I know there's no ceiling to bounce the light off as you would do indoor but the first is a bit washed out on the rider, although those pics are lightyears ahead of the first one. Maybe increase your distance from the rider until you find the perfect blend of distance+flash.

 

[tadrscin]

Yeah I was aiming the flash directly towards the rider. I could try the old white card trick to bounce the flash off of that. I never had good success with that in the old days before TTL flash metering so I didn't think of that until now. But then I was never very good at flash photography. I can also try using the flash exposure compensation to reduce or increase the flash output. I'm thinking maybe a half stop under for the first shot and a half stop over for the second. I just have to remember to change it back. Either that or find a better place to take a meter reading from.