[Joz]

We need your help.
We have a small area within the town (here in Germany) for wich the owners (parents of one of our riders) gave us the permission to build some dirtjumps and a nice pumptrack.

The track was not known except to a small group who built it - us.
Click here to see some pictures.

As for local law reasons you got to have a permission to enter the privat ground and to ride on it. The land owner could still be sued to pay compensation for injuries suffered from riding and crashing on his own land even if there was a fence and signs, saying that access without permission is not allowed.

So it was alright for some time but then some local kids without any riding skills and bikes from the mall found out about the track and startet riding there.
We told them not to ride there without permission and our presence but they dont care. They even share 'riding pics' on their facebook pages.

We dont want them riding there, so we thought about blocking the DJs.

We thought about chains and locks, but it would cost to much.
Next idea was to dig ditches to blog the roll ins. We could cover the ditches with some sheetmetal wich we could lock away.

To make a long story short:
Do you guys know about some ways to keep these guys off the area?

Thank you,
Joz

 

[eaterofdog]

Can't you just call the cops and have them busted for trespassing?

Or kick someones ass.

 

[fortenndu]

Try talking to the kids parents. If they know that their kids are trespassing and could get hurt they'll probably make them stop. If the kids don't stop the parents might not sue you because of the fact that you've talked to them.

 

[Joz]

Can't you just call the cops and have them busted for trespassing?

Or kick someones ass.

Well, first of all they are kids and they havent reached legal age so far.
Second, we are not 100% sure about the DJs. Some laws concerning construction sites and private grounds say, that you got to have a permission for everything larger than 3qm.
So if we called the cops and they are pissed about having to do with kids, they could easily shut the whole place down.

Kicking their asses was in discussion but we're trying to avoid that as long as possible as this could lead into much more vandalism.


Talking to the parents would not work. These kids - we know a few of them - have too much trouble with their parents, school and everything else so I doubt that the parents would have much influence on them.

 

[kidwoo]

We thought about chains and locks, but it would cost to much.

You can afford $1000 dirtjump bikes but can't buy some chains an locks between four of you?


I don't buy it. A couple hundred in chains and locks is nothing to keep a good riding spot.

 

[WestCoastHucker]

if it's truely private property, i'd just hang out with a gun...

 

[Joz]

You can afford $1000 dirtjump bikes but can't buy some chains an locks between four of you?

Good point.
But: There are about 10 riders who have the official permission to ride on these trails. Having the trails locked up with several chains and locks would not be too expensive - I'd guess it would cost about 200€ or $310 - but copying 3 to 4 keys so everybody has access to the spot is just too much work and would definately go wrong.

 

[Joz]

if it's truely private property, i'd just hang out with a gun...

Not a good idea in Germany. Laws are much more strict than in the US and I dont wanna get arrested because of some stupid kids.

 

[Savage_Animal]

Honestly I think if you do anything to the DJs so they can't ride there then they will probly get mad and do more destruction. Maybe you could put up signs saying that its private property, that might keep them away.

 

[Joz]

Honestly I think if you do anything to the DJs so they can't ride there then they will probly get mad and do more destruction. Maybe you could put up signs saying that its private property, that might keep them away.

Thats our biggest concern.

We have put up a fence and blocked the view with large banners but when I visited the trails yesterday, that was, what I found:

Several parts of the fence are bent and some banners were ripped off.
We have no option but to block the trails somehow.

 

[demo 9]

make the jumps too big?

 

[Joz]

Not yet possible :>
These kids would try to hit the jumps anyway.

 

[demo 9]

cant u call cops for vandilism and or destroying ur fence and whatever else they do...?

 

[Joz]

Read my post #4. We could get some trouble for building objects larger than 3qm without permission.

 

[f0ggy]

heres a liability release form that I changed from the lees pump track if I remember, I changed it a little so that I could persuade someone to let me build dirtjumps on their land, that didnt work out but heres this.

it wont let me load it so ill post it.

BICYCLE JUMP TRACK LIABILITY WAIVER AND RELEASE OF LIABILITY
WARNING: BICYCLING IS A DANGEROUS ACTIVITY. BY ENGAGING IN THIS ACTIVITY, THE
PARTICIPANT ASSUMES THE RISK OF SERIOUS INJURY OR DEATH. THIS IS A RELEASEOF
LIABILITY—YOU MUST READ AND FULLY UNDERSTAND THIS BEFORE SIGNING. IF YOU ARE
UNDER 18, YOUR PARENT OR LEGAL GUARDIAN MUST SIGN THIS WAIVER.
Participant Name: ________________________________________________________________
Address:
________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________
I, THE NAMED PARTICIPANT, for myself and on behalf of my/our heirs, assigns, personal representatives
and next of kin, hereby
acknowledge that I voluntarily have applied to participate and use the Bicycle Jump Track. I understand that
the act of bicycling necessarily
involves known and unknown risks of injury to me and other people, which includes but is not limited
to death, permanent or temporary paralysis, disability, illness or disease, physical or mental damage,
or other injury, as well as damage to my equipment and personal property. Some of these risks include
the risks inherent in bicycling such as falling and coming into contact with berms, Jumps, rollers and other objects,
latent or apparent defects or conditions in equipment or property, and passive or active negligent acts
of myself, _______________________ (Below referred to as JUMP TRACK OWNER), other riders. I understand that the above list of risks is not complete or exhaustive and that those
and other risks known or unknown, anticipated or unanticipated may also result in injury, death, illness,
disease to myself or my property or other third parties. I voluntarily agree and promise to accept and
assume responsibilities, and injuries, death, illness, disease or damage to myself or my property arising
from my participation in this activity.
I further understand that JUMP TRACK OWNER assumes no liability for loss, damage, or any kind of injury
sustained by myself or my property while using the Bicycle Track. I therefore assume all risks associated
with using the Bicycle Jump Track, even if they arise from the negligence of TRACK OWNER, TRACK OWNER,
and other riders. My participation in this activity is voluntary and no one is forcing
me to participate in spite of the risks. I understand the effect of this waiver and acceptance of risk on
my legal rights.
By signing this release of liability and using the Bicycle Track, I hereby fully and forever release and
discharge indemnify and hold harmless TRACK OWNER and all associates from any and all liabilities,
claims, demands, damages, rights of action, suits or causes of action present of future, whether they
same be known or unknown, anticipated or unanticipated, resulting from or arising out of my use or
intended use of said Bicycle Track premises, facilities or equipment. I fully and forever release and
discharge TRACK OWNER and associates from any and all negligent acts and omissions in the same,
and intend to be legally bound by this release.
Name of participant using facility: ________________________________________________
Date of birth: ____/____/______
Signature of participant using facility: ___________________________________________
Today’s Date ____/____/______
Phone (_____)________-_______________
Driver’s License #_______________________________________________________________
FOR PARTICIPANTS UNDER 18 YEARS OF AGE
This is to certify that I, as a parent or guardian with legal responsibility for the above named participant,
do consent and ratify his/her release of the County/City/Town, and its agents and employees, and, for
myself, my heirs, assigned, personal representatives and next of kin, I release and agree to indemnify
the County/City/Town, and its agents and employees from any and all liabilities incident to my minor
child’s involvement or participation in the Skate Park as provided above, even if arising from the
negligence of the TRACK OWNER, and its associates, to the fullest extent permitted by law. I have
carefully read this release of liability and understand and fully agree with its contents.
* If the participant is under 18, this release must be signed in person by a parent/legal guardian, or their
signature must be acknowledged by a notary public.
I hereby certify that I am the parent or legal guardian of the participant named above, give my consent
to the foregoing, and agree to hold the Skate Park harmless from any liability
____________________________________________
Parent or Legal Guardian
Parent/Guardian’s Driver’s License #_____________________
Subscribed and sworn to before me this _______day of _________________________, 200 ___
_______________________________________Notary Public (Seal)

 

[FR4life.]

Not yet possible :>
These kids would try to hit the jumps anyway.

I seriously doubt that. Make some big doubles that they would die if they hit, and have fun floating them while you're at it!

 

[demo 9]

Read my post #4. We could get some trouble for building objects larger than 3qm without permission.

i understand that but at least in my country(state), dirt jumps are not "permanent" they are rather... like gardening. so we can build them because they are "temporary" and just "piles of dirt"

 

[Joz]

they are rather... like gardening. so we can build them because they are "temporary" and just "piles of dirt"

If it was gardening, we would have no problems with the law. For gardening reasons - like shaping your backyard like waves - youre allowed to do what you want, but if you start doing some sort of sports on it, things look different.


Thanks f0ggy (and Lee :>) for your effords but again I doubt that these kids would sing anything like that.


FR4life: that would not fit because the area is rather small :>

 

[newrider3]

Cement the fence into the ground. Then have only one gate, with a lock and a no trespassing sign. You can get an 80lb bag of Quikrete for like $4. What are the laws on trespassing like in Germany? Around here if someone comes onto your property intending to cause harm to you, you can use deadly force. But I don't think that the authorities would agree that poaching trails qualifies.

 

[kidwoo]

but copying 3 to 4 keys so everybody has access to the spot is just too much work and would definately go wrong.

You're kidding right?

It works for offices where multiple employees have keys, it works for every bmx track in the US but somehow it's not appropriate here?


It costs about $3 in the US to get keys copied.


I'm starting to think your problem isn't other people riding your trails but a lack of motivation on your part.

 

[basikbiker]

seriously threatin to beat the fu Ck out of em, like with a bat or somthin, and make your trails large and maybe the chain thing, works in watsonville. a chain in between two tree's b4 the first essential dub

 

[scag]

make the jumps too big?

werd! Thats what we did. Then we decided to lock them up....seriously....it cost about $25 USD for the coated chain, lock, posts and cement. If you cant get the "10" kids to throw down $2.50 on the system...then phuck your trails man..give it up already. If they are willing to, then you spend $1 on each copy of the key...you dont need multiple locks.

I'd also hide out and wait for the fagz that come poach your $hit. Woop some ass one time and you shouldnt have to worry about it....they are coming on your private property anywayz...should should have good enough reason.

 

[stinky6]

Build a "squirrel filter" so the jumps aren't hitable unless you have ninja skills. Mace or pepper spray might work too. Or you could tell the kids they can ride there if they keep it clean, maintain the trails and if they invite anyone else there out.

 

[Joz]

I'm starting to think your problem isn't other people riding your trails but a lack of motivation on your part.

Wrong.
But when thinking about how to solve the problem, I was trying to keep things as simple as possible. Also, our group of riders consists of some chaotic (but friendly and dedicated) people.

As a first step we are going to reinforce the fence with metal rods wich we are going to anchor in the ground.

Next step will be one chain that will be fixed at several poles about 1 ft. off the ground with a single lock.


@scag:
I cant phuk the place since I dont have the money to fuel my car for visiting a bikepark every weekend.

 

[Savage_Animal]

Wrong.
But when thinking about how to solve the problem, I was trying to keep things as simple as possible. Also, our group of riders consists of some chaotic (but friendly and dedicated) people.

As a first step we are going to reinforce the fence with metal rods wich we are going to anchor in the ground.

Next step will be one chain that will be fixed at several poles about 1 ft. off the ground with a single lock.


@scag:
I cant phuk the place since I dont have the money to fuel my car for visiting a bikepark every weekend.

Thats a good start I guess, tell us how things go.

 

[Arkayne]

 

[kidwoo]

Wrong.
But when thinking about how to solve the problem, I was trying to keep things as simple as possible. Also, our group of riders consists of some chaotic (but friendly and dedicated) people.

As a first step we are going to reinforce the fence with metal rods wich we are going to anchor in the ground.

Next step will be one chain that will be fixed at several poles about 1 ft. off the ground with a single lock.

See how simple that was?

Pardon me if I think it's funny that you use the cost of getting keys copied as an excuse.

 

[Joz]

Pardon me if I think it's funny that you use the cost of getting keys copied as an excuse.

I think you got me wrong. Its not about the costs of copying some keys if everybody pays his own copy.
Its more about the fact of some chaotic guys losing keys or keys getting in the wrong hands.

Anyway, I'll post an update on the situation.
Thanks,
Joz

 

[woodsguy]

Ever hear of combination locks?

But if they to ripped down the fence they will probably cut your chains. I think roughing them up a bit or patrolling the place are your only options.

 

[seth505]

sorry to hear about your issue...I think the only somewhat easy/straight forward way to do this is the chains across the jumps so you can't physically ride them. If that is not feasable for whatever reason then I agree with 1)making hte jumps huge (If they still try to hit them and F themselves up then hope you show up before cops and just drag their carcass into the street off your property) and 2) making really tech section for the starts, like tight rollers that you need to pump correctly or you won't make the first jump.

If none of that works, then seriously wait for them to come and beat their asses. If they are still persistent add crushing their bikes along with the ass beating.

 

[Strauss]

They caused damage to the property and that is vandalism.

Call the cops.

Only legit way to deal with it - unless you go commando style and hide out. Obviously chains and stuff won't work if they are into tearing down fences.

 

[Cru Jones]

I thought this thread was going to be way more entertaining than this.

FAIL!!!

 

[eaterofdog]

Tough situation Joz.

The one time I saw something like this, one of the locals finally went berserk when one of the trespassers hit him with a rock. Literally smeared his snot nose across his face. And got away with it because the punk split his scalp with the rock.

I remember his nose being crushed sounded like someone smashing a ripe cantaloupe. I coulda told him that was one dude you DEFINITELY don't want to throw rocks at. He's one of those guys who fights just because he likes it.

 

[DirtBag]

1. Post private property signs.
2. Lock it up somehow. Chains, gates, wood - whatever.
3. If they get past the signs and gates, then you are OK to verbally inform them of the situation.
4. If the offense is repeated, then step in with some man-authority. As in fists.
5. Routinely patrol the area. Refer to # 4.

Spend the money to lock it down. Get combination locks. You spent a lot of time on here asking questions and got some good info. Now go execute.

 

[sittingduck]

Nice pic Cru... Was that a fufanu attempt?

 

[Joz]

Thanks for the feedback.
Preperations have already begun. At the moment we are collecting material to reinforce the fence and to block the trails.

Signs have already been there for a while but have repeatedly been ripped apart.

We are going to repair the fence by Thursday. The chain will take some more time as everybody is busy at university/school. But I hope to have a solution by the weekend.

 

[Joz]

Nice pic Cru... Was that a fufanu attempt?

That was a footplant but I slipped off the lip. Actually it did hurt like hell :/

 

[DirtMcGirk]

We had this issue in my last town with both kids who weren't supposed to be riding on our stuff, and kids on MX bikes thinking this was their own playground.

We hung out commando, and when they came around we hung their bikes from the trees with chain and lock. Dad and mom came down, and seven of us holding chains, hammers, shovels and axes had a little chat with them. Once they promised us that the kids would never, ever be back, I cut the lock open and let things land where they did.

I saw the kids just one more time, and they ran like hell when just two of us were there.

Come down on them, and come down hard.

 

[FR4life.]

"Damnit... I had a feeling I needed a bigger jump for flips..."

 

[BeerMe]

We had this issue in my last town with both kids who weren't supposed to be riding on our stuff, and kids on MX bikes thinking this was their own playground.

We hung out commando, and when they came around we hung their bikes from the trees with chain and lock. Dad and mom came down, and seven of us holding chains, hammers, shovels and axes had a little chat with them. Once they promised us that the kids would never, ever be back, I cut the lock open and let things land where they did.

I saw the kids just one more time, and they ran like hell when just two of us were there.

Come down on them, and come down hard.

Seriously.

You're trying to keep human beings out of an outdoor area. There is no simple solution. Simple solutions are for keeping neighborhood dogs out of your trash can. This is obviously going to take some effort. If they're repeatedly trespassing on private property then just handle them like the little kids they are. Surprise them, and take the only thing that keeps bringing them back, their bikes. It's private property so why can't you hang out with a gun in hand? Just don't point it at anyone and don't load it. The presence alone will scare them.