Possible new bike for me...options:

ChainWhip · Jan 16, 2005

sama1ter said:
I currently own a Nicolai Mpire...the problem is, it doesnt fit me very good, the headtube is too steep for my liking, and i want a better pedaling bike.

I dont know how much i can get for it-but I figure i'll have after a little saving, ~$3500 for a new bike... I'm looking at either a VP-Free with a 05 Boxxer Team, or the IH Sunday Team. I might race occasionally, but its more of a bike for having fun at resorts, local trails, and still be able to huck off some things. I understand the Sunday is a race bike, but i figured it might be able to do what im asking for?
what do you guys suggust?

Both bikes you're looking at should perform adequately. But since one of your complaints is with the HT-Angle of the M-Pire, the VP-Free might be similar to the M-Pire (if I'm not mistaken). The Sunday HT-Angle is 65deg-ish I believe and may suit you better.

Somebody may/will probably do their homework and find the HT angles and prove me wrong.

snoopz666 · Jan 16, 2005

you can get the 2005 norco aline for a little over 3 grand. it pedles really well for an 9inch travel bike. and you can sure huck if you need too

snoopz666 · Jan 16, 2005

i dunno im goin to sumpeaks and hopefully whistler this summer. then ill see how it realyl holds up

CreeP · Jan 16, 2005

that's ok. but you won't know what you're missing.

I think the sunday's probably a good option as i'd bet on it being the lighter; and the design has more tt clearance. Maybe wait for a PDC freeride if you're talking frame only?

ChainWhip · Jan 16, 2005

sama1ter said:
also, the nicolai website says its 65*, but i think thats with an888, so i cant really tell. right now, its ALOT steeper then my tazer fs, but everyone was sayign that thing is pretty raked anyways:

Whoa... I don't know if the Sunday will be as raked out as you want it then (compared to the pic of that Tazer).

ioscope · Jan 16, 2005

Looks like 70 to me!

ChainWhip · Jan 16, 2005

It's gonna be difficult to tell based on pictures - IMO the best bet would probably go and find a Sunday to sit on.

Sunday:

Mpire:

Tazer

[/QUOTE]

COmtbiker12 · Jan 16, 2005

Have you tried running a drop crown? I dont know how much that will help, but it ought to atleast let you run it a bit higher. That looks insanely steep for a dh bike....I dunno.

zane · Jan 17, 2005

Jeez, that Ht angle on the your nicolai looks steep. On all the pics I've seen of a VP free w/ a 888 the angle looks pretty slack, but that's with an uber-tall fork. Something about the new sunday just turns me off, I don't quite know what though (besides the neon color...). I'd say go for the VP free, the "versitility factor" seems better than the "world cup capable" factor.

anarchyUK · Jan 17, 2005

the vp free bb is to high t have fun on unless you have to ride to the top. if you put a shorter i2i shock on the vp free to 1. slackn' it out and 2. lower the bb it mmight be good but i say Sunday

ChainWhip · Jan 17, 2005

zane said:
Jeez, that Ht angle on the your nicolai looks steep. On all the pics I've seen of a VP free w/ a 888 the angle looks pretty slack, but that's with an uber-tall fork. Something about the new sunday just turns me off, I don't quite know what though (besides the neon color...). I'd say go for the VP free, the "versitility factor" seems better than the "world cup capable" factor.

It does... did you try playing with the shock mounts/yoke settings? I'm sure there's a way to slacken it out some on the M-Pire.

ChrisRobin · Jan 17, 2005

I was gonna agree with getting the tall crown for the boxxer but since the bike itself doesn't fit you well, there's not much you can do. What's weird is I've seen M-pires with Sliders and Super Ts that look well balanced.

zedro · Jan 17, 2005

ChrisRobin said:
I was gonna agree with getting the tall crown for the boxxer but since the bike itself doesn't fit you well, there's not much you can do. What's weird is I've seen M-pires with Sliders and Super Ts that look well balanced.

maybe he selected the wrong linkage position out of the two billion possible combinations....

ChrisRobin · Jan 17, 2005

zedro said:
maybe he selected the wrong linkage position out of the two billion possible combinations....

Please!...I'd accept that comment if it came from anyone but you!

(Now where's that link to the ZedroMobile...)

BMXman · Jan 17, 2005

Sam there are ways to slacken the headangle on the bike...adjust the shock as well as the wheelbase...as far as the pedaling well there's not much help there unless yoou run some kind of idler like on my Trek....D

OGRipper · Jan 17, 2005

I don't have any time on the Sunday so I can't compare, but my vp-free has been fantastic, totally solid, not one problem.

With an '03 7" Boxxer it had a 67.5 degree head angle and a 14 3/4" BB height.

With an 8" 888 running stock crowns it was 64.5 and 15 1/2.

With an 8" 888 and go-ride lowriders it is 65.5 and 15. With this setup the axle to crown height is 22.5, so if you can find the AC for the new boxxer you should be able to get a pretty good guess.

No matter what it will be more slack than your XC bike...I mean, uh, your Nicolai.

The BB is not "too high to have fun" as someone else said, it's similar to other 8" travel bikes, plus it's recommended that you run slightly more sag than other bikes so it's pretty much a wash.

If it matters, you can use a front derailleur with a vp-free, not so with the Sunday.

I use my free mostly as a lift-assisted park and dh bike, shuttle runs, etc. And although no 40 pound bike will be fun to climb on, the free will definitely climb better than a DH-specific bike, mainly because you can run a full seatpost and a front derailleur. So in that sense it will be a little more versatile.

buildyourown · Jan 17, 2005

sama1ter said:
the wheelbase adjustments are all the way forward-as for the shock adjustments, i tried laying with the shock mount,and it didnt line up with any of the screws...so i don't know what im doing wrong

Yeah, looking at your shock mount, I think it is in the steepest position.
I think this is the answer you're looking for.
As for pedaling: stop trying to find a 8-9" bike that pedals great.

zedro · Jan 17, 2005

buildyourown said:
As for pedaling: stop trying to find a 8-9" bike that pedals great.

what, my bike pedals great. Well exept for the 55lbs build....

zedro · Jan 17, 2005

sama1ter said:
would anyone care to tell me what position it should be in for the SLACKEST head angle? just so i have an idea what to playwith?

take the coil off the damper and try different positions, and make sure the tire wont blow through the seat tube at bottomout. Experiment a little (self-actualisation can be fun).

oh, and you'll know its the slackest since your BB height will be at its lowest. You should check that too since i hear they setup wickedly low.

OGRipper · Jan 17, 2005

You might as well try a few different positions just to be sure. The way it's set up now looks totally wacked and you might like it set up a different way. A slightly lower bb might not be that big a deal for a couple degrees difference in the head angle.

And I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to find a long travel bike that pedals more efficiently, so don't listen to whoever said you should stop considering that as a factor. Just don't expect to climb like a goat on any 45 pound bike. A better pedaler makes a difference when sprinting and when you need a fast response in techy situations, not just when climbing (BYO, you know that). But the most efficient frame on the planet won't help you overcome gravity. A 45 pound hardtail sucks for climbing too, it just sucks slighty less.

But as between the Sunday and the vp-free I don't think there is a big enough difference in pedaling performance to sway you one way or the other. Both are touted as "efficient." I can tell you the free works great. As for the Sunday, you'll have to trust someone else 'cuz I haven't ridden one, but based on comments from The Cult of DW I'll go out on a limb and say it's safe to expect pedaling performance at least on par with a vpp bike.

buildyourown · Jan 17, 2005

zedro said:
what, my bike pedals great. Well exept for the 55lbs build....

It just seems like a silly criteria for a big bike. Granted, I like my DH bikes to pedal well too, but I don't pretent that they work well for going up hills. There are lots of 6-7" bikes that pedal well. If you are just riding it and only occasionally racing, this is where I would look.

zedro · Jan 17, 2005

buildyourown said:
It just seems like a silly criteria for a big bike. Granted, I like my DH bikes to pedal well too, but I don't pretent that they work well for going up hills. There are lots of 6-7" bikes that pedal well. If you are just riding it and only occasionally racing, this is where I would look.

theres 'well', and theres 'annoying'. My Stinky squatted and bobbed so much it fell into the latter. Despite the new bike being heavier, it actually feels quicker to pedal since it's so much more crisp and stable. Well at least until my heart blows out of my chest....

OGRipper · Jan 17, 2005

buildyourown said:
It just seems like a silly criteria for a big bike. Granted, I like my DH bikes to pedal well too, but I don't pretent that they work well for going up hills. There are lots of 6-7" bikes that pedal well. If you are just riding it and only occasionally racing, this is where I would look.

So add another inch of travel and suddenly considering pedaling efficiency becomes "silly"? That's pretty arbitrary and I just don't agree. It's not as big a factor as it might be for an XC bike, but personally I think it would be silly to ignore pedalling efficiency as one of the factors to look at when making an informed buying decision, regardless of the amount of travel.

OGRipper · Jan 17, 2005

Up to speed? If it's not happening on a vp-free or a Sunday, it's probably not the bike.

ChainWhip · Jan 17, 2005

sama1ter said:
up to speed quick* like from 0-10 mph on a flat...the pedaling ont he mpire bobs so much

Try turning the blue knob on your Romic a few clicks clockwise? The Romic *should* help w/ giving you a pedalling platform.

BMXman · Jan 17, 2005

get a stiffer spring....maye the current one is too soft...D

xy9ine · Jan 17, 2005

it *looks* like you could move the downtube shock mount on the mpire forward to slacken the HA - does this work?

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