[NateH]

Myself, Nathan Hoch and my friend Tad Evans are starting a petition to update and improve the WIM series downhill courses to 2004 standards. We intend to volunteer to help with course design, building and venue. We would like to see elmination of some courses (Wenatchee), improvment to others( chelan and winthrope), and the additions of some NW downhill favorites (P.A. , Shelton, Monesano, 38, etc...) We feel that as paying customers we have a right to expect up to date courses that will challenge and prepare local racers for real competition (Schwietzer). We are not unwilling to participate in the changes but we feel that to have racers come back next year WIM must make some changes. If you would like to participate in our petition or just voice your opinions feel free to email me with your name, racing catagory, and email address at hochn13@yahoo.com. Also if you are interested in helping with some trail work towards this goal please send me your phone number so that we can contact you about planning. We feel that many people are worried about the WIM courses but are worried about being seen as complainers or irritating the WIM organizers. We would like to provide this opporotunity to everyone to be heard. We have heard discontent about the courses from all levels of racers and feel this is a problem that needs to be addressed.

 

[Borregokid]

As a xc racer I couldnt agree with you more. I am sure RnR is reviewing the season. It seemed to me after looking at Schweitzer our downhill racers need some attention, even though I ride xc I think downhill needs to be the priority. One of the problems might be having DH and XC on the same site. I am sure that is something they would want to continue. I am thinking something along the line of having maybe 10 DH races and maybe six XC races. So maybe you have four races that are only DH. Also I think more of the races should be closer in to the Olympia-Everett corridor because thats where most people live. I for one am worried about the survival of the whole wims series-we could use a few more racers out there. I am sure Gino and Wendy would like some input. I think the DH racing is where the sport is heading although in the case of Washington State we are behind the curve.

 

[Snacks]

Myself, Nathan Hoch and my friend Tad Evans are starting a petition to update and improve the WIM series downhill courses to 2004 standards. We intend to volunteer to help with course design, building and venue. We would like to see elmination of some courses (Wenatchee), improvment to others( chelan and winthrope), and the additions of some NW downhill favorites (P.A. , Shelton, Monesano, 38, etc...) We feel that as paying customers we have a right to expect up to date courses that will challenge and prepare local racers for real competition (Schwietzer). We are not unwilling to participate in the changes but we feel that to have racers come back next year WIM must make some changes. If you would like to participate in our petition or just voice your opinions feel free to email me with your name, racing catagory, and email address at hochn13@yahoo.com. Also if you are interested in helping with some trail work towards this goal please send me your phone number so that we can contact you about planning. We feel that many people are worried about the WIM courses but are worried about being seen as complainers or irritating the WIM organizers. We would like to provide this opporotunity to everyone to be heard. We have heard discontent about the courses from all levels of racers and feel this is a problem that needs to be addressed.

Have you approched the land owners of the above locations mentioned?

 

[NateH]

Have you approched the land owners of the above locations mentioned?

These venues have been availible for racing in the past and at the moment we are just trying to get a feel for how the rest of the racing community feels about our WIM series. We feel as paying customers that we have a certain amount to expect from RnR and we are willing to help them towards what we want to see.

 

[NateH]

If you support what we are trying to do PLEASE email me so that I can save your name and address. Without enough support this will go nowhere.

 

[Snacks]

These venues have been availible for racing in the past and at the moment we are just trying to get a feel for how the rest of the racing community feels about our WIM series. We feel as paying customers that we have a certain amount to expect from RnR and we are willing to help them towards what we want to see.

I'm sorry to sound all negitive but no races have ever been held at 38 and unless you wanna risk getting the place shut down completely I wouldn't even ask.

Yes, races have been held at Shelton, P.A., and Monty, but how many people attended those races? The fire road to the Monty course is 5 miles long and not in the best shape. If WIM had a race at Shelton, were would everyone park, and at Monty too? We had a race at Shelton with 75 riders and parking was an issue. Plus the shuttle road crosses the course. Did you know that Simpson and Monty close the forest down for almost 3 months in the summer?

I just think you should talk to the land owners and ask how they feel about having 250+ racers, their famlies, specators, and the WIM crew before you present your ideas to RnR.

 

[NateH]

Yes we relize that there are challenges but half the battle is getting Rn'R to see that they have a job to do and part of that is finding places that we want to race and talking to the owners. We are willing to help make courses but we have jobs of our own so we obviously can't do everything. At 50$ a race I think WIM can afford to listen to the riders. Right now we are just getting opinions, if you think those places would be hard to go do you have any suggestions for us? Your opinions matter to us and we want to know what EVERYONE thinks. Thanks for the response would you like to be added to the email list to be kept informed?

 

[holliswood]

Best of luck to you guys as I said in my E- mail to you. But I have pretty much decided to blow off the WIM next year. I will do the Spokane races but that is it. For what it costs to race there series, and seeing the effort they(roundandround) put into it for downhill, I am over it! There are several races about the same distance away(Oregon,Canada) that are the same cost to race, but are actual DH courses. Courses that change every time you race them, and organizers that give a sh*t about the sport. Not how much $$$$ they will make. Kudos to you guys for trying to make a difference!

 

[bibs]

I'm sorry to sound all negitive but no races have ever been held at 38 and unless you wanna risk getting the place shut down completely I wouldn't even ask.

Yes, races have been held at Shelton, P.A., and Monty, but how many people attended those races? The fire road to the Monty course is 5 miles long and not in the best shape. If WIM had a race at Shelton, were would everyone park, and at Monty too? We had a race at Shelton with 75 riders and parking was an issue. Plus the shuttle road crosses the course. Did you know that Simpson and Monty close the forest down for almost 3 months in the summer?

I just think you should talk to the land owners and ask how they feel about having 250+ racers, their famlies, specators, and the WIM crew before you present your ideas to RnR.

werd and Monty is all shut down right now...due to fire...and as for exit 38 the Ranger yeld at me one day for riding there, so dont durn that bridge...leave it be...its on a dont ask dont tell...and who ever the moron that built the trail through the clear cut (that I hear the real builders complaining abou tis) almost got that all shut down. As for WIM, I have a good "friendship" kinda thing with Wendy....they are not and really cant build any more than has already been built, and if you go yaking at them we want this we want that...they will just stop, doing the races....So becarful before you approach anyone....to bad you made DHZ mad, they could have helped you a bit

 

[bibs]

Best of luck to you guys as I said in my E- mail to you. But I have pretty much decided to blow off the WIM next year. I will do the Spokane races but that is it. For what it costs to race there series, and seeing the effort they(roundandround) put into it for downhill, I am over it! There are several races about the same distance away(Oregon,Canada) that are the same cost to race, but are actual DH courses. Courses that change every time you race them, and organizers that give a sh*t about the sport. Not how much $$$$ they will make. Kudos to you guys for trying to make a difference!

my guys have decided the same, time to race the real races made for us..Canada and Oregon. Oh and Idaho ..maybe :evil: WOA!!!..K.E. you almost swore!

 

[NateH]

werd and Monty is all shut down right now...due to fire...and as for exit 38 the Ranger yeld at me one day for riding there, so dont durn that bridge...leave it be...its on a dont ask dont tell...and who ever the moron that built the trail through the clear cut (that I hear the real builders complaining abou tis) almost got that all shut down. As for WIM, I have a good "friendship" kinda thing with Wendy....they are not and really cant build any more than has already been built, and if you go yaking at them we want this we want that...they will just stop, doing the races....So becarful before you approach anyone....to bad you made DHZ mad, they could have helped you a bit

Kim, Cory, and Amy

We are not being specific as to which courses they should do we are simply putting ideas out. We do know about the BC cups and they are awesome races that we will be attending if WIM doesn't come around, we have raced two already and will be at the finals at MT. Washington. Without change the races will die anyway, half the racers from this year have already said that they won't be back? They're already dying we're just trying to help WIM get back in it. I sincerly hope that some of you guys who aren't planning to do the WIM next year will try a couple if we get some change, after all what this is all about is competition and making the experience better for everyone. It seems that too many of us have already concluded that there is no way to make the situation better, but as a group we have some voice in what we want to race. Think about the money we spend to go to whistler and all the other races and places, would you realy mind putting that money into races if the courses were cool? Please don't foucus on the places we mentioned for races but focus on the idea of having better races close to home. As far as things with the DHZ go things are buisness as usual. I don't think mine, tads yours or anyones team affiliation has anything to do with our love of the sport. Please email us back with any ideas and thanks for the thoughts.

Nathan and Tad

 

[joelsman]

I am also planning on racing the bc cup next year, real courses, yea!

SKi areas are the best places to have races, parking and getting to the top are easy.

I would pay a little more for these features.

 

[NateH]

What we would like to know from all of you is if you would support a change from the current WIM series courses to more up to date style courses. The symatics and particulars can be discussed when we talk with Rn'R, we want to know if our goal is on target.

 

[joelsman]

yes I would support those changes, the lack of technical trails for the dh runs leads me to look else where for my dh needs, that and there are no races nearby, all eastside.

 

[buildyourown]

The races are on the eastside because RnR is based in Spokane. They don't want to drive 10 hours any more than we do.

The logistics of the courses you mentioned have all been beat to death. You really can't have a big race at any of them.

RnR will never go back to Snoqualmie. Even if they did charge enough and have enough turn out to open the lifts. I have been told this by various people within RnR.

So, the question remains. Come up with some good alternative locations, and I'm sure RnR will look into them.

I'm pretty comfortable with boycotting the bad WIM races and doing Hood and BC cup. If nobody shows up, the situation will change or WIM will be dead. If WIM dies, another race series will pop up and fill the void.

 

[oly]

3 words:

Local Ski Resort

We all know the summit seems to have their foot up their A$$ when it comes to biking, and we've all spent alot of time E-arguing the points, but what about spending your time and energy to petition for a local area to open? I think you'd get more support from racers and freeriders alike if you could convince someone that there is potential. Crystal MTN ive heard is looking into it, but how much, i dont know. Maybe they need a envelope of signatures of people willing to support and grow a summer business. I think in reality thats the only thing that can breath life back into the WA DH scene.

Snacks pointed out issues with access/parking at the past west side Venues. Have you been to Monte/Shelton? Those places are pretty cool, but there is no way they could support any WIM sized event. PA was also a good place to race, but we know WIM will never go back there..... I also dont think races at some of the more "secret" places would ever be a good idea. A race at one of the exits would sure bring doom.

I think its good to get this ball rolling (improving WIM). I just think the energy could be directed towards somthing that will result in a better outcome. Bottom line is WIM makes a ton of $$ regardless. If we all boycotted them sure they will loose $$, but then they wouldnt have to shuttle out whiny a$$es up the hill from 3-6 on a XC day. Think of how much earlier they would get home.....

On another sorta similar note, I think we will have a good PNW showing at this Mt Washington race.

 

[NateH]

It sounds like you guys agree that you'd like to see a change and all we are asking of you is that you tell if you want to see this change as well. We want the ability to present WIM with a consice, formal list of things that downhillers as a group want to see. And we want to be able to show that this is something we all care about and not just the whinning of a few people here and there. What we are trying to do is eliminate the boycot and just attempt to improve the perdicament. About ski hills we couldn't agree more, that is where we want to be, but we aren't the ones that need to talking that is the job of people who get paid to do it (Rn'R) The only thing that we are trying to do is give RnR the reason to approach all these places (a ton of pnw dh'ers who want a change) We see downhill as being alive and well in the north west it is our races that lag behind. Reading what you guys are saying it sounds like you all agree you'd like to see a change you just don't think its going to happen. One of our reasons for doing this is to give WIM that one last chance before we pickup and leave for BC cups and oregon races permenantly. So if you would like to see a change than you are with us. If you like WIM courses and the way WIM races are run and you want them to stay just the way they are than you don't agree. We want to know how many of you want to see a change and how many of you like WIM courses just like they are now. We don't have the time or desire to argue with everyone about every little detail we just want to make the racing scene as a whole fun in the pacific northwest. Thankyou all for your time and you thoughts.

 

[WSUDirtrider]

Just to clarify, the montesano woods have only been closed for 3 to 4 weeks now, they remained open for the majority of the summer. The course is in remarkably good condition and if done properly with Lake Sylvia state park, an access road to the course can be opened directly from the lake making the drive to the course close to one mile. You can shuttle the course continuously now with the changes that have been made to keep the racers off of the road. Also, if Ron were to open the gates to some spur roads there is more than adequate parking for a wim race.

 

[oly]

Just to clarify, the montesano woods have only been closed for 3 to 4 weeks now, they remained open for the majority of the summer. The course is in remarkably good condition and if done properly with Lake Sylvia state park, an access road to the course can be opened directly from the lake making the drive to the course close to one mile. You can shuttle the course continuously now with the changes that have been made to keep the racers off of the road. Also, if Ron were to open the gates to some spur roads there is more than adequate parking for a wim race.

WSU,

Thanks for that info. A little local knowlege goes along way........

Nate,

I also appreciate the effort you and Tad are taking on. Maybe some progress could be made this time around. Usually we all just get pissed and the topic gets dropped.

Also, wasnt there previously a "freeride" club going to work on access issues? I remember the topic popping up once, but the response was "we will get back to you once theres more info"..... Well is there any? Can that group share some info? Or is it an exclusive club? Whats the reason for not sharing more info?

 

[holliswood]

my guys have decided the same, time to race the real races made for us..Canada and Oregon. Oh and Idaho ..maybe :evil: WOA!!!..K.E. you almost swore!

Your guys? Are you talking about all the hot young guys you keep oiled up back at your love nest?
Yeah' I think there are too many events showing up that are more fun, more challenging, and different.(SUCH AS THE HOOD RIVER EVENT) neaky:
I am not going to lie, the WIM has been fun. I just want to progress and I am not getting anything out of the WIM anymore.
Hey Cory, I heard your "boys" had a little after hours fun at Schwietzer?

 

[oly]

Your guys? Are you talking about all the hot young guys you keep oiled up back at your love nest?
Yeah' I think there are too many events showing up that are more fun, more challenging, and different.(SUCH AS THE HOOD RIVER EVENT) neaky:
I am not going to lie, the WIM has been fun. I just want to progress and I am not getting anything out of the WIM anymore.
Hey Cory, I heard your "boys" had a little after hours fun at Schwietzer?

So thats why he ordered 500 bucks in Pedros lube?? EWWWWW.....

Wim has been fun, but i think alot of the fun is all the friends and the social part. Racing is fun, but its not all about that. If it was we'd all leave 10 minutes after our run like the other crowd does. So, if less people are showing to wim then it will be less fun....

 

[holliswood]

So thats why he ordered 500 bucks in Pedros lube?? EWWWWW.....

Wim has been fun, but i think alot of the fun is all the friends and the social part. Racing is fun, but its not all about that. If it was we'd all leave 10 minutes after our run like the other crowd does. So, if less people are showing to wim then it will be less fun....

I totally agree!!!!

 

[66]

great timing. here is Wendy's letter below:



Hello everybody! Just when you thought you were done hearing from us for the year…..we’re baaaacccckk!

Let me start by saying I hope you are enjoying your summer after surviving another season of WIM racing. It was a very challenging season for us….thanks for your support, helpful suggestions and hanging in there with us! We hope you will notice that we have listened to your great ideas and that by spring of 2005 you’ll have as much energy to race as the energy you will see from us!

We have begun work on next season to bring you more value for your racing buck, including hooking up with several groups/individuals to improve existing courses. Also, a scouting trip over to the west side may be in order to find some different venues over there. We will let you know when we are coming so those of you that have ideas can give us a little tour as well as let Michael and I sleep on your couches, eat your food and hog your remotes! However, the following paragraph is where the excitement really begins!!!

Round and Round Productions has been invited to put on a Super D race at Silver Mountain, Idaho in conjunction with their Summer Concert Series. The event, known as “Silveroxx” will include 5 bands on 2 stages with national act Fishbone as headliners. There will also be a big air show featuring world-renowned jumper Chris Duncan. All information can be found by going to our website, www.roundandround.com and clicking on the link for Silveroxx.

The Super D starts at the top of the Gondola, goes down through the ski area including zigzagging through the half pipe and continues down a mix of mostly single track and some fire road all the way down (about 6 miles) into the town of Kellogg, ID. After crossing the finish line, a short, flat pedal will take you back to the bottom of the Gondola. Did I forget to mention that there is $2500 in prize money up for grabs?! We are very excited about this event and the possibility of having a Group Health WIM Series race at this venue in 2005.

That’s all for now. Thanks again for your support this past season and stay tuned for a new and improved Group Health WIM Series for 2005!

See ya!

Eric Ewing
Round & Round Productions
418 E Pacific
Spokane, WA 99202
509-455-7657
www.roundandround.com



Guard well within yourself that treasure, kindness. Know how to give without hesitation, how to lose without regret, how to acquire without meanness. -- George Sand

 

[bibs]

I totally agree!!!!

no nothing happened..it was just a fun week! good time and bikes!

 

[RhinofromWA]

great timing. here is Wendy's letter below:

Damn you beat me to it....I posted it in it's own thread. :

 

[Borregokid]

My feeling as a xcer is that downhill should be the top dog at the WIMS events. For one thing DH has more younger riders than XC However XC riders overall outnumber DHers. The numbers of DH riders that showed up at Schweitzer from Washington was pretty low. After looking at the state listing, I counted 115 DH riders from Washington. There were 175 XC riders. I guess one of the questions RnR would be looking at is if we add more races-like Snoqualmie would the racers show up?

 

[NateH]

Curtis Asked me to post this for him as he is not a member.

From: Curtis Dunbar
Regarding: WIM and Downhill in the PNW.
Nat and Tad are putting into words exactly what "everyone" feels about
WIM. I have raced WIM for 4 or 5 years. I have talk about these
things with a lot of riders and what Nat and Tad are saying is the general
consciences. Now it is your turn to stand behind it. Many people out
there just do not want to really say anything because they are to nice,
enjoy winning on easy courses, do not want to make waves or offend Geno
or Wendy. Quit being nice, it does not get you what you want. Winning
on easy courses just gets your A__ kicked at National if you get there.
Start making waves because that is how the earth changes shape. As for
Geno & Wendy they are great people and I commend them for all the
effort they do put in when make these races happen. I realize that it can
be frustrating for them and takes a lot of time. I think we all
understand that. The WIM series is part of the business of running Round and
Round Productions. We pay Round and Round Productions, good money, to
provide us with the service of putting on downhill race competitions.
In fact a race fee costs as much or more than what a lift ticket costs
at Whistler, race entry in a BC Cup, race entry fee at an Oregon DH
series event or even music concerts. WHAT THIS IS TALKING ABOUT IS NOT
EXCUSES OF WHY IT WILL NOT WORK AND WHAT THE PITFALLS ARE. We have gotten
enough excuses over the years. IT IS ABOUT WHAT "YOU" AS RACERS WANT
IN A DOWNHILL RACE COURSE AND SERIES.
Are you happy with driving 3 to 5 hours to race somewhere not even
similar to what you normally would ride or representative of the direct the
sport of downhill is going? Tell us.
Are you happy with the typical Washington State Championship including
a 300 yard flat sprint across a field? Tell Us.
Do you like hitting dangerous jumps at 20 to 30 miles per hour, built
of picnic tables or rotten wood? Tell Us.
Are you happy with practicing for 3 or 4 hours and only getting 3 runs?
Tell Us.
Maybe what turns you on is going to all the WIM races & finishing in
the top 5 overall (which by NORBA qualifies you to compete for the US
National Title). By attending most of the races you are the bread and
butter of the WIM, the people who's money keep it going. WIM
(RoundandRound) rewards there most dedicated regional competitors with a beanie
(sock cap) in the middle of the summer.

The bottom line here is that we and many others feel the WIM (Round and
Round) has lost touch with their client, "US" the riders.

We want WIM (Round and Round) to listen to us and do something about
it. I, for one, want them to keep doing the WIM series. They have done
it for years and I thank them for that. I started racing WIM and I
want to keep it that way. Sure if they do not change a thing I will most
likely still race WIM. But it is time for a change, a change for the
better, an improvement. There is no reason for WIM to loose clients to
the Oregon races or to Canada. They can keep all of their clients and
even add more. We need your support and feedback. It is like
organizing a Union. Geno and Wendy (WIM) are used to hearing from a few people
louder than the others and they ignore them. If we want to improve the
level of competition throughout WIM, we all need to ask for it. The
race locations, courses and services need to reflect the clients. Think
about the following things:
1st - Do you want more challenging downhill courses?
2nd - Are you willing to help with time and effort to get them?
3rd - Are you frustrated, bored or unchallenged by the current race
selection which WIM provides?
4th - Do you feel that more riders would come out to race if the course
situation improve?
5th - Do you think the current downhill riders dedication to come out
to the races would increase if the courses improve?
6th - Do you think that the WIM race series prepares you for the
courses and competition we would see at a National event?
7th - Do you feel that the WIM series is a bit out of touch with the
needs and wants of its clients?

We can find new venues there are many places. White Pass, Sno-Q,
Stevens, Crystal, Port Angeles, Beacon Hill, Schweitzer, Mission Ridge,
Olympia, Bellingham, private land - Farmer or Ranchers back yard / tree
farm. We can build new courses. As many of you know I and friend have
done a lot of trail building and trail maintenance. IT TAKES A LOT OF
WORK. WIM will need help. WIM will need to ask the right people for
that help. To make changes to the current courses or to build new ones we
must do it this Fall. BUILDING A DH RACE COURSE ONE WEEK BEFORE THE
RACE DOES NOT WORK. It will fall apart we have seen it over and over.
The reason being, the course dirt has to get a winter on it to pack in
or else the burms and jumps will not make it through practice like
always. We need crew chiefs and crews willing to work hard and follow
direction to build courses. If we can get permission to improve the courses
or make new ones, WIM needs experienced builders to take on the role of
crew chiefs. The crew chiefs would design the overall course and
improvements together. I advise the course than be broken into sections
with an overall plan of what we want to achieve. Keeping in mind time is
limited for everyone our goals and course changes should reflect that.
Each crew chief should have a crew and a section of the trail to
improve, create and finish. There are a lot of strong backs out there. Many
people, ride many of the trails without ever doing trail work. Many
people race all season without ever even saying if they like the courses.
Here is your chance to give back, to improve yourself and the series.
There is a lot here to think about. The biggest thing is do you want
things to change for the better. Do you want better service.
I know I do. And if things do not change, I will do what I have done
this year and last. By my Whister season pass early, race the WIM
season because it is my only real option, Bitch about it the whole time and
build my own trails to practice on but at least I will know we tried.
DO YOU WANT CHANGE???????
Thanks and you can contact me at cdunbar@ansonindustries.com
Curtis Dunbar, Team Downhill Zone Seattle Washington

 

[NateH]

Sticky anyone?

 

[Snacks]

You want changes? There was another race series last year that offered challenging courses, top notch swag, plenty of shuttles and practice time......

 

[66]

You want changes? There was another race series last year that offered challenging courses, top notch swag, plenty of shuttles and practice time......

You tease. that's like reminding us that we have a great ski resort 50 miles from downtown seattle with great riding that we used to be able to ride.

The KR races were wonderful. I would love to race anything you folks had your hands in.

 

[oly]

Sticky anyone?

Is there even a mod for this forum anymore? PM freak or Ridemonkey.......

Tell curtis thanks for the read! He has some well said points.

D

 

[clognot]

Yes, I would support it. I would also like to request that RnR consider these new DH venues for 2005 to have a minimum standard for technical difficulty. We could request that Beacon Hill be that standard. More difficult courses (even if it is in the same locations as in 2004) seem to be a major request from many new and experienced DH riders. I am willing to help make that happen. DH Riders are increasing in talent and skill, and if WIM courses match that, we might actually start seeing an increase in new rider turnouts as well.

My son wants to race XC at Winthrop's fat tire festival in October. I can be available that weekend to work on the Winthrop DH course if in fact we have a go ahead to do so.

cb

 

[66]

...minimum standard for technical difficulty. We could request that Beacon Hill be that standard.

cb

Does anyone else feel that beacon is fun but not a good direction for DH racing? It's like a mountain cross course, only twice as long. I'm not trashing you, clognot, you just said it last. If I’m all alone then I can accept that. But if the common consensus is that we would like the move toward being able to hang with national level races, beacon is not going to do the trick.

That said, beacon is a blast to ride. Every time I go to the eastside to visit my mother, I try and get a couple runs. But it's really a silly racecourse.

 

[clognot]

Granted, some parts of it are, but aside from the 3-5 foot drops here and there, when was the last time you saw a 25 foot rock face on a mountain cross course? All kidding aside, it is a course that keeps you downhilling from top to bottom, as opposed to pedalling and falling asleep. One could also argue that it bears the most crashes of all the WIM courses, which means it is a decent challenge for the average rider.

The point of this thread is to state weather you agree with a change or not. I agree, and hope that Beacon Hill can stay a part of the WIM and be a minimum standard for other courses to aspire...as well as "surpass". Make sense?

cb

 

[66]

good point about the crashes. and the rock wall. I do agree and I sent my email. but i guess noone would no that aside from me.

 

[NateH]

You want changes? There was another race series last year that offered challenging courses, top notch swag, plenty of shuttles and practice time......

I understand your point and respect it but please stay on the WIM topic, I don't see this as a productive addition to our goal. Sure there was another series but it had its problems too (direct competition with WIM hurt in the long run) But this is not the time or the place to debate that.

 

[NateH]

As far as Spokane for a standard goes, despite its short length it is what we could classify as a "real downhill course" What we hope to do is update all the courses this year then in the future we can plan a work party at 1 course at the end of each year. This party would basicaly be a weekend for anyone who wants to come to work, drink some beers and relax with some cool people. Our basic goal is to race in the spring and summer and do some work in the fall when the rain can help us.

 

[Snacks]

I understand your point and respect it but please stay on the WIM topic, I don't see this as a productive addition to our goal. Sure there was another series but it had its problems too (direct competition with WIM hurt in the long run) But this is not the time or the place to debate that.

This is Kevin, too lazy to log out of Snacks.
There was never any "direct competition with WIM"? All races were scheduled around the WIM schedule. Direct competition with Whistler maybe...

This is like the season ending broken record I hear and have been hearing for going on 10 years now. "we want changes...blah blah blah......."
Some people threaten to "boycott" the series if nothing changes and some people actually follow through, but I've never seen a person at a BC Cup that was boycotting the WIM series?
None of the Western WA venues could handle the amount of people that come to a WIM race with the exception of PA. And this especialy includes Monte - it is a logistical nightmare to put on a race there. If we could build a new course in a totally different location in the forrest (and they have said they are open to this) it would be more feasible.
As for ski area venues, Snoqualmie and WIM aren't going to happen (Sno - "they still owe us $xxxxxx", WIM - "they are trying to bill us for things never included in the original contract...") and I've heard rumblings of the same thing with Crystal. WIM was going to go to White Pass a few years back, but the place thinks access roads are good places for DH courses. Things and attitudes change, but I think the big issues with ski areas are envirornmental concerns. Why risk your USFS permits (netting millions of $$ every winter) to let some company put on a race for one weekend (netting you maybe a few hundred $$).
I think the best thing to try is to get WIM to reconsider some previous locations like Lookout Pass, 49 North (Chewelah), even Waterville and new places that are showing interest like Silver Mountain. All of these locations would require pretty much all new courses. But like Curtis said, they need to be built now, to let the berms and jumps and what have you set up.
Also, make it worthwhile for people to come work on courses. I'm not going someplace like Winthrop (again) on a Thursday morning and staying two extra nights for nothing. At least throw down some swag or lunch or something????
Which brings up a point about the existing courses - I got e-mails all year long requesting people to come work on the courses before races, but when you talk to Mike L. or the other course crew (sorry, don't remember their names) they said no one showed up? Everyone says "I want a new course and am willing to do the work myself.." but by the looks of it, hardly anyone put up, i.e., put up or shut up?
I have went over to eastern WA to work on courses only to be told that we can't do anything new, only "modify" whats already there. When I'm told we can build something new, even at existing locations, I'll do my share and try to drag as many people as possible with me.

I'm glad your all enthusiastic about this and wish you luck.

 

[Snacks]

I understand your point and respect it but please stay on the WIM topic, I don't see this as a productive addition to our goal. Sure there was another series but it had its problems too (direct competition with WIM hurt in the long run) But this is not the time or the place to debate that.

This is Snacks.....

First of all like Kevin said there was no direct competition with WIM at our races, just competition with Whistler.

Sorry if you think I'm not addressing the whole change WIM issues, but this is the same thread, different year.

Before you go to WIM with a petition that they change or boycott, which there is a good chance they'll say 'see ya', why don't you approach them in a non-threating way? Shoot them an e-mail and ask them what you're group can do to improve the courses for next year.

 

[clognot]

Snacks,

You are right. We will use respect in the presentation. I spoke with the thread starters, and basically that is what they want to do. Go to RnR, in a non threatening way of course, and see if there is a chance to improve on courses. I'm new to DH, but since this has been discussed for years apparently, with nothing much being done, the backing of many who respond to this thread will simply be a way of showing RnR that the majority (or many) do wish for course upgrades and seem ready to help make it happen. This petition will just be to show them what their customers prefer. And a business is supposed to be all about the customer, right? Wendy and Geno are good people and whether we succeed in improving on the WIM series for 2005 or not won't affect how we treat them.

cb