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Reform or Revolution?

JOEBIALEK

Chimp
Jan 29, 2005
15
0
I had the opportunity the other day to watch a most enlightening program broadcast by UCTV. The one-hour program was called "How Unequal Can America Get Before We Snap?" presented by President Clinton's former labor secretary Robert Reich.

"Inequality of income, wealth, and opportunity in America is wider now than it's been since the 1920s, and by some measures since the late 19th century. Yet the nation seems unable or unwilling to do much of anything to reverse these trends. What happens if we allow the trends to continue? Will they "naturally" reverse themselves? Or will we get to a point where disparities are so wide that we finally find the political will to take action? Alternatively, will the disparities themselves grow so wide as to discourage action, by fostering resignation among the losers and indifference among the winners? And if the latter, where will it all lead?" SOURCE: Goldman School of Public Policy UC, Berkley

The presentation made excellent use of economic graphs to demonstrate how large of a gap has developed between the upper class and the middle class (not to mention the lower class) with regards to income, wealth, and opportunity in the United States between the years 1962 to the present. The trends are alarming to say the least. The speaker correctly points to birthright as the beginning of the disparity that allows for advantages in everything from diet and healthcare to education and connections. Being born into a middle-class family myself, I have truly benefited from my birthright in terms of these advantages right from the starting gate. Some people would argue that many a poor person has risen up by their "own boot straps" but I would argue that in today's society, most (not all) poor people can only rise up with a good pair of athletic shoes or a willingness to sell drugs. Otherwise they have to remain content with working in the service industry for comparatively lower wages than their upper-class counterparts. Mr. Reich further points out that one of the elements keeping our society glued together is the belief or perception by the lower class that opportunity in this country still exists and that if one is willing to work hard, they can be successful.

The speaker talks of two potential outcomes for this growing disparity. He uses the metaphor of the rubber band to illustrate his point. Our society will either "snap back" with a series of reforms supported by all three classes and the government to regain a sense of fairness when it comes to income, wealth, and opportunity in the United States. This has occurred at least once before in the history of our country during a time referred to as the progressive movement. The other potential outcome is for our society to "snap break" whereby this country exists with two entirely different societies. The problem with the latter outcome is that it often leads to the arrival of a demagogue who plays upon the emotions of the middle and lower classes all for the hidden intention of personal gain. We have seen this all too often in history with the likes of Napoleon, Mussolini, Hitler, Lenin etcetera. Mr. Reich suggests somehow that the upper class are not a group with malicious intent but rather are nothing more than a naive self-indulgent class of people who don't know any better. Here I beg to differ. I believe the upper class is guilty of a careless disregard for their fellow countrymen. They have the arrogance to believe they are superior and deserving of extravagance regardless of how they attained it and regardless of how it affects the rest of society. Once again, history shows us what happened to those monarchs who behaved the same way. Do I think there will be a violent revolution in this country? I hope not. Do I prefer a new progressive movement over even a peaceful revolution? Absolutely. My fear however, is that we are already rapidly approaching the point of "critical mass" beyond which there is no turning back. The question today before the American people is what are YOU prepared to do?
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,371
7,766
what i am prepared to do is to emigrate from the u.s. when the opportunity arises :thumb:
 

dan-o

Turbo Monkey
Jun 30, 2004
6,499
2,805
I thought the whole point of Wal-Mart, pre-paid cell phones and GM Employee Pricing was to make the little people feel important?
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,355
2,466
Pōneke
This is freaky. What do you suppose he is? A very bored person? I can't believe anyone would take the time to post the same thread on 120 boards without getting paid for it. I recon he's some sort of research monster. I wonder who holds his leash?

Annoyingly enough this time he does actually have a good topic to discuss. Not in this thread though, I feel like I'm being watched... :think:
 
Come on, how many jobs has he had offered to him in the last few years. Here's a chance to get your name in the papers and make a statement. Who wouldnt take the opportunity to do that? Besides, he does have a point. The rich get richer, the middle class stays the same, and the poor stay poor. This is the way it is here. And Valve is right. When I retire from the military, I plan to be ready to move to Europe when the time comes.

Chang darling, its spelled R-E-C-K-O-N not recon. Keep with the redneck lingo lessons, it'll pay off eventually.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,698
1,749
chez moi
genpowell71 said:
Just gonna have a hard time getting used to socialized medicine
You're in the military; you won't have any trouble at all. You're used to mediocre care, limited options, no malpractice suits, and long waits, none of which you can buy yourself out of. And you're used to being cared for, at a decent Western standard, in the end without ever paying a red cent for it.

The military is the most socialized structure in America on pretty much every level.

Try getting out and getting real health insurance. The bills are still baffling me...my care was covered for the hospital's bills, sure, but not the DOCTOR'S bills, because even though the hospital urgent care is a covered FACILITY, the doctor who treated me wasn't a covered PHYSICIAN. Wtf??

Apparently, you get bills from the doc for his services and the hospital for use of its facilities...the doc is like an independent contractor, not an employee of the hospital...

Suddenly, getting injured on my bike is a whole new world of worry. I rode hard for 7 years; only had one concussion which TRICARE paid for. Now I'm going to have to pay, somehow, if I'm hurt, and suffer consequences at work if I'm too badly hurt to continue working. Which is making me ride less committed and get hurt more. And I'm STILL working for the gov't, not private industry, but getting paid less and having to pay for my med insurance AND some for bills on top of it...geez...real life sucks!

Edit: I never had dependents during my military service, so I guess I'm a little off-base in that TRICARE for dependents works more like normal health insurance, no? You may be more used to this stuff than I thought...

MD
 
MikeD said:
The military is the most socialized structure in America on pretty much every level.

You may be more used to this stuff than I thought...

MD
I'll be completely honest with you about tricare. Its not the easiest thing to deal with. Not to mention that its more expensive than about everything out there after you retire.

As for dependants, I'll get them out on my other healthcare insurance thru whatever job I have after I retire. I dont want to have to submit them to the botom 35% of the med school people anymore than I have to. Didnt know that did you. There was a study done about 5 years ago by 60 minutes of all people on the quality of teh medical care the miltary recieves. All the doctors they interviewed wer asked where they graduated in their medschool class. 85% of them were in the bottom 40% of their class. Makes you think about how much better civilian care is.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,698
1,749
chez moi
genpowell71 said:
Makes you think about how much better civilian care is.
There's a reason doctors stay in a system that shields them from any malpractice instead of going on to make many times more than they are at the moment. Or, in some cases, it's that they're so socially inept that they'd never have any patients if the patients had a choice, so they stay where they are, collect rank, and perversely are put in charge of other docs who become embittered and disillusioned that much faster.

Then again, there are a few good ones who just like the military life and the chances it offers them to be stationed overseas or whatever. Rarer than the previous 2 cases, I wager.

MD
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
MikeD said:
You're in the military; you won't have any trouble at all. You're used to mediocre care, limited options, no malpractice suits, and long waits, none of which you can buy yourself out of. And you're used to being cared for, at a decent Western standard, in the end without ever paying a red cent for it.

The military is the most socialized structure in America on pretty much every level.

Try getting out and getting real health insurance. The bills are still baffling me...my care was covered for the hospital's bills, sure, but not the DOCTOR'S bills, because even though the hospital urgent care is a covered FACILITY, the doctor who treated me wasn't a covered PHYSICIAN. Wtf??

Apparently, you get bills from the doc for his services and the hospital for use of its facilities...the doc is like an independent contractor, not an employee of the hospital...

Suddenly, getting injured on my bike is a whole new world of worry. I rode hard for 7 years; only had one concussion which TRICARE paid for. Now I'm going to have to pay, somehow, if I'm hurt, and suffer consequences at work if I'm too badly hurt to continue working. Which is making me ride less committed and get hurt more. And I'm STILL working for the gov't, not private industry, but getting paid less and having to pay for my med insurance AND some for bills on top of it...geez...real life sucks!

Edit: I never had dependents during my military service, so I guess I'm a little off-base in that TRICARE for dependents works more like normal health insurance, no? You may be more used to this stuff than I thought...

MD

This bring back fond memories of being treated in the Medical Hobby Shoppe on base...


:dead:
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
genpowell71 said:
I'll be completely honest with you about tricare. Its not the easiest thing to deal with. Not to mention that its more expensive than about everything out there after you retire.

As for dependants, I'll get them out on my other healthcare insurance thru whatever job I have after I retire. I dont want to have to submit them to the botom 35% of the med school people anymore than I have to. Didnt know that did you. There was a study done about 5 years ago by 60 minutes of all people on the quality of teh medical care the miltary recieves. All the doctors they interviewed wer asked where they graduated in their medschool class. 85% of them were in the bottom 40% of their class. Makes you think about how much better civilian care is.

TriCare = TryToGetCare
 
MikeD said:
There's a reason doctors stay in a system that shields them from any malpractice instead of going on to make many times more than they are at the moment. Or, in some cases, it's that they're so socially inept that they'd never have any patients if the patients had a choice, so they stay where they are, collect rank, and perversely are put in charge of other docs who become embittered and disillusioned that much faster.

Then again, there are a few good ones who just like the military life and the chances it offers them to be stationed overseas or whatever. Rarer than the previous 2 cases, I wager.

MD
.

I will say this much, like you said there are those gifted few that join the military to do the right thing and are good at being doctors. My kids pediatrician was the best I've ever seen. Dr Hunter at Fort Campbell was as gifted doctor as I am at killing insurgents. There was no need to second guess the diagnosis and care was always quick and exactly what was needed. But yes, for the most part they stay in the military, retire and go on to civilain practice with all that "expirience". then the civilian world goes "OOHHH you've treated soldiers therefore you must be a good doctor". And of course no one is going to question a retired military dr. Its a shiatty system we have here in the military.