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Renewal of interest in bigger/better brakes?

Dog Welder

Turbo Monkey
Sep 7, 2001
1,127
0
Pasadena, CA
Just picked up the newest Dirt and its got an interview with Redraven, a company out of the UK that makes a 230mm rotor and "Alpine brake kit". In another magazine was a picture of a proto Hayes that looks a lot like the Gustav caliper on a 230mm rotor. If people are looking for bigger and better brakes...why not just bring back that dual rotor Shimano prototype they had before they put out the very first XT. I remember reading somewhere that those things had so much stopping power that you'd have to spill brake fluid on them just so that you'd get some modulation.
 

dhkid

Turbo Monkey
Mar 10, 2005
3,359
0
Malaysia
dual disc prototype? anyone got a pic of that? anyways, IMO, ppl dont really want more powerfull brakes, just ones that dont fade...
 

dhkid

Turbo Monkey
Mar 10, 2005
3,359
0
Malaysia
thaflyinfatman said:
Until bike brakes are as consistent and reliable as moto/car brakes, then I say yes, any kind of development is necessary.
yea, quite true. they are just too touchy right now.
 

360

Monkey
Apr 17, 2003
227
0
Edinburgh
im quite happy with current brakes. I've tried more powerful systems but even after alot of use, i still find myself braking too hard or draging, im definitely quicker on my saints than on 6pots or old xts


Im sure companys like hope etc develop these brakes because they know they can charge alot for them and people will buy them thinking they need em.
 

COmtbiker12

Turbo Monkey
Dec 17, 2003
2,577
0
Colorado Springs
I like my 4post XTs. I think a setup that doesn't fade out during riding is all that is needed. Plus, how are you gonna learn to ride faster if you're constantly riding the brakes? (I'm guilty of this sometimes :p )
 

mack

Turbo Monkey
Feb 26, 2003
3,675
0
Colorado
COmtbiker12 said:
I like my 4post XTs. I think a setup that doesn't fade out during riding is all that is needed. Plus, how are you gonna learn to ride faster if you're constantly riding the brakes? (I'm guilty of this sometimes :p )

More powerfull brakes allow you to brake later, and do cool stoppies in the parking lot.
 

RD3

Monkey
Nov 30, 2003
661
11
PA
As far as big rotors go, is 230mm the largest rotor that is made now? Anyone make a bigger one? I know Hope makes a 225mm.
 

shock

Monkey
Feb 20, 2002
369
0
in the meantime, Fabien Barel wins the world cahampionship with a 6" disc on the rear....
 
dhkid said:
yea, quite true. they are just too touchy right now.

Yeah. I think a lot of that is down to weight though. We could go and run a nice durable reliable brake found on the front of a GSX-R, but we don't wan't our brakes weighing as much as our forks.

There are some really nice brakes floating around from some unheard of manufacturers, but they all cost far too much money.
 

DirtEveryDay

Turbo Monkey
Nov 24, 2003
2,695
4
Pacific North Wet
So which setup is the popular kid on the course right now?
Was looking at Hope 6s or Gustavs...

And I guess I'm not too excited about bigger rotors coming into play, I worry enough about pingin' em off stuff. And I run the Hope Mud Cutters...they get out of wack andI'm either sailing over the bars or ripping my caliper off its mounts!

I think the two main points of interest that NEED to be dealt with are the pads and the rotors. Thicker rotors would be great for several different and obvious reasons, and our little weenie pads are just crap. It's all about contact patch. Can only do so much with 1" of pad per side providing pressure. We've already got multiple piston brakes...why not just separate them a bit more, make a longer, crescent shaped caliper that gives us like 3" of contact patch per side? Pads would last longer, possibly rotors would as well.

Another thought is a remote resevoir, similar to some cars and motos, to allow for more fluid.
I've built 4x4s and rockcrawlers for 10+ years, and there were always two issues that were never beyond satisfaction: Steering and brakes. There are two different forces in braking: Pressure and volume. Pressure stops faster, volume keeps them consistent. Combine bigger that with a large contact braking surface and you can put face prints on windsheilds.... or stems.
 

Spunger

Git yer dumb questions here
Feb 19, 2003
2,258
0
805
Anything with the 4 piston or 6 piston design is where things will go, it's just like cars.......add a bigger rotor, more piston caliper, and change that brake fluid to the expensive 5.1 stuff or whatever and you'll have power. But that applies to a 3,000 lbs car, not a 40 lbs bike.

I think with the choices of brakes today, as in right now, you can get anything and everything inbetween. How much power do you really want out of a bicycle brake setup? Hell using 8" rotors and Hayes seem fine to me, no issues or problems. I'm just kind of wondering how much more power is needed because people aren't crashing and getting hurt beacuse their Hayes/Saint/Hope Mono 6's/Juicy's aren't stopping them.

If the rotor gets any bigger I'll start smacking it on rocks in the front. The dual rotor idea sounds pretty trick, but then no fork has disc brake mounts on the other leg, but with a valve of some sort it's all possible to have 2 8" discs, with calipers, running off one brake lever. That'd be one for the ages for bicycle stopping power. Someone's headtube will for surely get ripped off.
 

ThePriceSeliger

Mushhead
Mar 31, 2004
4,861
0
Denver, Colorado
COmtbiker12 said:
I like my 4post XTs. I think a setup that doesn't fade out during riding is all that is needed. Plus, how are you gonna learn to ride faster if you're constantly riding the brakes? (I'm guilty of this sometimes :p )
Are those the brakes i sold you? or did you have another pair?
 

wydopen

Turbo Monkey
Jan 16, 2005
1,235
60
805
zedro said:
thats why sometimes the fastest cars in motorsport are the ones that can brake the hardest. Sounds like Tony thinks we should go to back to Vee's :monkey:


but an mtb dosnt have nearly as much breaking traction as automotive applications

all i can say is BREMBO
 

tartosuc

Monkey
Feb 9, 2004
202
0
montreal
wydopen said:
but an mtb dosnt have nearly as much breaking traction as automotive applications

all i can say is BREMBO
YEah thoses brembo are incredible but the price is just ridiculous!(1200$ canadian$ per wheel) I had a chance to check them out at the BTAC, I was working for the canadian distributer ...Man thoses brakes got the best feel i've ever tried! better than my gustav!

I'm testing at the moment a set of gator brakes, they are very similar to the old shimano xt...the feel is very good and the modulation is great ans I have plenty of power, i have a 6 piston dh type up fron and a 4 piston in the rear...

I really dont think that we need larger rotor, the brakes in the market today are powerfull enough for all the needs...I think the futur will be on braking quality, a mix of good modulation, power, ansd consistancy is what is needed.
 

gemini2k

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2005
3,526
115
San Francisco
um...bigger brakes aren't gonna make you stop any faster. Unless you have trouble now locking up your wheel (and if you do with a 6in rotor youre a puss-y) a bigger rotor is just gonna cause you to lock your wheel with less force at the lever. They'll only help fading.
________
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Banga

Monkey
Sep 7, 2001
361
3
Wellington, New Zealand
Bigger rotors just mean more chance of hitting them on rocks etc.

I dont think I need any more power than what I have now, ( xt 4 pots, with saint levers and goodridge lines) if I wanted more Id go for EBC red pads, and have to worry about throwing myself over the bars.
 

bballe336

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2005
1,757
0
MA
i think what is currently out is more than powerful enough. and there are enough brakes that everyone can find whats right for them. I think the only issue with disk brakes that needs to be adressed is the flimsy rotors. i would be willing to pay more for rotors if if they lasted longer. with current technology and manufacturing processes it would not be at all hard to create a stronger rotor at the current weights.

just my 2 cents.
 

Dog Welder

Turbo Monkey
Sep 7, 2001
1,127
0
Pasadena, CA
Spunger said:
The dual rotor idea sounds pretty trick, but then no fork has disc brake mounts on the other leg, but with a valve of some sort it's all possible to have 2 8" discs, with calipers, running off one brake lever. That'd be one for the ages for bicycle stopping power. Someone's headtube will for surely get ripped off.
It wasn't dual rotor in the sense that you have two rotors and two calipers like most street bikes today. Shimano's first disk was more like a cars ventilated rotor. where technically you have two disks that are bonded to gether creating a "thick" rotor if you will.
 

Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
9,450
1,850
AK
Dog Welder said:
It wasn't dual rotor in the sense that you have two rotors and two calipers like most street bikes today. Shimano's first disk was more like a cars ventilated rotor. where technically you have two disks that are bonded to gether creating a "thick" rotor if you will.
Large aircraft have an arrangement sort of similer to what shimano was doing. Inside of the landing gear hub there's acutally a bunch of "discs", and a bunch of pads. They are all sandwitched together when the caliper is actuated by hydraulic pressure. So, you can just imagine how much more friction they get out of their brakes when they have something like 6 or 8 disc rotors right next to each other with a pad between all of them. Immense stopping power.
 

zedro

Turbo Monkey
Sep 14, 2001
4,160
0
at the end of the longest line
gemini2k said:
um...bigger brakes aren't gonna make you stop any faster. Unless you have trouble now locking up your wheel (and if you do with a 6in rotor youre a puss-y) a bigger rotor is just gonna cause you to lock your wheel with less force at the lever. They'll only help fading.
actually i cant lock up the front unless i'm on really slippy terrain, so there is some room there. But i would go for the consistency over anything else which i think is the main problem. And like was said by others, i dont think bigger rotors is really the solution, thats just the easy way of increasing power but not necessarily quality; it's about better brakes, not bigger.