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Riders Ready. Watch The Gate...

SuspectDevice

Turbo Monkey
Aug 23, 2002
3,944
35
Roanoke, VA
It's halfway through the season but FTW just finished up the first micro batch Spooky slalom race frames just in time for the outlaw free ds races that will start to pop up as we get closer to Nationals in NC.






Formed 1" square chainstays and 7/8ths seatstays are going to feel pretty good out of the gate.

I'm hoping to throw it together by the end of next week with some XTR, a tapered qr15 X-Fusion velvet and my King/ENVE wheels. I'm hoping that it squeaks in under 20 pounds but I think 21.5# is more realistic. I'll end up running my Saint cranks and less-expensive wheels when it's not time to smash gates for glory. If it wasn't for some very nice people and a few cast off parts from rich friends I don't think i'd ever be able to stick a drivetrain on this thing!

It sucks that the number of people who want fully-custom race frames(and are willing to pay for it) is pretty small as I'd sure as hell rather make DS frames rather than road bikes. I guy can dream though. After they announced that DS was returning to the national championships orders started trickling in. I'm hoping deposits keep rolling in so that we could put bikes out quicker and cheaper(few people feel like spending $1200 for a frame), but I think it's kinda cool that best race bike you can get has to be made to order...

I haven't ridden trails in a few years- just lots of pumptracks and flat corners but I'm stoked to get this bike to somewhere like Highland's trails to get comfortable again on the steep lips and tight transitions.
Designing **** and getting to ride it is so rewarding it almost makes up for being broke and crazy 93.8% of the time.
 

don

Turbo Monkey
Nov 8, 2001
1,321
0
Rumson, NJ
Looks great Mickey! FTW does not disappoint. I meant to throw you a line about Will Collins having a beauty spread in Decline. Think he was on a proto of this frame? If you guys need to do some testing (aka ride DJ trails) on the way down to NC and are in NJ let me know.

Post some pics when that bear is built up :thumbs:
 

SuspectDevice

Turbo Monkey
Aug 23, 2002
3,944
35
Roanoke, VA
I think we got a ton of press last year that I didn't see. I hear a got a few shots myself that I've never seen in print. If it's one of the DeLorme shots from a shoot we did last year it's pretty sweet!


Will was getting dirt in his front pockets!

DeLorme is a wizard with a camera. He can even make me look aggro.


Getting to work with a good photographer is such a privilege.
 

don

Turbo Monkey
Nov 8, 2001
1,321
0
Rumson, NJ
Those are some great shots. Of course I am not sure where that Decline issue went to, but I remember it being a big ol' roost shot like the one above but Will had the bike laid down quite a bit. Tell him the dirt in NJ is running well.

That shot of you on the 20" is sweet. I know you didn't plan it but the colors are perfect. It has a late 80's bmx/punk feel to it - which I was all about BITD :)
 

SuspectDevice

Turbo Monkey
Aug 23, 2002
3,944
35
Roanoke, VA
The decline site actually has online backissues.

That rad spread of Will is on bage ~20 of the June '11 issue.

He actually was punching his hand through the inside of that corner. Totally ****ing gnarly!
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
22,262
1,955
In my pants
That thing looks sick mickey!

Just out of curiosity, what would you charge for a fully custom frame? I mean geo, measurements and all? I know frank has to do the jig work but I'm assuming it's been asked of you at some point.
 

SuspectDevice

Turbo Monkey
Aug 23, 2002
3,944
35
Roanoke, VA
That thing looks sick mickey!

Just out of curiosity, what would you charge for a fully custom frame? I mean geo, measurements and all? I know frank has to do the jig work but I'm assuming it's been asked of you at some point.

Well, depends on the material(steel or aluminum(7005 and 6061 need separate price points)), if we need to cnc stuff or build tools to custom form custom tubes, if you want some retarded geometry, what kind of finish you want and how long you're willing to wait, all that jazz can vary a lot.

Officially all of our mtb frames start at $1450 be they custom or made to order. They're priced like that to keep the d!ckheads and dweebs away.

The 3 we just built for custom customers left the door for exactly twice the price of a Yeti DJ, albeit built in VT by one of the founders of Yeti who just happens to be the dude who built the first ever DJ/4x specific frames for the company that I pilot the corpse of. There are a few consumers out there that are into that and they are a pleasure to deal with.

Since both of us f#cking love to make rad little hardtails the pricing, by neccesity, usually ends up being a buddy deal. We just can't say no! When we do them it's about damn near our cost and I usually expect some nice barters or race results to sweeten the pot.
That's some unfair bull**** right there, I know.

For instance this 20" race frame cost a whole hell of a lot less than $1400.




But that's because it was for my buddy Garson's little brother, who just happens to be the #2 ranked slalom snowboard racer in the country and short listed for the Olympics, a kid I've sponsored since he was 12 and single-handedly the best person I've ever seen turn a bike around gates on grass. It'd have to retail for at least $800 not to bleed capital. Converse had a small fist full of cash in his hand and we had all the tubes we needed in stock, a lot of them stuff we cut too short for something else. Boom!

The slalom bikes above are wicked easy to build even with those rad formed chainstays. Frank built them all before lunch one day, although he does get to the shop at 4:30. Even if it only takes him a few hours to knock out a frame the fixed costs built into aluminum, running a bike factory and attempting to keep me fed and sane are really high.
You know what's rad?
This 12" kids frame:

Frank built it for the 3 year old child of his Italian distributor. Happy birth Guido!

If we built a production run of slalom bikes(25) I could retail them for a little less than $900 with some nice powder on them and make just enough money to make it worthwhile. I'd probabally sell most of them overseas to adults, since most Americans and 14 year old kids just don't get it.

Wait, what was the question?
 
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HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
10,582
886
Seattle
The proto version of that I rode at Whiteface was probably the best handling bike I've ever been on. Fvcking railed. Digging through couch for spare change now. :D


My memory is a little fuzzy at least in part because Mickey was being pretty generous with a bottle of Jack, but I definately took one of their hardtails for a run top to bottom after one of the East Coast Rox™ took the rear derailleur off my DH bike. It was a blast. Not sure if it was that one or something else.
 
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kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
22,262
1,955
In my pants
Thanks for the info. I'm thinking 6061, horizontal dropouts, nothing weird that would necessitate machined parts you haven't already done, it's the geo numbers I'm after that no one makes. Nothing outlandish, just pushing one or two numbers.

You guys still doing steel?
 

ZoRo

Turbo Monkey
Sep 28, 2004
1,225
8
Montréal, PQ
Great bikes. Love the slalom theme here! But could the bike be raced on a 4x track or it will explode to its imminent death?

JK, but why no ISCG tabs on your frames?? They make life WAY easier than the years when MR Dirt used to rule the chain guide world!

What are the weights looking like for frame only? Ballpark 5lbs like a Yeti DJ or more 3 and some change like a Commencal (al not ti)??
 

SuspectDevice

Turbo Monkey
Aug 23, 2002
3,944
35
Roanoke, VA
Great bikes. Love the slalom theme here! But could the bike be raced on a 4x track or it will explode to its imminent death?

JK, but why no ISCG tabs on your frames?? They make life WAY easier than the years when MR Dirt used to rule the chain guide world!

What are the weights looking like for frame only? Ballpark 5lbs like a Yeti DJ or more 3 and some change like a Commencal (al not ti)??
They come in right around 2kilos(4.4 pounds.) Strong enough for anything except park riding. A couple of extra gussets and It'd be bombproof.

Consider it a race/trails bike in terms of durability.

These bikes don't have tabs for a few reasons:
a. we didn't feel like making them.

b. I wanted to use some heavily relieved bb shells i had.
These frames are 7005 aluminum. The bar stock for it is wicked expensive, so it wasn't worth it.

c. Many of my friends who work in the chainguide industry run sandwich adapters because the ISCG clocking and straightness on many bikes is just totally f#cked. FTW's 6061 shells have big fat iscg mounts on them that work sweet though, but once again, 7005 stock is damn expensive.
Working on guides sucks no matter how you do it, so I'm indifferent about it myself.

I've been progressively creeping toward the geometry numbers for the last 6 years. It's rad. I suppose the size is a medium with a 23.25" toptube and 14.6" seattube. There is a 23.55" size that has completely different numbers. I gotta stop doing that. There's a shorter size too...

With an external lower headset cup and 480mm axle to crown fork and 4.33" headtube it has a 42.3" wheelbase with 16.18" chainstays, 12.4" bb height, 71sta and 67.5 degree headangle.

We built protos with bb heights all the way down to 11.25" just to test out some theories. It sure is true that if you dump the bb height you get an amazing amount of lateral grip, more front wheel grip than you have ever had in your life. Mr. HAB can confirm that. When you go to low in the bb department and you start to loose your snap. At least for me when the bb gets too low it's wicked hard to manual.
I did the same thing with the CS length as the bb height. Go way too far and then work my way back. The stays are short as the stays need to be to manual well enough while long enough that your first straight full-tilt-pull power-wheelie tendencies are kept in check and your front tire scars the earth as dirt is flung into the eyes of those who dare challenge you.

Overall It's designed from the ground up to rip corners, scrub jumps and session loamy corners. Just enough bmx to... well, race bmx but deep in it's heart it's hoping for a sand pit to do bermshots in with some beers and bros on a Thursday night.
This is the right geometry for someone with a good snap and a DH oriented riding style more than it is for someone with a heavily bmx influenced style. background. The critera for bb height was the lowest you can go and still have good speed jumping ability on the track. It likes mid rise 30" handlebars and a 180mm front rotor. Fast! It'll still be pretty sweet for the trails. Especially big, scary **** that I'd never think about doing in my life.

The next size down has shorter stays, higher bb, shorter fork length and toptube. We've been tweaking the geometry on those for 4 years or so. It's much more of a trails bike, more pop, more pump, fits a smaller transition. Pump track machine. It's too small for me but the more FMB-style cats totally dig it. I feel a little crunched up trying to ride it at race speeds, but people who shred a little harder than me slay it.
 

ZoRo

Turbo Monkey
Sep 28, 2004
1,225
8
Montréal, PQ
Thanks for the details Mickey,

I can see your point on ISCG tabs, but the ones on my Yeti have been sturdy and line up the chainguide perfectly each time. Although it wouldn't be much of chore to sandwich the boomrang instead. Since anyways, bikes like that aren't meant to be banged downhill like a DH bike.

For the geo numbers, IMHO a 12.5bb is a good number to aim for. Again, the geo on the new DJ is spot on for turning gates and the lowish bb contributes greatly to that feeling.

Would a large frame be suitable with 80mm fork? I guess it could be raced cruiser class in some BMX races if you crank down the weight down low around 22-23lbs. (I race my Yeti in cruiser class and it's about 25lbs, but could def see an advantage to having a lighter bike, espacially for the snap)

Great to see people dedicated to small bikes. Now you only need to make short travel FS slalom bike with DW. Now I would lay down money for that!!
 

SuspectDevice

Turbo Monkey
Aug 23, 2002
3,944
35
Roanoke, VA
I personally wouldn't want to lower the travel to race BMX on it. If I wanted to race a bmx bike I'd race my 20". Use the stability and length to your advantage and pedal where the other guys are jumping, grab 3 gears off of the gate, scrub like there's no tomrrow and generally brrrap around the track.
I used to race the heck out of this geometry on our old tight indoor track and it's not like i had 17 experts trying to tuck in inside me in the money opens. If they did I could lean on them harder than they could lean on me.
But:
I like a longer fork length more than I care about travel. From my slalom bike to my XC bike I ride my forks rock hard. Does not move hard. Therefore I pump my forks up to about 170psi depending on brand and re-valve the damn things to have enough damping at such a high springrate. Before we started running x-fusion stuff that I we could easily tune my friends and I rarely rode forks that weren't broken. If you lower the a2c 30mm you're going to change the pedaling characteristics of the bike a bit. Some dw-esque physics bull**** can get inserted here, blah blah.
My personal riding style on a bmx track works really, really well with a 110~120mm fork. At most it moves 30mm unless I case stuff. To keep a shorter fork that stiff I'd have to run a phenomenally high spring rate, the scary sort of springrate that makes you lose an eye. The extra front center is nice to have out there sideways at high speed and it keeps you behind the bars, not on your face!
If someone wanted to use a shorter fork I assume that they'd tell me and I would tweak the dimension in the drawing. I'd suggest that they ride something shorter, higher and just a hair slacker with the shorter forklength. Ratios bro, ratios.


Zoro- btw,
If you want to lay down about $10,000 I'd me more than happy to sell you a FS slalom bike! It's been fully engineered and ready to go for 3 years now. Capitalism. I'm not good at it.
 

ZoRo

Turbo Monkey
Sep 28, 2004
1,225
8
Montréal, PQ
I personally wouldn't want to lower the travel to race BMX on it. If I wanted to race a bmx bike I'd race my 20". Use the stability and length to your advantage and pedal where the other guys are jumping, grab 3 gears off of the gate, scrub like there's no tomrrow and generally brrrap around the track.
I used to race the heck out of this geometry on our old tight indoor track and it's not like i had 17 experts trying to tuck in inside me in the money opens. If they did I could lean on them harder than they could lean on me.
But:
I like a longer fork length more than I care about travel. From my slalom bike to my XC bike I ride my forks rock hard. Does not move hard. Therefore I pump my forks up to about 170psi depending on brand and re-valve the damn things to have enough damping at such a high springrate. Before we started running x-fusion stuff that I we could easily tune my friends and I rarely rode forks that weren't broken. If you lower the a2c 30mm you're going to change the pedaling characteristics of the bike a bit. Some dw-esque physics bull**** can get inserted here, blah blah.
My personal riding style on a bmx track works really, really well with a 110~120mm fork. At most it moves 30mm unless I case stuff. To keep a shorter fork that stiff I'd have to run a phenomenally high spring rate, the scary sort of springrate that makes you lose an eye. The extra front center is nice to have out there sideways at high speed and it keeps you behind the bars, not on your face!
If someone wanted to use a shorter fork I assume that they'd tell me and I would tweak the dimension in the drawing. I'd suggest that they ride something shorter, higher and just a hair slacker with the shorter forklength. Ratios bro, ratios.


Zoro- btw,
If you want to lay down about $10,000 I'd me more than happy to sell you a FS slalom bike! It's been fully engineered and ready to go for 3 years now. Capitalism. I'm not good at it.

MMmmm interesting stuff. Hey, once I hit winning loto numbers, I call you straight away!!! Sucks these FS slalom bike are such a niche market, they make for incredibly fun all around rippers + really good racing machines.

Kinda like the Nicolai that some people posted on the DH forum. Bike looks killer + adjustable geo but price is prohibitive.

Anyway, I get what you mean about running a rock hard fork. For racing on a bmx track, I typically use my Fox F100 with a shi*load of air in it or I simply switch on the lockout. But having a lower bike, IMHO, helps staying real low when racing against cruisers and 20's. You go BLopes low on the jumps and pump the heck out of them. People tend to think that 26ers are slower on the track but the (relative)slowness you get of the gate is regained when momentum kicks in. Makes for good fun and angry looks from the typical cruiser guys!!

Good thing we are talking small race hardtails on here. I care much more about them than other type of bikes, but as I said, it's such a niche market that it rarely pops up in the interwebz discussions.

To continue the Nicolai theme, this bike looks slammed and low, but I don't want to hijack a thread originally about your bikes!! (Post pictures of completes, I know I remember seing a couple them floating around on the DH forum a year or two ago)

 
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SuspectDevice

Turbo Monkey
Aug 23, 2002
3,944
35
Roanoke, VA
The only pictures that I have are two of the last gen bikes with the dumped bb heights. Turned so well. Incredibly fast and stable on full on DH tracks. The little one jumped pretty well if you are strong as hell. The medium one had absolutely no pop. Both pedaled like sh4T. I keep one of the medium frames around at all times because there just isn't a bike that is better for racing on a track where cornering is the #1 priority. I lend the small one out to people to show them just how ****ty their current bike actually rides. Interestingly enough I ended up running 40mm risex30" bars on the big bike. More pop, better weight distribution. I hadn't expected that

medium

small


A good visual tutorial as to the intended riding style of each bike:
Medium

Small

The longer bike is so much easier to keep on the ground. You can pound your fists into the transitions with confidence.
Interestingly enough I ended up running 40mm risex30" bars on the big bike. More pop, better weight distribution, easier to get under the paint I hadn't expected that, but my riding style is pretty... Lopes-y. I've always ridden my best with dropped elbows.
 

ZoRo

Turbo Monkey
Sep 28, 2004
1,225
8
Montréal, PQ
What's your take on the full suspension bike vs hardtail in a slalom race? Fs better for cornering on flat and offcamber?? At least that's what I would tend to think and experimented on my Ndiza vs DJ. Thing is with hardtail they gain momentum so quick and then you hold on for deAr life!
 
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kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
22,262
1,955
In my pants
We built protos with bb heights all the way down to 11.25" just to test out some theories. It sure is true that if you dump the bb height you get an amazing amount of lateral grip, more front wheel grip than you have ever had in your life. Mr. HAB can confirm that. When you go to low in the bb department and you start to loose your snap.
The BB height on my current hardtail sits between 11" and 11.2" depending on tires.

That's mostly the number I was concerned about.

Glad to know you've already jigged one up :D
 

SuspectDevice

Turbo Monkey
Aug 23, 2002
3,944
35
Roanoke, VA
They definitely seem to be love or hate.
My hatred for those run deep, or is it that flattery is the greatest form of respect?

The p-series started as the P3, named after the big tittie ladies that used to be on page three of the Sun(damn your murdoch!).

They had to come up with something to salvage their UK sales since the ball we'd set rolling with the Metalhead was pretty much unstoppable.
I'm pissed that they tried to foist such an ugly piece of sh!t on consumers.


Those bikes didn't need to be that ugly. At all.

The new bikes look worlds better, but I just don't dig the ride.
 

fro biker

Monkey
Oct 18, 2006
162
0
in the sticks
I'm thinking 15" CS, 12" BB, 65-66* HA, 23.5" TT. Long and Low.
There's another question I know you and I have thrown around...HA's. Thoughts on the subject? For me, back in the day I used to run my fork tall (in the travel adj) on my DNA and the thing was wicked raked. It was lots of fun. Also, as I've said before, but I'll say it again: I think it is faaaaantastic that you have this niche covered and ready to deliver. Someone had to light the fire again.
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
22,262
1,955
In my pants
The p-series started as the P3, named after the big tittie ladies that used to be on page three of the Sun(damn your murdoch!).
Really? I didn't know that. That's kind of awesome. I've got a pee one though so it's all boring headlines.





Come on man.....you should know that's not the bike I'm riding. That's like bringing up some of the weird bikes that have spooky on the downtube but haven't been made in 8 years. ;)


Seriously though.....I'm into those low BBs. No one makes them anymore. Specialized is making the same frame as everyone else now. Let me figure out my snowmobile purchases this fall and I may want to get a bike from you. Just a straight up dirtjumper though, nothing too weird. Thanks for all the info.
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
10,582
886
Seattle
The only pictures that I have are two of the last gen bikes with the dumped bb heights. Turned so well. Incredibly fast and stable on full on DH tracks. The little one jumped pretty well if you are strong as hell. The medium one had absolutely no pop. Both pedaled like sh4T.

medium
That's the one I rode. Exactly the same impression as you. Railed corners, but I couldn't jump it worth **** (probably at least half my fault :D) and if I tried pedaling it I felt like I had my knees up around my ears.
 

mexMan

Chimp
Jun 27, 2011
64
0
medium


A good visual tutorial as to the intended riding style of each bike:
Medium


The longer bike is so much easier to keep on the ground. You can pound your fists into the transitions with confidence.
Interestingly enough I ended up running 40mm risex30" bars on the big bike. More pop, better weight distribution, easier to get under the paint I hadn't expected that, but my riding style is pretty... Lopes-y. I've always ridden my best with dropped elbows.
I'm feeling my bike too heavy, how heavy is yours?
 

don

Turbo Monkey
Nov 8, 2001
1,321
0
Rumson, NJ
Really? I didn't know that. That's kind of awesome. I've got a pee one though so it's all boring headlines.


Never knew that about the P3 but not surprised Mickey knew about it. He is the most knowledgeable guy in the biz - and in every discipline too.
 

SuspectDevice

Turbo Monkey
Aug 23, 2002
3,944
35
Roanoke, VA
MexMan-
My race bike is usually around 22 pounds with carbon wheels. With "normal beater wheels" King hubs,mavic tubeless xc rims ~24 pounds. That's with really expensive parts. With full SLX and decent parts the bike would still be around 25 pounds.

Extreme light weight is dumb, I have lots of light stuff because I sponsor xc and road racers and I snag their castoffs, etc.
I'd buy a full SLX group if i was starting from scratch. Except bars and rims everything you run on a race bike can be xc race stuff.

I broke my hand last Sunday and it has me even more stoked for nationals. It's going to force me to work hard in the gym and that's going to help me screw my head down tight instead of solely relying on my stoked-ness. DS is 80% mental if you're already a good bike rider. My orthoopedic guy is rad and my co-pay is only $10 so we are planning on working together a few times a week to work out my back too.

SO STOKED.
 

SuspectDevice

Turbo Monkey
Aug 23, 2002
3,944
35
Roanoke, VA
seriously? any more to this story?
PlanetX, Identiti, Kona, Raleigh, Saracen, made near exact copies. There were probably a dozen no-name frames in the ads too. DMR started making frames then too but those guys are legit. Gross esponses like the p3 popped up everywhere from B1 to Bianchi. We started to make a cheaper frame called the Bandwagon to make light of the situation. The graphics had a copy machine on them.
Look at all of the sketchy xc frames in issue 7 of Dirt and then look at issue 10. You'll see it straight away The PlanetX was an exact copy ffs!

We also had the Eastcoast Hardcore DIY authenticity going for us. FTW is lionized over there as OG Yeti and the fact that we were building bikes for Kink, T1, Metal, FBM, 2hip, K2 and Schwinn gave us some more cred on top of how rad the Metalhead was. The editors of Dirt and RideBMX loved us. We had coverage in UK music and fashion mags, Spin and XXL in the US and buyout and partnership offers from Smith&Wesson(!), ZooYork and Rockstar video games.
We were big in Japan!
The UK has been nuts for jumps since day 1.

Right place, right product, right image, right time.
 

jonKranked

Press Button, Receive Stupid
Nov 10, 2005
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PlanetX, Identiti, Kona, Raleigh, Saracen, made near exact copies. There were probably a dozen no-name frames in the ads too. DMR started making frames then too but those guys are legit. Gross esponses like the p3 popped up everywhere from B1 to Bianchi. We started to make a cheaper frame called the Bandwagon to make light of the situation. The graphics had a copy machine on them.
Look at all of the sketchy xc frames in issue 7 of Dirt and then look at issue 10. You'll see it straight away The PlanetX was an exact copy ffs!

We also had the Eastcoast Hardcore DIY authenticity going for us. FTW is lionized over there as OG Yeti and the fact that we were building bikes for Kink, T1, Metal, FBM, 2hip, K2 and Schwinn gave us some more cred on top of how rad the Metalhead was. The editors of Dirt and RideBMX loved us. We had coverage in UK music and fashion mags, Spin and XXL in the US and buyout and partnership offers from Smith&Wesson(!), ZooYork and Rockstar video games.
We were big in Japan!
The UK has been nuts for jumps since day 1.

Right place, right product, right image, right time.
that's pretty wild. i had no idea how big spooky was, that was before my time, or at least before i was really aware of what was going on industry wise.


seriously dude. write a book.
 

don

Turbo Monkey
Nov 8, 2001
1,321
0
Rumson, NJ
that's pretty wild. i had no idea how big spooky was, that was before my time, or at least before i was really aware of what was going on industry wise.


seriously dude. write a book.
Spooky had some seriously good sh1t going back in the late 90's. I am not sure how "big" they were but they were creating some slick stuff for the time. They brought this DIY/punkrock thing to mtn biking that had people either shaking their head or raising their fists. I still remember vividly their product tosses at Mt. Snow that was more like a Hatebreed show than a XC Mtb race. I am sure Mickey could write a TON on that whole era. And I think he was only like 15 or so at the time too which is pretty nutty.
 

ZoRo

Turbo Monkey
Sep 28, 2004
1,225
8
Montréal, PQ
MexMan-
My race bike is usually around 22 pounds with carbon wheels. With "normal beater wheels" King hubs,mavic tubeless xc rims ~24 pounds. That's with really expensive parts. With full SLX and decent parts the bike would still be around 25 pounds.
What fork are you running to achieve the 22 barrier? Edge wheels?
 

SuspectDevice

Turbo Monkey
Aug 23, 2002
3,944
35
Roanoke, VA
What fork are you running to achieve the 22 barrier? Edge wheels?
Xfusion Velvet RL tapered qr15. Such a badass piece of equipment.

The Edge/enve wheels on king hubs are light but wicked strong. Not all that much lighter than the stuff laced to Stans flows though...

The bikes that wc 4x racers are riding are all around the same weight. Graves's bike usually gets down to about 21lbs for worlds, for instance.

Add 1-1.5 pounds to an xc race hardtail. boom!
 

jonKranked

Press Button, Receive Stupid
Nov 10, 2005
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Xfusion Velvet RL tapered qr15. Such a badass piece of equipment.

The Edge/enve wheels on king hubs are light but wicked strong. Not all that much lighter than the stuff laced to Stans flows though...

The bikes that wc 4x racers are riding are all around the same weight. Graves's bike usually gets down to about 21lbs for worlds, for instance.

Add 1-1.5 pounds to an xc race hardtail. boom!
how's that book coming?