[- seb]

I've run CX-rays in the past, and don't recall having a bad word to say against them. Except that is, for the price.

I'm about to build a new set of wheels, and am currently decided on the CX-ray spokes again. Non-weight-weenies will scoff, but on a pair of wheels you save 94g by using CX-ray versus "regular" DT Competition spokes. "Only" 0.2lb I know, but all the little bits add up.

Anyway, that's not the point of this thread.

The point is, do we actually believe that CX rays are any stronger/better than DT revolutions? The weight is near identical, they're both made of steel, and the cross-sectional area is about the same.

So, does the bladed shape of CX-rays give them extra strength? Or is that just for questionable aerodymanics? One clear benefit of CX-rays is that you can see any wind-up as you build, so can build very tight quite easily. The 1.5mm revolutions will tend to twist, and be hard to spot.

But that shouldn't put off someone with a bit of time and dedication to do a decent job.


Anyone have some highly technical knowledge on the subject?

- seb

(CX rays are roughly twice the cost of DT revolutions)

 

[TheMontashu]

If I remember correctly the CX-rays are rated for DH, the revolutions are not.

 

[- seb]

You're correct. But I'm not really interested in what the manufacturer says - if both spokes were made by the same company and one were rated for DH and others not, I might listen, but in this case you can't compare since they're different companies.

 

[jvnixon]

If you can afford it i'd go with the CX-ray's. Its easier to see windup and you can hold the spoke easier when building them. I've had good very good luck with them but as you say, they're $$$.

 

[davep]

what the heck does that ^^ mean?? Will they warranty them if they break???


I honestly cannot see how they could be much difference in tensile strength or elasticity (given the same cross section). They are both stainless and they are both cold worked/forged (yes there are many different types, but to get much diff in these strength parameters, you generally need to add carbon, leaving you with something that is stain-resistant, rather that truely SS....not what sapim is doing) ,

so unless sapim has some super secret steel recipe.....

I have run revos a bit on a DH bike and they held up fine...seemed like they had a bit more flex than say competitions. This was a few years ago as I was getting into DH and the wheels were migrating to bigger and bigger bikes...comming off a more trail bike set up the rims were not that beefy..running smaller, lighter tires, so I dont think I can blame it all on the spokes.

Wind-up was a bit of a pain with the spokes (worse on the road bike with longer spokes) but it can be delt with if you (who ever is building) pays attention.

I have done a bit of differential spoking (thicker spokes in higher tension areas) and that seems to be a great comprimise in my book. IIRC, you are building a 150 rear, so that may negate some of the tension issue (a good bit of 150 hubs are not actually zero dish), but if you have a tendancy to put your rear mech/chain into the spokes, it might make sense to use something like competitions on the drive side rear...lighter spokes everywhere else.

 

[- seb]

I NEVER put my mech/chain into my spokes, due to the short chaingrowth of a DHi, a super-short dura-ace rear mech and running my chain as tight as possible. My 150mm hub is indeed a dishless one, so would be equal tensions on the back at least.

I'll probably go CX-ray because I've used them before and it'd be a lot of money AND effort to build up EX823 wheels (****ing nipple inserts) only to decide that I needed to start again cos the DT Revs aren't up to it...

 

[frango]

I am about to build new wheelset for my new Glory. I will have Hopes Pro II, Dartmoor Raider (local brand, light, very cheap and pretty strong) http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/umg.php?m=103 and DT Revolution spokes.
I used to ride Pro II, Mavics EN321 and Competitions.
I am quite light guy (65-70 with gear), I ride pretty smooth, I don't plow, I don't go big air.
A friend told me, that wheels build with Revolutions may be a bit flexy... what do You think about it?
Thx in advance for advice.

 

[NoUseForAName]

IIRC the cx rays dont vary in thickness like the rev? It's been a while since i built with cxrs so i may be wrong.
This alone would make a difference for strength.

The only annoying thing i found about cxrs was they only came in packs of 20, have they changed that yet?

 

[frango]

Well, I think they do, as they are flat...
But, my question rather is, whether Revolutions will do the trick?

 

[tatankainlondon]

Seb,
Where are you going to source your CX-Rays?

 

[- seb]

Oooh, old thread! I went with DT supercomps in the end. I've used CX-rays in the past, and liked them, but they were too pricey for me when I built these wheels.

 

[tatankainlondon]

Good point, I have not looked at the date of your initial post.

 

[frango]

Oooh, old thread! I went with DT supercomps in the end. I've used CX-rays in the past, and liked them, but they were too pricey for me when I built these wheels.

- seb, would You use Revolutions if You were me?

 

[- seb]

Never tried them, can't really comment, sorry!

 

[frango]

OK, understood.
But I think I finally made my decision
Sapims are too expensive and building is tricky.
Revolutions are expensive and probably for strong enough.
Super Comps are quite expensive, but stronger than Revs.
...and finally Competitions with brass or alu nipples... good price, good strength.

My wheels should weight 2010-2050g/set.

 

[tatankainlondon]

CX-Ray are actully super easy to use - you can see the spoke twisting and with that plastic sapim spoke holder you can have them bang on straight.
I used to have custom built wheels with cx-rays and a wheelbuilder told me that because you can see them twisting you can easily set them correct. With a round spoke you cannot see it that easily.

I must agree on the price though - very very expensive. However, if you really want to see uber-expensive spokes, look at DT Swiss Aerolites in white - something like 5GBP here in the UK - craaaazzzzzzzzyyyyyyyyyyyy

 

[- seb]

CX-Ray are actully super easy to use - you can see the spoke twisting and with that plastic sapim spoke holder you can have them bang on straight.
I used to have custom built wheels with cx-rays and a wheelbuilder told me that because you can see them twisting you can easily set them correct. With a round spoke you cannot see it that easily.

Agreed. I didn't have the tool, or want to spend money on it, so I just cut a slot into the handle of an old screwdriver with a hacksaw and used that

 

[DirtyMike]

OK, understood.
But I think I finally made my decision
Sapims are too expensive and building is tricky.
Revolutions are expensive and probably for strong enough.
Super Comps are quite expensive, but stronger than Revs.
...and finally Competitions with brass or alu nipples... good price, good strength.

My wheels should weight 2010-2050g/set.

I, would not use the revos for DH. Not that they are week, but they will be flexy. There is no doubt about that, you feel it when you ride it. Done it before.

I like using the DT champion spokes for my drive sides at least, well for my fat ass, I tend to use them all around but thats another topic, I like a regular 14G spoke for my drivesides for the same reason DaveP mentioned when the thread was new, never know when your going to bend a hanger and put a derailleur into the wheel.

If your looking for light, then your looking to spend money, there is just no way around it. CX-rays are good, DT superchamps are good, Hell dt champs are good, but for DH, the revos will be just too flexy. Its quite noticable, even for the lite guys.




EDIT...... for the Nipples, what wheel are you using? Generally youll want Brass for DH wheel, as it tends to now shear off. But wheels with an eyelet work better for alloy.

 

[frango]

The rim I am going to use, is local product/brand. I has eyelets, of course.
The thing is, that I have never torn a nipple from the rim, never broke a spoke or caught r.der. into spokes.
I have been using my last wheelset for two years. Mavics EN321 were a bit worn our, so I was going to swith them for Dartmoors. But, as my bike has been stolen, I had to build new set. Actually, the way I planned it before. The only question was spokes.
I chose the safest option.

 

[DirtyMike]

Well if they are eyeletted, you should be ok with alloy then.

 

[-dustin]

Having built a set of XC wheels with DT Aerolites (same as CXRays), I'm kind of surprised that they're so popular. I always thought my XC wheels flexed a little too much in turns (Arch rim, I9 hubs). Granted, I never tried a different tire, but damn...while they spun up quickly, I thought that they gave a little too much when not going straight.

 

[OBB]

I'm currently using DT Revolution spokes on my DH bike, and have used the same spokes on all my personal wheel builds.

Strength wise, I can find no fault with them. I've been going 4 months strong on my Demo with hopes/stan's flow/rev wheels and they're still in amazing shape. Yes Revs can be flexy, but only because the wheel is incorrectly tensioned. Revolution spokes will stretch after a few rides, every ride, once the wheels are built. After the stretching period is over, the wheel can be tensioned properly to withstand the rigors of racing or a summer full of whistler laps down garbonzo.

Spoke windup is only an issue on incorrectly lubricated spokes/nipples, and improperly built wheels. The builder must relieve the spoke stress after every few revolutions to combat spoke windup, much easier than building a wheel with bladed spokes where every spoke must be attended to with a small spoke tool.

To be fair, there are some people out there that are hard on wheels. This is not a weight issue, but rather a riding style issue where some riders really like to monster truck every and anything.

I will be building up the exact same wheelset for a friend who's around 200lbs, and have full confidence that he'll be happy for a while with the wheels.

 

[frango]

Hmm, that's makes me think about Revs, again

 

[Jonny5]

try the poor mans revos, wheelsmith ae14s or ae15s. Not sure about them on a rear wheel though, flex is noticeable.

 

[DirtyMike]

While I absolutly agree about tension.....Revos even at proper tension flex like a bitch on a DH wheel. There is no getting around them being flexy.... that give they have is exactly why they flex.


Ok you want light wheels.

Do this, 14guage champs for the drive side rear
14/15 comps for the non drive side
Super comps for the front.


No prolock nipples, those cause Mad wind up.

just use regular brass nipples, lube the threads of the spoke, lube the contact points on the nipple......lots of ways to go about this, sometimes I like to use tenacious oil, sometimes I will use linseed oil. when your done, little spoke freeze, and life is good

 

[norbar]

I'm currently using DT Revolution spokes on my DH bike, and have used the same spokes on all my personal wheel builds.

Strength wise, I can find no fault with them. I've been going 4 months strong on my Demo with hopes/stan's flow/rev wheels and they're still in amazing shape. Yes Revs can be flexy, but only because the wheel is incorrectly tensioned. Revolution spokes will stretch after a few rides, every ride, once the wheels are built. After the stretching period is over, the wheel can be tensioned properly to withstand the rigors of racing or a summer full of whistler laps down garbonzo.

Spoke windup is only an issue on incorrectly lubricated spokes/nipples, and improperly built wheels. The builder must relieve the spoke stress after every few revolutions to combat spoke windup, much easier than building a wheel with bladed spokes where every spoke must be attended to with a small spoke tool.

To be fair, there are some people out there that are hard on wheels. This is not a weight issue, but rather a riding style issue where some riders really like to monster truck every and anything.

I will be building up the exact same wheelset for a friend who's around 200lbs, and have full confidence that he'll be happy for a while with the wheels.

Was the same in my case but I use them with hope/823 combo. I'm very hard on wheels and I regulaly run too low pressures and so far they hold.