[bullcrew]

This is an information thread, being as its hard to find info on these tires here in the US for DH purposes.
They apparently have FR, Enduro, All MTN and XC locked up with some pretty great tires and now they are working harder on the DH line in the last year or so!

Now I have a period of time on the Muddy Mary and in like conditions loose over hard they performed better than my maxxis minion DHF 3cs did at the park (corners, berms). I have rode them in wet/mud and dry pack dirt so far and im impressed!

I have rode the big bettys as well asn currently getting ready to run the black shark muds. I have no complaints so far as far as these tires adn designes are concerned. They all have a purpose and they all do it WELL.
I like Maxxis so this is not a hater thread!!!!!!!!!

I am not easy on tires or rims and with my weight and point and shoot style I will work them out! Someday Ill learn to finess! LMAO

I will have more info as soon as the German side of things are back in the office next week. Jeff at Schwalbe North America in Canada was nice enough to supply me this info as well as a basic of the durometers of the rubber. I should have more info regarding the duro and reason behind it.

Plus they look D@MN good!

Gooey Gluey: 52 Durometer
Triple Compound: 52 sides 60 center ? something else (sorry dont have the info yet on the triple!

Pictures and descriptions oftechnology relating to mainly the DH/FR stuff:
Black Shark Mud:
For competition in deep mud conditions. Small, high lugs and a sturdy rubber compound provide outstanding grip on soft ground. In the narrow version less dirt can accumulate, so the weight of the rotary mass remains small - a clear advantage in races. Size 26 x 2.25 (57-559) with a Double Casing is suitable for Freeride and Downhill competition.

Heres tread pics and weights, sizes are 2.1 and 2.25 they are Heavy duty casings so they are between a single ply and a DH casing. The one thing i have noticed is all Schwalbes even the fr version have better sidewalls then kenda and theres no leaking through the sidewalls when going tubeless! These BTW pumped up with a little topeak 9 in 1 novelty pump, took a long time but seated right away!

They are not ramped or directional they are a true mud spike for the nastiest of stuff out there!

They are tubeless (stans) set up, seat really easy and thick sidewalls that dont spew or pop and hiss!!!!

Across:

Mounted close:

Now heres the weights of them: remember these are heavy duty casings as well. They have ones lighter than these in single plys as well as a 1.5 size!!!

26X2.1

26X2.25

Muddy Mary:
The aggressive intermediate profile grips firmly on any terrain. The SnakeSkin sidewall saves weight without losing stability, while our Triple Compound gives Muddy Mary the optimal combination of easy rolling, durability and cornering grip. The extremely ‘sticky’ competition compound, Gooey Gluey, has for the first time been paired with a flexible underbody that achieves an acceptable rolling resistance.

Muddy mary close:

Muddy mary 26X2.5 triple nano DH casing 1245g

Muddy Mary FR 26x2.35 855g (this 2.35 is a smidgen heavier than a single ply Kenda or maxxis 2.5 but also a bit thicker sidewalls so its more durable as well)

Muddy Mary UST 2.35 1042g (sidewalls are thicker than the other UST tires they offer)

Big Betty:
Just Freeride, no cosmetics. The large volume and HEAVY DUTY features make BIG BETTY really tough. The tread is optimized for braking performance and steering. Even so these qualities do not make it too heavy for uphill. Betty can also have a soft side - with super-soft Gooey Gluey Compound.

Big Betty 26x2.4 UST 946g The one pictured below (mounted on rim) came in at 921g

BIG BETTY UST mounted on Mavic 823 UST rim. It aired up with a silly little 8 n 1 hand pump!! Super easy to inflate.

Technology and Information

Information provided by Schwalbe NA today via email!


Triple Nano Compound.
A completely revised nano-sized polymer
base and fillers has made our triple compound even better.
The filler particles that were formerly 200 nanometers in size now
measure a mere 10 nanometers, or 0.00000001 M. This reduction
has two crucial advantages: 1. The internal friction within the
rubber is reduced, lowering rolling resistance. 2. More, smaller
particles have much more surface area than few larger ones
meaning the contact area is greater that results in improved grip.
Result: An outstanding all-round compound that we use it in the
tread center. Beneath this lies the base compound that is light
and easy rolling, while the tire shoulders have the now legendary
grippy compound.

SnakeSkin
Light and flexible fabric layer on the side wall.
Makes tires almost impervious to sidewall
defects. One of our most effective inventions for Mountainbikes.
SnakeSkin fabric adds only ca. 40-50 g per tire. This makes it the
most practical protection against sharp rocks that can easily cut the
side wall of light racing tires. SnakeSkin - in rocky terrain it is a great
call!

U-Blocks
Shoulder lugs with a half-open design.
Arranged in a way that defies logic – it looks
so different to a conventional arrangement
because it is completely opposite! But UBlocks
‘lift’ themselves up during cornering
and so counter the tendency of the tire to step
out in curves. During inclined cornering when
the tire shoulder is fully loaded it has un -
mistakably more control. The surprising effect:
Less under steer, more stability – “controlled“
cornering!

EVO-Carcass
Steeper angle of carcass threads. It provides
the essential structure of the tire, increasing
flexibility and reducing rolling resistance.
Much more difficult and complex to make
than a regular carcass.

Limited Slip Technology (L.S.T.)
The tire bead has a special rubber layer, which
clearly reduces tire slip on the rim. This danger
is particularly exacerbated during violent braking
(in extreme cases causing valve tear off).
Our tires stick - to the ground and the rim!

Freeride Version (On Muddy Mary / Big Betty):
Freeride uses: Snakeskin, Snake Bite, Triple Nano or Gooey Gluey Compound and Limited Slip Technology (LST).

Gooey Gluey.
Best control on stony ground and wet
conditions from the super-grippy Gooey-Gluey
compound.

Downhill:
The extra-strong Downhill version. It has all
of the Freeride features plus a double carcass
and particularly strong Snake Bite protection.
It all adds up to more stability at the lowest
pressure.

TUBES: For tubed or Ghetto
I dont know who else makes them like this but I was excited as I needed some spare victim tubes to cut down to do quick tubeless set ups. Unfortunently all i could find was the rubber schrader valve style so when i go to hook up the pump they push back in or they rotate or both and sometimes angle. Not that this is a major issue just a pain.

NOW this is not because its SCHWALBE!!! Just happens I saw them and had been looking for a good tube for along time!

They make threaded schrader valve tubes with brass collets to rim contact and screw down threaded nut to hold them in place. Usually its 26" or 24" tires DH casings I see them on. With them its all sizes 18/20/24/26 and they even have DH 20" tubes. I dont BMX or ride 20" but thats definently unique.

This is just a helpfull bit, I lhavent scoured the ends of the earth to find these just most shops told me they dont make em. So it was nice to find out.

The tube pictured is a reg tube the box below is a HD tube. a 20" HD tube at that!

 

[RMboy]

Cheers for that bud, i have always liked the look of there stuff.. Its nice to see another tyre company instead of maxxis for a change. (even thought maxxis are very very good)

i know it sounds crazy but i had a set of there tubes, and they lasted for ever.. Like most german things!!;-)

 

[BmxConvert]

I keep looking at these tires in the BTI catolog thinking to myself I should order a set to try them out. Being I'm a tire whore I still have 6 brand new tire sets to try out still once my bike gets back. I think I could make it 7 sets. 3 dh wheelsets each with one set of tires mounted and spending 2 weeks(riding DH every day) on each set after should give me a good idea on how Intense, Tioga, Michelin, Maxxis, Kenda, WTB and Schwalbe compare in wet, slick on hardpack, rocks, loose dirt. I think I'll order a set up and try it out. If BTI listed the Black Shark Mud I'd do a comparison with the Wet Screams, Black Turtles, Mud X and Black Shark Mud.

-Kevin

 

[bullcrew]

MUD UPDATE! Muddy Marys.
I took them out as the snow 6"+ melted overnight making for some super slick thick gooey clay mud! Walking on any sort of incline is damn near impossible as your foot sinks 2-3" in and squirms towards and decline! However riding was WAY BETTER than I initially thought!
When i first rode the muddy mary in some mud i had a almighty on the rear (low profile pedaling.brake tire) and it hooked but not stellar! I have however rode my minions in this brown POO before and they worked better than the nevegals which made me happy! Yes the minions slid and were back and forth on the trail as well as when cornering the bike would start to pack and wash out making you slow and gett rid of any lean you have to keep the weight vertical to the ground!

The Muddy Marys hooked up, now in this stuff Id have prefered a black shark 2.1 mud tire specifically but the Muddy mary did WAY BETTER than my past tire choices in this stuff! In corners I could actually start to lean and lay the bike more horizontal on a flatter muddy corner as well as I had to pop the rear sideways to get it to slide out and even at that it still hooked up right off the bat! I did not do any drifting, I did some sliding and they were throwing so much mud on corners and straights cleaning themselves it was as if it was full traction all the time. I found that when I slowed to take a pic that over 3/4's of the tread still shed mud even at lower speeds!
I did not ride are courses just the single tracks coming off the hills for speed and corners, I did pedal up and they were fine. ALOT less rolling resistance in the rear and when I hit the parking lot I was laying the bike over hard to see if i got any outer lug folding or washing and none that I could tell. On pavement they rode great, there was less rolling resistance or sticking to the ground then the kenda StickEs or 3c minions had and they felt easier to pedal even with a bigger profile!

Conclusion: Even with this tire being out of its element in this thick and nasty of mud it performed above expectations and held lines really well. Had little to no side to side washy feeling and it shed the mud right off the bat! So I can say without a doubt that they perform on mud really well, there are better tire choices for this (mud/goo) but they are MUD specific tires!

Start of ride out by gate, mud is thin but slick and packing.

Gumbo mud, almost wiped out several times gtting off the bike here didnt realize it was that slick. The bike was hooking up so well I figured it couldnt be that bad! Wrong it was nasty slick and thick!

BTW the big blob of mud this side of the bike is 1 foot rpint that I couldnt get a footing without sliding and falling on my face. It literally was safer riding the bike.

heres my bbuddy Bobby Root doing a 75'+ jump riding big bettys

Update on muddy marys front rear from sat ride!
Didnt get any action pics but the ride up was 2600'+ and the ride down was muddy/snow/ICE/wet grass/cow poo and some fast single track with alot of rocks and doll heads all over the trail so it was a good fast run with unpredictable stuff and limited visabillity at times. they cornered well in drifts and high speed swooping corners as well sa flat. They handled rocks 8" jagged dollheads ets and rock chutes well. The suspension was spot on, a little softer on the way down but reacted as my big bike does for DH just real smooth and absorbing. So it was up to tires after tah for hooking up!

Tire choice could not have been better, I rode the Muddy Marys (schwalbe) 2.35 rear and a 2.5 front hooked up, I blew through a corner with my 34 tooth maxxed out and it was wet, muddy grass going into snow and ice and the tires didnt break free at all. I was on the road for the last little jont it was wet in spots, twisty and chased a dodge pick up down and through the corners maxxed out again and no slipping even had the bike leaned way over and kept the body loading the outside lugs.

Me at the top

Some funk (mud and probably some cow poo in there !

 

[bullcrew]

Updated and pics of moto style mtb tubes are up! Great tubes that are also threaded with a screw collar to hold them down and they come like that for all sizes.

 

[rockwool]

I used the Al Mighty in 2.6" Gooey Gluey as a front and didn't feel quite comfortable with it. Then Pelo gave me a lightly used DHF SR 2.5 and I haven't looked back. They had immensly better grip in corners.

But in 2003 I liked their FR trail tire (forgot its name..), very good grip. Although the sidewalls couldn't handle rocks (pre snakeskin) and their sideknobs came off too easilly (same on the Space). Tell us how your sideknobs are holding up after a while.

Muddy Molly's look interesting, though.

 

[bullcrew]

Yeah the almighty had some shy spots for sure. The big betty is a whole new animal and muddy mary rocks. I've put it through some paces and it hooks up great. I am puttign hte big bettyss on my other wheelset to see how they handle front rear and the other wheelset is Muddy marys so I can swap to a rear BB and a front MM.

Yeah they did address the sidewalls, the snakeskin is tough, like cross stich tear resistant fabric so it wont tear or gash.
The knob issue has been done as well and they aced the almighty line too!

 

[rockwool]

Yeah the almighty had some shy spots for sure. The big betty is a whole new animal and muddy mary rocks. I've put it through some paces and it hooks up great. I am puttign hte big bettyss on my other wheelset to see how they handle front rear and the other wheelset is Muddy marys so I can swap to a rear BB and a front MM.

Yeah they did address the sidewalls, the snakeskin is tough, like cross stich tear resistant fabric so it wont tear or gash.
The knob issue has been done as well and they aced the almighty line too!

A BB in the rear cus a MM gets worn to fast due to too spacy pattern?

Sounds good then.

 

[bullcrew]

Muddy mary UST weight + pic added, they just came in today!
Also got some Fat Albert USTs to try, Ill post pics and an update as they are mainlly a Loose over hard and dry condition tire so Ill need to ride them in Solcal over the next month to get a feel!

 

[in the trees]

Mounted up my Big Betty USTs yesterday. 923g and 956g for all you gram counters. This will be a significant weight loss over the Minions I was running on my do-it-all/only bike.

toby

 

[RUFUS]

Just ordered my Big betty wire beads yesterday, I can't wait to try them out.

Thanks for the info Travis.

 

[bullcrew]

Im glad, I am really excited about them still. I push and they hold so its turning out to be a really exciting run on em! Also explains alot about grip when Root and I ride in Idylwild and why he held the lines ALOT better then I was at same speeds.

 

[Rhubarb]

Bullcrew
I have been tracking your reviews and info on the Schwalbe tyres and I have decided to pick up some and try them out. I have only experience with 2.35"/2.5" Minion Fr in single ply and 2.35"/2.5" High Roller again single ply. All have been in 60A duro. I stopped using the HR cause they wear so fast in the rear but a great tyre. I have always kept the 2.5" up front and I have tried the 2.35" minion DHR out back with great results in speed but a few pinch flats, I would prefer more volume as I ride hardtail or my wildcard with 5" of rear travel so a bit more cushion would be nice. I would stay with a harder duro in the rear but lately my front feels like it could definately go more tacky. I am trying to invest in some 823s but I have to wait on CRC to get them back in stock. They also have limited stock of durometers in single ply maxxis and all the schwalbe tyres.
I am trying to find out about running single ply non UST on both Ghetto and 823 rims. I have outlaws which will go ghetto and of course 823s which would suit a UST tyre better as its just a bit of sealant for plugging up punctures etc. If CRC take too long on restocking 823's I will pick up something like the Halo freedoms as a lite tyre which I have hammered before with good results, so ghetto again. I cant wait forever as I need these tyres and some other parts. The 823s will come in my second order and then I can order some more tyres based on the first set.
I prefer single ply cause of weight and I just dont have the rocks to worry about dual ply. The Schwalbe's have an inbetween casing which sounds perfect. Do you see any issues with MM or BBs with Ghetto or 823 in non UST? Most of my riding here is hardpack which gets a loose layer in summer and then a loose when I head off the main trail into the forest. Would you recommend BB front and rear or go BB rear MM front?
These are currently the options at CRC
MM in freeride S-Skin 2.5 3c at a heafty 1270g
BB in heavy duty 2.4 folding goey gluey
BB in S-Skin 2.4 folding 3c
I will send CRC a mail to see if they plan of stocking a bigger range of Schwalbe.
HAve you had any experience with NN as that was all the rage last year? Wouldnt that make a good fast rolling rear?

 

[tatankainlondon]

Thanks Bullcrew,
This is the info about Schwalbe tyres I was looking for.

 

[Rhubarb]

Just found a thread about stans and Schwalbes, looks like no problems.

 

[NY_Star]

I just got my hands on some of the Team Issue MM. They look sweet but that is all i can say for them. I have not gotten to ride them yet.

 

[bbarson]

Where can I get my hands on the Big Betty UST in the US???

 

[bullcrew]

Bullcrew
I have been tracking your reviews and info on the Schwalbe tyres and I have decided to pick up some and try them out. I have only experience with 2.35"/2.5" Minion Fr in single ply and 2.35"/2.5" High Roller again single ply. All have been in 60A duro. I stopped using the HR cause they wear so fast in the rear but a great tyre. I have always kept the 2.5" up front and I have tried the 2.35" minion DHR out back with great results in speed but a few pinch flats, I would prefer more volume as I ride hardtail or my wildcard with 5" of rear travel so a bit more cushion would be nice. I would stay with a harder duro in the rear but lately my front feels like it could definately go more tacky. I am trying to invest in some 823s but I have to wait on CRC to get them back in stock. They also have limited stock of durometers in single ply maxxis and all the schwalbe tyres.
I am trying to find out about running single ply non UST on both Ghetto and 823 rims. I have outlaws which will go ghetto and of course 823s which would suit a UST tyre better as its just a bit of sealant for plugging up punctures etc. If CRC take too long on restocking 823's I will pick up something like the Halo freedoms as a lite tyre which I have hammered before with good results, so ghetto again. I cant wait forever as I need these tyres and some other parts. The 823s will come in my second order and then I can order some more tyres based on the first set.
I prefer single ply cause of weight and I just dont have the rocks to worry about dual ply. The Schwalbe's have an inbetween casing which sounds perfect. Do you see any issues with MM or BBs with Ghetto or 823 in non UST? Most of my riding here is hardpack which gets a loose layer in summer and then a loose when I head off the main trail into the forest. Would you recommend BB front and rear or go BB rear MM front?
These are currently the options at CRC
MM in freeride S-Skin 2.5 3c at a heafty 1270g
BB in heavy duty 2.4 folding goey gluey
BB in S-Skin 2.4 folding 3c
?

I am running the Muddy marys ghetto tubeless using the schwable tubes (they all have moto threaded schraders) and in freeride version, as well as BB rear and a MM front on the 823s UST as well as a MM front and rear on the Nicolai.

I have a BIG review coming soon about the tires, Im really impressed and they have held up alot. I just need to get some pics and finish the review. It is extensive and complete.

I have rode everyday for the last 4 weeks HARD from the Intense trail, SJT, slaughter house, simpson park, hurkey creek, the playground, webb canyon, fontana nationals, fontana 6th series, (pro expert course), SJT loop and a few others several times..... I have literally been on the bike ripping everyday with the exception of 2 and then the last 3 because of a car accident.

The write up will be too the point and combinations Ive ran.

I find Guey gluey front and triple rear is a good combo as well as a BB rear and a MM front as well as Ive played with different sizes/durometers and combos for different terrain here and then the riding in the wet loamy mud and loose over hard in Idaho will give a pretty good write up. Ive slaughtered rocks here, nasty gardens etc... With great luck I have only had one blow out and it was on the 4th run down the intense trail and i was leaned WAY over on a rock drop into a rock garden on a almost straight down run and gashed it hard at the bead (823s and UST)
A little stans and ran another run charging it all the way no issues.

 

[gratiflying]

wicked info.. props...

regarding MM 2.3 FR vs. UST casing... i was planning on trying the 2.3 FRs setup on some Flows and if i manage to burp or puncture the tire, just move up to the UST casing... any thoughts/info on how the actual bead differs between the FR and UST casing?... gonna try the pinner yellow tape setup which can be finicky so want the best bead to rim seal... any thoughts?

 

[Joe]

I blew both these tyres off the rims at once, f+r, running some pre recall MM. Problem is the bead looks like its still attached to the carcass of the tyre so not a recall job i think i dont know if theyre just a dodgy set or **** generally? Anyone else get any issues with blowing thse off the rims?

I run about 25 - 30psi aswell and never have this problem with Maxxis...