Keep thinking along the lines of the Cove Handjob MikeD. 69 degree HT angle the 70 degree seat tube angle might not be ideal, and the chainstays are wide enough to fit a 2.35 tire in the rear.
So I'm thinking of replacing my Balfa with a hardtail, but........
- Thread starter MMcG
- Start date
I plan on using a suspension fork - I'm not that masochistic!splat said:
Endless is what I would go for fo sho.
Mike is a very wise manMikeD said:
....D
I don't think I'd take an Endless frame if it were given to me.T-Pirate said:
Have you looked at the Surly Instigator? They's cheap. And steel.
GeoffW said:
I am not a fan of Banshee bikes whatsoever - they just seem way over gussetted and crap. but it's all personal preference really. Banshees just don't do it for me and besides that is heavier than I want to go for a frame and it's not steel either.
The Handjob is looking like a good contender if I go this route (again it is just one option I'm considering)
LOL....MMcG said:
Do you share my sentiments?BMXman said:
MMcG said:
So, uh, you don't want a freeride style bike and you don't want an XC style bike...I'm sort of at a loss for what to tell you.
The endless might be worth a hard look, but it's gonna cost too much. The Surly Instigator and the KHS Rigid One are really all I can think of at this point. But you probably don't like the curved TT on the Surly, either...
MD :nuts:
I like the Cove Handjob - I like the Kona Explosif - and as I said before I wouldn't take an Endless if it was given to me. I'm also digging Aosty's Kona Score that's for sale in the Buy and Sell forum.
This is what I have in mind MikeD and others - I'd classify this as a hardtail trail bike somewhere in between XC and FR wouldn't you?
This is what I have in mind MikeD and others - I'd classify this as a hardtail trail bike somewhere in between XC and FR wouldn't you?
Sorry to derail this thread, but I have the same dilema. Need a hardtail frame that can take lots of FR abuse, but also relatively lightweight and a seattube long enough for XC. Something like the SC Chameleon but with vertical dropouts. How about Azonic Evolution II? Does anyone have the geometry numbers for this frame? Stupid azonics site doesnt have very much info...
my mom always said if I didn't have anything nice to say.....DMMcG said:
maybe it's just me but that looks like pure xc to me...I don't think the wheels, tires or cranks would hold up to freeride abuse....but my definition of freeride may be different from yours...DMMcG said:I like the Cove Handjob - I like the Kona Explosif - and as I said before I wouldn't take an Endless if it was given to me. I'm also digging Aosty's Kona Score that's for sale in the Buy and Sell forum.
This is what I have in mind MikeD and others - I'd classify this as a hardtail trail bike somewhere in between XC and FR wouldn't you?
That's just it BMXman - I don't want a freeride hardtail, I would want to get a trail bike hardtail and the cove in that configuration looks like it would fit the bill.BMXman said:
What I don't want is hardtail with an 80mm Sid on the front, nor do I want a 7 pound hardtail with a Z1 FR or Z150 up front. Something in the middle with a Fox Vanilla or Fox Talas up front. Something with slacker ht angles than a traditional 71 degree XC hardtail, something with a decent bb height too.
Got one more for you Mark, if ytou can get one here.MMcG said:
http://www.cotic.co.uk/
I read somewhere that the Cotic guys set out to build a steel Chamelion.
Sounds right up your alley, but the current $ to Euro rate might make it a little more than you wanted to spend.
STW did a write up a while back:
http://www.singletrackworld.com/article.php?sid=814
Sounds to me like the big kicker is the HT angle. You basically want and XC frame with a 69* HT angle and trail bike type parts (discs, 5" fork, etc.). I suspect that you'll end up riding the Cheeta on the really nasty trails, so unless you absolutely fall in love with the hardtail, it won't really get abused. That means that you don't need anything all that beefy (i.e. a freeride/DJ frame). An XC frame with the right geometry and trailbike parts should be fine for you.
I think that's a recipe for a Kona - only problem is I'm not sure how much they do with steel. That cove may well be a good pick too, I'm just not as familiar with them as I am the Konas.
I think that's a recipe for a Kona - only problem is I'm not sure how much they do with steel. That cove may well be a good pick too, I'm just not as familiar with them as I am the Konas.
MMcG, the only other opinion I can offer is that most hardtails these days actually do meet your definition. The days of every bike and rider needing/wanting 80mm forks and 135mm stems are long gone. Bikes today are generally shorter and made to take 4-5" forks and 90mmish stems, which are really the norm now. Unless you go specifically to find an XC race bike, most HTs will fit your definition, unless you build them up funky. A standard 71 HA will probably end up being more 70-ish with a 5" fork, if you get a taller one like a Zocchi or something.
For what you're looking for, though, it appears the Cove is it. I didn't know the listed HA was so slack, and everything else seems perfect. Kona HTs generally have traditional angles...I recall even the bigger AL frames having 71 HAs listed in previous years.
Anyhow, yeah, Cove is it, so why haven't you ordered it yet?
MF
For what you're looking for, though, it appears the Cove is it. I didn't know the listed HA was so slack, and everything else seems perfect. Kona HTs generally have traditional angles...I recall even the bigger AL frames having 71 HAs listed in previous years.
Anyhow, yeah, Cove is it, so why haven't you ordered it yet?
MF
Jackson - I'm trying to find more information on the 2005 Kona Explosif frame - I like how it has those modular dropouts (something the Cove doesn't offer) and I've seen Echo's 2004 and his bike is simply stunning. Kona is using a diferent steel tubing for 2005 so I need to find out more about that too. I almost bought a Kona hardtail way back when I bought my Marin, so perhaps this could be the opportunity to get that Kona after all. We'll see. I have time to decide on this.jacksonpt said:
MMcG said:
Steel wont have an infinite fatigue life unless you put excess material. Dw explained this to me that steel lives more is a myth a couple of months ago....
I would suggest Cove Stiffee
This is true, but for a given amount of material, steel will still have a longer fatigue life.math2014 said:
DW was simply putting down the myth that all steel frames, no matter what the construction, have some sort of magical infinite fatigue life.
i had an old kona hot that was a fun bike, but the 4" z1 raked it out a bit. and then my wife drove it into the garage. 
J
JRB
Guest
If I understand metal like I think I do, steel will stretch over time, where aluminum is rigid enough that it will just ultimately break. I don't know how hardening of these 2 things matters. I can tell you how they will relate to horse shoes. 
hahaha loco said it right 
Well 100gr of steel should be better than 100gr of Allu. But speaking of steel and allu in general is daft imho. Specific alloys should be the better topic, as well as tube manipulation, quality of welding and FEA.
I wouldnt trust lightweight alluminum, hence i got a steel roadie. For a heavy allu FS i would trust alluminum (see my SX or a bighit). If the alu is "enough" then it should last enough.... i.e. i would be bored of the frame before it breaks or starts to get tired... or so i hope....
Well 100gr of steel should be better than 100gr of Allu. But speaking of steel and allu in general is daft imho. Specific alloys should be the better topic, as well as tube manipulation, quality of welding and FEA.
I wouldnt trust lightweight alluminum, hence i got a steel roadie. For a heavy allu FS i would trust alluminum (see my SX or a bighit). If the alu is "enough" then it should last enough.... i.e. i would be bored of the frame before it breaks or starts to get tired... or so i hope....
Quit derailling my thread and let's get back to discussing frames again!
The Handjob is a 69 degree HT angle with a 100mm fork - so that would be like 68 with a 125 or 130 fork.
Maybe the Explosif with a Talas is the way to go.
Hmmmmm
The Handjob is a 69 degree HT angle with a 100mm fork - so that would be like 68 with a 125 or 130 fork.
Maybe the Explosif with a Talas is the way to go.
Hmmmmm
Yeah I'm very tempted by the DOC Steve - I just wonder if it leans too far to the skatepark, fr side of the spectrum - but it does look super cool. Sort of like a refined Minuteman.berkshire_rider said:
http://peytocycles.com/
maybe a bit too expensive for your budget, but veeeeery nice. scroll down the page to the "20/01/04 - Demo Frames" linkage. that there is my exact frame. bought it a few months ago. great for dh/xc/urban/anything you want. ok for any long travel single crown. i've got a 130mm z-1 on mine at the moment. clearance in the back for up to 2.7 intense, at least on mine. head angle is ~ 69 degrees on mine. frame weighed 5 pounds on the nose.
if you have the means, i highly reccomend one.
posted up somewhere in the hardtail thread on the DH board. i'd do more pics, but i'm at work right now. here's some linkage from bikeforums.net. #820, towards the bottom of the page.
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=39174&page=33&pp=25&highlight=Peyto
maybe a bit too expensive for your budget, but veeeeery nice. scroll down the page to the "20/01/04 - Demo Frames" linkage. that there is my exact frame. bought it a few months ago. great for dh/xc/urban/anything you want. ok for any long travel single crown. i've got a 130mm z-1 on mine at the moment. clearance in the back for up to 2.7 intense, at least on mine. head angle is ~ 69 degrees on mine. frame weighed 5 pounds on the nose.
if you have the means, i highly reccomend one.
posted up somewhere in the hardtail thread on the DH board. i'd do more pics, but i'm at work right now. here's some linkage from bikeforums.net. #820, towards the bottom of the page.
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=39174&page=33&pp=25&highlight=Peyto
i hav an azonic steelhead that i think is one of the best bikes out there for the price. my setup is relatively lite, and you could probably ride trails on it if you wanted too, just thought id throw in my 2 cents
I saw your frame on MTBR.com a while back - very nice looking. Can you PM me with more details on the frame material etc. etc.scrublover said:
Thanks!
Mark
Okay I'm back to this thread due to financial reasons. I think a hardtail is the way to go for me for now. Has anyone seen or had some ride time on a 2005 Explosif frame yet?
Or does anyone have any leads on a used Explosif or other steel hardtrail frame?
Or does anyone have any leads on a used Explosif or other steel hardtrail frame?
Saw this add earlier today... Explosif on MTBR classifiedsMMcG said:
Yep I emailed that guy!jacksonpt said:
Mark,
I'm kinda in the same boat as you.
I have an '04 Kona Unit frame that I've been waiting to build up -- actually since before I bought the Hollowpoint. Kona changed their geometry for '04 and gave the Unit/Explosif a 70.something degree headangle w/ an 80mm-travel fork. a 5"-travel fork would really slacken the geometry.
A friend of mine is also in said boat and is really liking the new Planet X Armadillo. 70/73*, 13" bb, with a 100mm-travel fork. Sounds perfect to me for East coast trails. Set it up with a Talas or Marathon or something, decent parts, and you should have a nice, light, strong bike.
I'm kinda in the same boat as you.
I have an '04 Kona Unit frame that I've been waiting to build up -- actually since before I bought the Hollowpoint. Kona changed their geometry for '04 and gave the Unit/Explosif a 70.something degree headangle w/ an 80mm-travel fork. a 5"-travel fork would really slacken the geometry.
A friend of mine is also in said boat and is really liking the new Planet X Armadillo. 70/73*, 13" bb, with a 100mm-travel fork. Sounds perfect to me for East coast trails. Set it up with a Talas or Marathon or something, decent parts, and you should have a nice, light, strong bike.
Geez.....BALFA MINUTEMAN!!
ummmm - nope - too heavy, too freeridish, and too slack of a HT angle.SLOPE said:Geez.....BALFA MINUTEMAN!!
Kona MTB Hardtail Design
Dedacciai SAT Cromoly Butted Frame
14", 16", 18", 19", 20", 21"
The Dedaccia Chromoly is a good metal.