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Speed balanced geo....Transition

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by Metamorphic, Jun 29, 2017.

  1. Metamorphic

    Metamorphic Monkey

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  2. Olly

    Olly Chimp

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  3. Sandwich

    Sandwich Pig my fish!
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    very interested in this. Also interested that dcamp sez not all fork manufacturers are building 51mm offset DH forks. I hope that means non-MTBRd 29er forks will come down the pipe. Handling is simply better on MTBs with shorter offset at speed. I'm not sure I've found a situation where that isn't true, except for very slow speeds.
     
  4. Metamorphic

    Metamorphic Monkey

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    she looks good, at least that is confirmed.

    Assuming 175mm cranks, you can measure out about 178mm of exposed stanchions...so likely this puppy has a 170 36 bolted up to it. Sweet. Will be watching for rear travel and more deets.....

     
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  5. jstuhlman

    jstuhlman We noticed.

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  6. Electric_City

    Electric_City The orangutans are loose!

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    So basically they brought their bikes up to date with "modern geometry" and implemented Gary Fisher's "Genesis geometry" from 1996 on the fork.
     
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  7. Sandwich

    Sandwich Pig my fish!
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    I think that's the opposite. G2 genesis geometry gave us 51mm offset 29er forks, which makes the bike handle fast, or "nimbly" but that huge offset contributes to wheel flop and feels fucked up at speed. what tranny is doing is shortening the offset so bikes don't feel retarded anymore, even though that's how Gary Fisher and MTBR want them to feel.

    that's my takeaway. I remember going from an avalanche 65mm offset fork to a boxxer (38mm?) and the difference was amazing. So much more control, so much less wheel flop. the head angle went down at the same time, so that's why i don't think I noticed the change in steering "Speed"
     
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  8. Kevin

    Kevin Turbo Monkey

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    I mean i really like their bikes and my next bike is either gonna be a Bronson or a Scout, but that video was about as cringe as it gets :D
     
  9. Westy

    Westy the teste

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    Would this be considered AGRESSIVE geometry?
     
  10. StiHacka

    StiHacka Compensating for something

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    Geometry schmeometry, did you see their bikes now have C.O.C.K.@B.A.L.L.S.? :shocked:
    (they also have T.I.T.S., sounds like a true Bangkok experience)
     
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  11. Metamorphic

    Metamorphic Monkey

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  12. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    Isn't fox the only one that IS?


    Big offsets on forks work well climbing but compromise dh. Just like bigger wheels.
     
    #12 -   Jun 29, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2017
  13. Nick

    Nick My name is Nick

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    I can't be sure from that picture, but he appears to be utilizing a new Enduro Wrist Strap® on his wrist to carry a package of Taco Bell hot sauce.

    It's the latest trend in transition stage nutrition.

    I've said too much....
     
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  14. Sandwich

    Sandwich Pig my fish!
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    I dunno. Of the two that seem to actually bringing 29er dh forks to market, his quote was that not "all" were bringing high offset forks. So I guess that means that the RS DH fork won't be 51mm.
     
  15. StiHacka

    StiHacka Compensating for something

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    Ahh, the new S.H.I.T.T.E.R. body accelerator? :think:
     
  16. Electric_City

    Electric_City The orangutans are loose!

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    They should put the dropouts behind the fork! I knew Girvin was ahead of its time!


    6c802b8bda4520c7bb7fecec9d5b4d23.jpg
     
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  17. djjohnr

    djjohnr Turbo Monkey

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    Actually that's pretty close to the truth - http://www.teamhotshot.com/
     
  18. Electric_City

    Electric_City The orangutans are loose!

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  19. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    I'm not talking about theoretical, yet to be available forks, fox 40s for 27.5 forks are 52mm. Given their apparent thinking on offsets for wheelsizes, those 49 forks must be like 109mm.

    The 27.5 boxxers are something like 48, so not far off.
     
  20. dcamp29

    dcamp29 Monkey

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    I've done some switching between an 51 and 42 offset fork on the same bike...


    the good:
    -calmer steering (like Lars says)
    -better front wheel traction (I think because the wheel is closer/more underneath you, similar to running a longer stem)
    -more stability all around

    the bad:
    -heavier/floppier steering on climbs (I can deal because my arms are super strong :))
    -much harder to ride with no hands when going slow and trying to eat or put on a jacket

    It's definitely an improvement- the cornering is awesome.
     
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  21. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    This is what's making me roll my eyes a bit at those press releases *ahem* I mean 'articles'.

    Everything, literally everything about that 'system' is making the bike calmer at speed, which in turn is going to make the bikes super laggy at 4mph up steep switchbacks etc. They're claiming bike bikes handle better going uphill but it could only be a product of steeper seat tubes. The actual steering is still going to suck.

    I've mismatched a ton of 27.5 and 26" stuff the last 4 years, dh and trailbikes. I actually LIKE the way greater offset forks climb because they sharpen up at really low speeds.

    I'm glad someone's getting away from this exponential offset growth with wheelsize though. The dh forks have suffered.
     
  22. Westy

    Westy the teste

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  23. dcamp29

    dcamp29 Monkey

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    so you're saying you want an on-the-fly adjustable offset fork? hahaahaha
     
  24. Westy

    Westy the teste

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    This will not be a problem when we get e-bikes with power steering.
     
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  25. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    I figure an eliptical cam in the dropouts should do it. Just kick the wheel when you get to the top of a hill.


    Actually what I want is for pinkbike or vital to be honest about what's being done.



    Equal chances of either happening.
     
  26. 'size

    'size Turbo Monkey

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    if we're going to do this, do it right. add it to the remote that simultaneously raises and lowers your saddle and adjusts your suspension settings. three birds...

    also i don't like the shape of the rocker on this bike.
     
  27. Electric_City

    Electric_City The orangutans are loose!

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    A flip-chip sort of thing like a lot of companies do with the rear suspension that changes bb height/STA. The chip can be flipped to fore/aft positions! Brilliant!
     
  28. Westy

    Westy the teste

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    I've got the patent filed...
     
  29. Cerberus75

    Cerberus75 Monkey

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    Even at slower speeds, I'm naturally going to react slower, 51 still feels fast, I just orders a 46 offset crown to solve this. Right before this article came out. I'm on a Riot and the twitchy steering at speed is my only complaint.
     
  30. maxyedor

    maxyedor <b>TOOL PRO</b>

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    Most people suck at climbing anyway, HTA, fork offset, seat tube angle, and sluggish steering make no difference when pushing your bike.

    Not getting nearly as pumped on marketing hype as they'd like me to be, but I love the steeper seat tube angle. That's the dumbest shit the lizard people have done, especially with the advent of dropper posts. I don't want me effective top tube to grow and shrink by a foot simply because you failed at suspension design and put a 45 degree seat tube on the thing.
     
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  31. Westy

    Westy the teste

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    You rang?

     
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  32. Beast

    Beast Turbo Monkey

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    Come on meow, woosef. I wouldn't steer you wrong.
     
  33. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    Oooh good one! :D

    Come on man, you really saying those bikes don't steer slow going slow uphill? I'm all about what they're after with forks but they didn't call it slow speed balanced geometry. I'm not bummed on it at all, I think it's rad but it's hard to swallow that it's BETTER climbing as far as steering. I don't doubt it feels better being further forward over the BB, but with steering alone.........better? That front end is still getting pushed forward with the headangle and longer front center, regardless of a few mm of fork offset.
     
    #33 -   Jun 30, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2017
  34. Beast

    Beast Turbo Monkey

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    What I said is what I experienced: "Pointed uphill, tight switchbacks often present a challenge for many riders. SBG's smooth arcs once again came into play here, never once flopping. Depending on the turn, if it does start to dive in it seems to gently guide you in the direction you wanted to go. We found it easier to maintain balance even at slow speeds while pedaling uphill."

    And do you of all people honestly give a damn about riding at super slow speeds? Maximize the fun, baby.

    "Switchacks = woodland based crimes against humanity"
     
  35. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    Oh god no, I'm stoked on this kind of stuff because it prioritizes what matters....descents.

    But when I hear 'smooth arc', that sounds an awful like super slow steering that you need to fall into the turn to keep the bike upright. I've pedaled long 63 degree headangle bikes uphill before that most certainly are not 'better' climbing than something shorter in the front end and way steeper........ and that's what it sounds like you're describing.

    You've ridden the whole package, I haven't. I just have a hard time believing that the climbing aspect of these bikes isn't compromised when we're talking JUST about steering itself.
     
  36. Beast

    Beast Turbo Monkey

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    I'll do some shitty back-to-back climbs for comparison in our next feature, just for you.
     
  37. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    When checking out a new system, isn't that kind of the point?

    Comparisons?

    I'm not bagging on ya man, I'm just you know....discussing vital content. :D
     
  38. ianjenn

    ianjenn Turbo Monkey

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    That is exactly what stop watches are for. It is proof that cannot be argued. But it may anger some industry types in the long run.
     
  39. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

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    I don't know, even that's not bulletproof. People get tired/better at riding a section after a few times etc.....

    Personally, I don't even care about times climbing really, I already know these bikes are an improvement descending because I've swapped in this kind of stuff on my own bikes, including forks with different offsets. It's just that every one of them compromised climbing when they benefitted descending. Scooting the rider further forward certainly helps though. Something like a scout with this setup would be rad.
     
  40. Jm_

    Jm_ Turbo Monkey

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    I'm looking for static balanced stability for the ultimate in track stands while I wait at stoplights.