[seand]

Sunday turned out to be an interesting day at SST. Someone had taken it upon themselves to built two very very poorly built jumps which interrupted the flow of a line. They also took it upon themselves to not return the tools from where they got them. After taking a few minutes to remove these hazards, we noticed another job on the far left line. This jump was well built, yet it had to go per the city's request of staying ontop of things. All we knew was someone by the name of Scott built it. While taking it down, Scott came up. The conversation started out quite aggressive and rocky, but after a short while, some really good headway was made. His jump is still there, and Tony (dirtworld rider) gave it a few go's, as did a few others, and they all said its solid and are happy.

Scott suggested a means of opening a channel of communication between builders and riders and had to leave. This planted an idea in my head, but I wasnt sure what it was quite yet. While putting the tools back, Cory (Bibs) got talking with a couple of us and made me realize what that great idea would be....a monthly meeting at SST to open the area up for discussion...BRILLIANT!

Now when to have it? How about the first Sunday of every month at noon on the table? We close the trail and have a sit down for as long as needed to hash out things. What would be a great product of this idea is....COMMUNITY. I would love to see the place manage itself and all that is needed is some fixing up. No more us and them mentality; which I wish never grew in the first place. There are so many different user groups that use SST, a meeting would be one of the first times that all of these groups got together and created a beast that the masses agreed upon.

The rules would have to be based on acting civil...no yelling, fighting...interrupting others...interrupt yourself all you want with a wild upper-cut...but respect others and they will respect you while you speak and share your concerns...

what is everyones thought on this? something has to be done, and Cory could very well have solved the issue!

-sean

i posted this idea on the sst site as well:
http://sst.autisticpig.com/site/index.php

 

[jeepmauler]

Where at on the far left line? We left at 10:30 and didn't see anyone digging,just curious.

Also a garbage can or two would be good,noticed a pretty good pile of bottles at the mid-way entrance.Thats always been the biggest battle is people tossing trash and the locals having to deal with it.

 

[seand]

there is a second jump now heading down the far left line. you cant miss it if you drop the ledge.

there is only one garbage can out there right now. we take turns on carrying it out and replacing the bags...we will toss a second one in at the middle entrace when we can afford to buy another one.

 

[buildyourown]

Sean,
Are you talking about the size increase in the first jump on the far right line, right after the left right berms? I was out on Sat morning and noticed this was huge. You couldn't rail the berms with any speed without getting jacked by the jump.
I also noticed somebody "fixed" the changes that I made to the crossover double on the right line.

Oh, yeah. I have an extra big trash can that I can donate, but it's big so it would be tough to haul out when full. Let me know and I can drop it off.

 

[jeepmauler]

That hit was there(New lip after drop,far left)when my wife and I were there in the AM.I thought it flowed well,but you had to nuke off it to get tranny.

What do you need? a heavy duty galvanized T-can? I"ll hook ya up.I ride there but have not the time to help maintain the area.I'd get ya a can as rent for runnin yer trails.Whateva

 

[seand]

yeah the size increase of the booter after the s-curves...i didnt notice that until i hit it with speed...and landed HORRIBLY flat. kinda hurt.

see, this thread is heading down the road that a meeting of minds would remedy...there wouldnt be a surprise to anyone when something gets changed, moved, removed, added...and if someone didnt bother coming to the meeting, they have no room to complain about the way things go

we can put the small trash at the bottom right now in the middle and put the bigger one at the bottom. i dont mind taking a HUGE load out if it helps prevent garbage build up...ya know? it looks bad on everyone if we have beer cans and water bottles and gatorade bottles sitting about everywhere...


buildyourown -
what changes did you make? we were there friday...and sunday. we noticed on friday that someone had built a kicker on the old main line which was the most out-of-place jump in the history of SST...thats the one I was talking about that had to be nuked...

 

[bibs]

Ya beat me too it! I got some good ideas, Ill chat with you later about....

 

[seand]

wweeee...


EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!

oke

 

[buildyourown]

buildyourown -
what changes did you make? we were there friday...and sunday. we noticed on friday that someone had built a kicker on the old main line which was the most out-of-place jump in the history of SST...thats the one I was talking about that had to be nuked...

The jump I was talking about was the small "berm to berm" double right after the first drop on the far right line. It's an alternative to the big stepdown.
I thought it was a bit "lippy". It made it hard to keep enough speed to clear the table. I asked Andy if it was cool if I shaved it off a bit. I cut down the outside so make a fast line and kept the inside so slower riders could clear it. I noticed on Sat that somebody had added more dirt and raised it up again.

I'm not trying to be a trail nazi as I have not put very much back into those trails. However, multiply people building and unbuilding jumps is kind of stupid.
ie, don't F with jumps that are perfectly good!

 

[Captain Crunch]

could be a step in the right direction.

 

[seand]

The jump I was talking about was the small "berm to berm" double right after the first drop on the far right line. It's an alternative to the big stepdown.
I thought it was a bit "lippy". It made it hard to keep enough speed to clear the table. I asked Andy if it was cool if I shaved it off a bit. I cut down the outside so make a fast line and kept the inside so slower riders could clear it. I noticed on Sat that somebody had added more dirt and raised it up again.

I'm not trying to be a trail nazi as I have not put very much back into those trails. However, multiply people building and unbuilding jumps is kind of stupid.
ie, don't F with jumps that are perfectly good!

OH OH! you are...uhhh damnit! cant remember the name...you ride with your doggy, right? you were working on that gapper line that one day with andy standing there. yeah i thought the work you did was good! i didnt notice any dirt added to it since well..i dont touch that line; you and scottie are the only two that i know of that ride it...

go ahead and remove what you need and make it better to suit yourself



steve-o!!!!

i think it could be a step in the right direction....cant hurt, right? been way to long since we have kicked it. what was it? whistler..ratpack? man o man...time to chillax again

 

[Borneo]

The only thing I don't see in this thread is some way to contact everyone you want to. There's plenty of users on other forums and elsewhere, in general. Maybe start with some signage posted out there a week before the meeting. Make sure you add some verbiage in there about it being cool with parks and maybe, just maybe, you can get an "official" city rep there to add some validity to the meeting. At least at first.

And, make sure to keep reposting, because, they will get torn down.

Good stuff.

 

[bibs]

sean I have to slap you know for saying "chillax" oh brutta!

 

[Corporatefailure]

o o o o we need krank works hits!!! thats my sugjestion!! and and and 14 foot drops to flat or big rocks on flat!

 

[Ynot]

This is my first post so I might as well jump right in.
My friend Scott started building the new kicker on the far left line two Sundays ago and I knew it would make some waves based on Sean and Andy's past posts. I wasn't 100% sure of what he was up to but I knew that he had been putting a lot of thought into it for a few weeks. When he explained it to me it seemed pretty harmless and it made a lot of sense to us because it was exactly like the other kicker that had been after the far left drop for almost a year(not too big or unsafe, with a bypass), that line has had nothing new for a long time and it's not in the main line still used by xc riders.
As I see it from an improvement standpoint that far left line is now super fun. You now have a bigish drop to two jumps with trannys in which a lot of riders(self included) must stretch their skills to hit. Then you are hitting the big berm right away and take it where you want from there. The first time I hit the left line with the new jump I was in the "God This place is fun mode" as well as the "Scott you are the man" mode.
I think a monthly meeting is a good idea but an onsite and or on line mesage board would be a good thing for those who can't make it.
Tony

 

[seand]

keep it coming!


borneo - thanks for the suggestion! I am going to see if i cant get the seatac parks/rec guy out there for the first few meetings...that would be sweet and help add to the validity of things.

posting signage of how to get in touch with people...that is on our short-term goals list...actually, we were thinking of putting a bullitin board at the bottom like the one near the parking area...toss up all needed info and dates...upcoming meetings/events/etc.

cory - you can slap me if you want that was a caffiene-free post i made.

frank - you are fired...niggz

tony - i agree...that kicker was much needed and it is great to see people actually hitting that line again...sweet!

 

[DBR X6 RIDER]

The place is still relatively new in the overall scheme of things, really. Things like this are definitely what need to take place if the flowpark as we know it is to continue.
Glad we were able to restore the kicker to a respectable manner, Tony. I still need to talk to Pip...if he had mentioned that to me last week, I could have gotten alot of runs in yesterday (that was my one-and-only goal for yesterday - I may have gotten five runs in) if I had known that info.


Speaking of signs...there's at least three of the signs I've put up out there that are MIA. This makes Andy sad.
If you see anybody messing w/ any of them...well, at least save me some scraps.:mumble:

 

[Freak]

A monthly meeting is fine, but closing down the trail?? What if people come from a distance that never even knows about this board wants to ride there when you're having a meeting. You gonna tell them they can't ride after driving over an hour to get there? Or maybe you get some XC people wanting to ride through there also. Something tells me them being told they can't ride there (in a city park) might bring up a stink.

Just food for thought.

 

[seand]

yeah closing the trail is a pisspoor idea on my part. but meeting at SST is the best way. That way others can join in as they ride by and input something all those in attendance may not have thought of? we can use all that wood at the bottom to build a nice picnic table to sit at and chat

So does the first sunday in each month work for everyone? does a different day work better? i have noticed that the largest number of people wind up at SST on sundays around noon than any other day...

yay/nay?

 

[DBR X6 RIDER]

yeah closing the trail is a pisspoor idea on my part. but meeting at SST is the best way. That way others can join in as they ride by and input something all those in attendance may not have thought of? we can use all that wood at the bottom to build a nice picnic table to sit at and chat

So does the first sunday in each month work for everyone? does a different day work better? i have noticed that the largest number of people wind up at SST on sundays around noon than any other day...

yay/nay?

OK...WTF. My internet has an echo-complex going on right now. I read a post on one site only to see the same exact post on another?!?

Perhaps a coat/camelbak/helmet holder could be assembled w/ the wood down there?

 

[bibs]

keep it coming!


borneo - thanks for the suggestion! I am going to see if i cant get the seatac parks/rec guy out there for the first few meetings...that would be sweet and help add to the validity of things.

posting signage of how to get in touch with people...that is on our short-term goals list...actually, we were thinking of putting a bullitin board at the bottom like the one near the parking area...toss up all needed info and dates...upcoming meetings/events/etc.

cory - you can slap me if you want that was a caffiene-free post i made.

frank - you are fired...niggz

tony - i agree...that kicker was much needed and it is great to see people actually hitting that line again...sweet!

ok...
tony yes...

sean...hahahaha...nothing but love

freak...ride before you speak, bad freak...bad

and everyone else....lets work together...so we all can be happy!

and I just got home from a pub crawl...www.beerdash.com

 

[Corporatefailure]

This is going to turn into a Burocratic society.

Nothing is going to get done.

Sean- you cant fire me...not niggz.

 

[seand]

niggz, you are a commie...your opinion is best directed at the nearest brick wall!

I dont see this turning bad...possibly chaotic, but not bad.

its worth a shot...there is just too much mis-communication going on between everyone...

had Pip mentioned to Andy that Scott had built that kicker, that whole fiasco would have been avoided...buuut then we wouldnt have had the chance to speak with Scott and....anyways..

andy - my internet has a posting echo complex....cant seem to find the virus causing it

 

[Certified Drunk]

Why doesn't someone list the rules that City has givin?

 

[Snacks]

A monthly meeting is fine, but closing down the trail?? What if people come from a distance that never even knows about this board wants to ride there when you're having a meeting. You gonna tell them they can't ride after driving over an hour to get there? Or maybe you get some XC people wanting to ride through there also. Something tells me them being told they can't ride there (in a city park) might bring up a stink.

Just food for thought.

I agree. Why not hold the meeting in the cul-d-sac at the top of trail?

Also, you used to be able to ride though the area without having to hit the jumps, off to the left hand side, on an XC bike. Now there are a few jumps/drops that are manitory...at the top of the trail where it spilts in two.

Can't there be a though line again? That area was first and for most XC trails.

Oh, and yes to what Marty said....there has been all this talk about what the city will and won't let be done in that area, but where is that list?

 

[PsychO!1]

As long as your doing signage and such...how about a sugestion box. That way users could submit repair and/or upgrade requests without having to come an outdoor meeting that will most likely turn to total chaos.

 

[buildyourown]

Also, you used to be able to ride though the area without having to hit the jumps, off to the left hand side, on an XC bike. Now there are a few jumps/drops that are manitory...at the top of the trail where it spilts in two.

There still is a clear through line. It's the same trail that has always been there. It was clear as of Saturday anyways.

 

[Snacks]

There still is a clear through line. It's the same trail that has always been there. It was clear as of Saturday anyways.

When you start out on top, going in from the cul-d-sac, the trail splits in two(the right line is newer). Either trail has a jump or a drop...

Then you come to the rock face area, were you can go off the to right to go down the side. On the XC bike I always take the right line, but even that has been riddled with jumps.

I'm just stating that the area, 99% of the trails, where XC trails before the 'flow park' got started. Now there might not be much opposition but this spring and summer when all the XC riders hit the trails and the dog walkers are more prevalent there will most likely be some issues.

 

[seand]

the list of rules I got are as follows:

1 - No gaps without a safe place to come up short
this was one of the deciding factors for travis' poor gap to get killed ;(

2 - keep the progressive but allow growth and challenge while being safe
much harder than one would think!

3 - host a website so we can check out whats going on from time to time with updated news, events, and pics
hence the birth of sst.autisticpig.com :/

4 - please keep the building and fixing in the hands of a few. the more that get involved, the less control there will be and the greater the chance the other rules will get broken. be respectful, but be firm with what gets built there. the other areas have had this issue when trails started getting put in and a few small dirtjump spots have been removed because of this.

5 - there needs to be a multi-user ability there. it started as a hiking/xc place, and there needs to still be a way for them all to enjoy the land while you guys do you thing

6 - no wooden structures will be tolerated
this was later changed to 'use your judgement'. but i think its best to only use wood if NEEDED...EG - bridging a sensitive area or such while keeping flow...much like how bridges originally started

7 - all user groups have to get along.
aparently the issues with wick and the cyclocross events got out of hand enough that the city was made aware of it. so we just have to be aware of what else is going on in the park

8 - be respectful of nature and do as little damage as possible to sustain what is left of the wildlife.
that means no cutting trees and killing major roots




the city plan is to make the entire park another golf course over the next 5 years, so the city is quite lax with what goes on because of the golf course agenda. it sucks, but what can you do....

the main reason the trails are allowed? it cut down on the homeless population back there and also provided a means of outdoors enjoyment at the same time....the city didnt seem to care what trails were put in there as i was told they have no way of controlling it with how big the park is...they fought the 4 pack area by the porta-potties for a few years, but just gave up after they knew the dirt will continue to be moved no matter how many signs or threats were made.

snacks - there is still a clear line from top->bottom for xc/cyclo/hiker to use. in fact, on friday, there were a few rully rigid riders who came through that exact line thanking us for providing a way to get through there without needing to take the tires off the ground...if that line is gone, its news to me.

a suggestions box would be a grande idea! now to hope someone doesnt steal it

cul-de-sac area for a pow-wow? works for me!

when we go out there this weekend at some point, we will post of signage about a meeting...hopefully more than just 4 people show up

 

[seand]

oh and hey.

i have a (new) size medium Shore Head t-shirt sitting around here....anyone want it?

if not, thats coo. its my last one to give away and figured someone who frequents SST may want it...

cheers!
-sean

 

[bibs]

I would if I fit into a meduim...

 

[Certified Drunk]

the list of rules I got are as follows:

1 - No gaps without a safe place to come up short
this was one of the deciding factors for travis' poor gap to get killed ;(

2 - keep the progressive but allow growth and challenge while being safe
much harder than one would think!

3 - host a website so we can check out whats going on from time to time with updated news, events, and pics
hence the birth of sst.autisticpig.com :/

4 - please keep the building and fixing in the hands of a few. the more that get involved, the less control there will be and the greater the chance the other rules will get broken. be respectful, but be firm with what gets built there. the other areas have had this issue when trails started getting put in and a few small dirtjump spots have been removed because of this.

5 - there needs to be a multi-user ability there. it started as a hiking/xc place, and there needs to still be a way for them all to enjoy the land while you guys do you thing

6 - no wooden structures will be tolerated
this was later changed to 'use your judgement'. but i think its best to only use wood if NEEDED...EG - bridging a sensitive area or such while keeping flow...much like how bridges originally started

7 - all user groups have to get along.
aparently the issues with wick and the cyclocross events got out of hand enough that the city was made aware of it. so we just have to be aware of what else is going on in the park

8 - be respectful of nature and do as little damage as possible to sustain what is left of the wildlife.
that means no cutting trees and killing major roots




the city plan is to make the entire park another golf course over the next 5 years, so the city is quite lax with what goes on because of the golf course agenda. it sucks, but what can you do....

the main reason the trails are allowed? it cut down on the homeless population back there and also provided a means of outdoors enjoyment at the same time....the city didnt seem to care what trails were put in there as i was told they have no way of controlling it with how big the park is...they fought the 4 pack area by the porta-potties for a few years, but just gave up after they knew the dirt will continue to be moved no matter how many signs or threats were made.

snacks - there is still a clear line from top->bottom for xc/cyclo/hiker to use. in fact, on friday, there were a few rully rigid riders who came through that exact line thanking us for providing a way to get through there without needing to take the tires off the ground...if that line is gone, its news to me.

a suggestions box would be a grande idea! now to hope someone doesnt steal it

cul-de-sac area for a pow-wow? works for me!

when we go out there this weekend at some point, we will post of signage about a meeting...hopefully more than just 4 people show up

Those your rules????Or the Citys? Some are very questionable for the city.

 

[Corporatefailure]

Whos up for Cocktails? durka durka! i dont feel like being any help.

 

[Corporatefailure]

You know what dog food taste like? .............................................. It tastes like its smells!


Delicious!

 

[DBR X6 RIDER]

When you start out on top, going in from the cul-d-sac, the trail splits in two(the right line is newer). Either trail has a jump or a drop...

Then you come to the rock face area, were you can go off the to right to go down the side. On the XC bike I always take the right line, but even that has been riddled with jumps.

That line is still as it was over a year ago when we first started going at it down there - aside from some jumps to the side of the trail itself. They aren't mandatory by any means. That's been one of our main objectives since we started - do not interfere with the main trail.

I'm just stating that the area, 99% of the trails, where XC trails before the 'flow park' got started. Now there might not be much opposition but this spring and summer when all the XC riders hit the trails and the dog walkers are more prevalent there will most likely be some issues.

I said the same thing last spring when we got it going - they (XC'ers, hikers and even 'crossers) all thought it was amazing. As a matter of fact, several of the XC folk bought a "bigger" bike just because they wanted to ride it themselves. That was a pleasant surprise.

As far as the where to hold the meeting, the cul-de-sac isn't a bad idea - but it's not a great idea all the same.
Not everybody has internet access that rides @ SST. It needs to be somewhere near the bottom - either the area near the main kicker after the slabs or even on the new section on the bottom to the right of the tables. After all, how many riders actually go all the way to the top down there?
If we held it down below, even the "halfers" will see us congregating and be naturally curious. Up top, we'd go unnoticed.

Frank - what?!?

 

[seand]

Those your rules????Or the Citys? Some are very questionable for the city.

those are the rules I was given by the city...

why are they questionable? remember, the parks/rec rep is a biker who supports progressive biking...so this shouldnt be a big shocker.

 

[Borneo]

Don't take it personal. It's a shocker because, historically, nothing's come easy. And, this smells of just too easy to be true.
Having the meeting posted on City paper or some other "official" looking documents and having a rep "officially" attend the meetings will go a long way. It sounds good.

But, sadly, I've worked with a lot of cool "official" folks on the ground over the years that virtually always get overruled by their bosses when they get nervous. Work it while you can and we'll all take the good that comes from it and learn from the bad.

 

[DBR X6 RIDER]

I'm shocked myself that the area has continued to exist for more than a year now, let alone the fortune/luck that the area has had.
As-is, nothing is forever - that's a given with anything in life. I may be somewhere else next year for all I know, so I enjoy what I have while it's there. I know I'm going to look back at the flowpark the same way I do when I think of the other areas I've ridden that no longer exist.

FOR NOW...
I'm going to take advantage of a hopefully decent turnout NOON - Sunday, Jan. 2, 2005 for the meeting being held at (yet to be disclosed area) to get some ideas for a new line(s).


p.s. - can somebody explain why anybody would want to play golf directly in the flight path of low-flying jumbo-jets...isn't golf supposed to be relaxing?

 

[bibs]

for the first meeting there should not be a representive of the city there, there will be a bit of chaos. That is a given, we need to have agroup of 4-5 riders, not just diggers that can then meet with city council and give them our proposal. After the "meetings" are established and non-confrontational then they can come out. Why bring them out and show confusion and too many different ideas. It will throw them off and it may backfire on us(the riders) Frank, get a grip!....

that is my two cents.... We need some one to take notes and we can figure it out then...Its a community not a cult...everyone's input is and must be heard and a happy meduim will be found, thats all there is too it. Its easy, but everyone just needs to be on the same page before we get it all going....and that takes time.

 

[seand]

whoa...cory took serious pills!

i also think, before the meeting is over...all in attendance should walk from top to bottom and point out what they think is good/bad/needing improvements and offer some good constructive ctiricism..not just "this sucks i hate it it lacks flow". A perfect example is what happened to the berm->berm gap. It was shaped to flow better by a rider, and someone else went in and "fixed" it..now it needs to be redone. Had we discussed this as a group, there would be no surprise as to why it is the way it is...

Having a city rep at the first meeting most likely is not the best of ideas as Cory pointed out.

I will be surprised to see this place last beyond this upcoming summer, but if it does, excellent! I know people get burned all the time by city and the higher-ups that control the way things work, but for now...we have a place to ride...I consider us lucky. When SST goes...its time to start making a new place, with far less visibility.