[- seb]

This weekend is round 3 of the British Downhill Series at Llangollen. The course is steeeeeep in places. Really steep. Last time (Welsh Champs a few weeks ago) it was wet (but drying) and wet screams seemed to be the tyre of choice to get some purchase on it for braking. This weekend the forecast looks bone dry, so it's going to get pretty dusty I think.

Now when I hear dusty I always hear "DHF". I tried some DHFs for the first time ever last weekend, and found that they didn't seem to decelerate nearly as well as the high rollers I'd had on immediately before.

Anyone else agree with this?

I think this race is going to be won by staying off the brakes and braking late and hard whenever there's a bit of support in a corner - going off of this vague description would you go for DHFs, wet screams, or something else?

The DHR looks like a better braking tyre to me, but no-one seems to use them?

 

[-C-]

I think i'm going to attach a parachute for this weekend.

I thought about running a Wetscream on the front & just leaving my DHF on the back & seeing how I get on. Alternatively i've borrowed a cut down 'scream in case I need more?

I'm hoping the track has improved from the Welsh champs though.

 

[Pslide]

You may think I'm crazy for suggesting this, but if you can find a set of WTB Weirwolfs, they might surprise you in those conditions. When I lived in Reno (dry and dusty) I found they worked quite well. I wasn't as fast back then though, and haven't tried them since (ol' blighty sure wasn't dry and dusty when I lived there!)

 

[epic]

Hutchinson Barracuda might be a good call. This is one of those conditions where the lack of transition knobs is a good thing. Also, Comp 24s with the transition knobs cut out.

 

[george]

Yup - DHF's don't really 'brake' that well - fast set-up though when run F&R. Really fast when conditions are hardpack / tacky. I run DHR out back when conditions are wet/loose. For racing / DH I am thinking you might want to be looking for Highrollers in the looser conditions - definitely better braking out back...

 

[Sandwich]

I would vote High Rollers...in a tacky compound if possible.

 

[gemini2k]

A 2.6 kenda telonix up front sounds like it would fit the bill.

 

[Tayrob]

DHF 2.5 3c up front,DHR 2.5 3c out back.I run this all summer long in the moodust/kitty litter that is Northstar.The DHR is (IMO) the best braking tire around.

 

[The Mad Haderer]

Schwalbe Muddy Mary is a good all conditions tire. the only time i really run anything different is when its REALLY dry over hardpack.

Go for the 2.35 size as the 2.5 measures up REALLY big on most rims.

 

[Muttely]

Loose over hardpack screams Schwalbe Wicked Will to me, but then Langollen is so steep deceleration may be an issue as they arent exactly diggers!

 

[Kanye West]

High Rollers brake far far more solid than either of the Minions. Telonix brake even better than those, but the cornering knobs aren't as stiff as they need to be for really heavy duty race purposes. Supposedly Conti Kaisers brake even better than any of the Maxxi pads too.

WeirWolves also brake REALLY well on loose stuff, but their cornering characteristics are vastly different than most other tires. They drift early in a lean and keep holding a drift, but don't bite in again hard as you lean further. There's a bit of a learning curve.

 

[Tdiddy]

the wet screams dig really well into the dry steep loose conditions that you're talking about, but tend to lose knobs as they get ripped off with heavy breaking if there's a lot of loose shale type rocks. I would try a wet scream on the front to dig in for better cornering control and leave a high roller on the back for braking. Try it out for a couple of runs vs. just high rollers front and back and see which you prefer.

 

[Muttely]

Cut spikes?

 

[soul-skier]

Cut spikes?

Cut Duro Muckmeisters. Great on anything but slickrock.

 

[chuckie]

Schwalbe Muddy Mary is a good all conditions tire. the only time i really run anything different is when its REALLY dry over hardpack.

Go for the 2.35 size as the 2.5 measures up REALLY big on most rims.

why is the Muddy mary not good in dry over hardpack? its supposed to be a versatile tyre right?

I was thinking of going from 2.5 minion DHF's to 2.35 Muddy mary front/ Wicked will 2.35 rear

anyone tried this combo or opinions on these 2 Schwalbe tyres compared to DHF's?

 

[Zark]

High Rollers grip great in loose, hard over loose and straight up hardpack. Braking is great. They are awesome, until they break loose. Their drift is as controllable as a Ferrari on a marble covered hockey rink.

Minion DHF's roll great and grip pretty good and drift really well. I find the braking pretty good too. They are just good all around.

Steep and loose is pretty much all I ride. I'm running a High Roller front, DHF rear combo in 2.5 3C's currently. The High roller delivers the tenacious grip, the Minion rolls fast and gets the drift on. That said I'd like to try the latest conti's, the rubber compound reminds me of a gummi bear and one of my friends is raving about them.

 

[BmxConvert]

Edge rear, Telonix front works pretty well in deep duff and stops really well. Possibly even a Intense World Cup up front if it's just dry slick dust that's not real deep.

 

[demo 9]

while i run only dhf tires, id have to jump on the telonix bandwagon as most of my friends rave about them for this type of terrain

 

[buckoW]

A cut down or not Dirty Dan up front and a 2.35 Muddy Mary in the back is my favorite setup on the Champery track in the wet or dry.

 

[- seb]

So, everyone has a different opinion basically, no surprises there!

Surprised how many people are saying a high roller though. I love them, and for the last two years have pretty much been a 2-tyre person; high rollers & wet screams. Always thought DHFs were supposed to be "the one" for loose dust, interesting to hear people suggesting that HRs might actually work better.

I've spoken to a few people about minions since I tried mine, and they seem to divide opinion with about 50% of people not being a fan at all, and the other 50% thinking they're god's own tyre!

 

[Floor Tom]

Seb, We ride at a similar speed and at similar venues (though I have never been to Llangollen). I also like you am a 2 tyre person. Either 2.5 High Rollers or 2.5 Wet Screams.
Depending on how loose it is and if there are any sections where a full spike will be too slow I would be running either cut or full size wet screams. Have you tried a cut spike yet? They are pretty good in most conditions but do wear down fast.

 

[- seb]

Yeah, I've just asked for a new pair of wetscreams, so with those, HRs and DHFs I hopefully have my bases covered.

Anyway, at the end of the day tyre choice only makes a couple of seconds difference, and I'll be losing by more like 20 seconds!

 

[Pslide]

why is the Muddy mary not good in dry over hardpack? its supposed to be a versatile tyre right?

I was thinking of going from 2.5 minion DHF's to 2.35 Muddy mary front/ Wicked will 2.35 rear

anyone tried this combo or opinions on these 2 Schwalbe tyres compared to DHF's?

I've run Muddy Marys (GG front, Triple Nano rear) for a year in the UK and they were great. Moved back to the states and just did a race at 7 springs that was dry/hardpack and can confirm they are not great.

Basically you get knob squirm if you run high inflation pressure, and if you lower you inflation pressure to reduce that, you start getting too much carcass deflection. Would have loved to try a Big Betty or Wicked Will in the dry.

I would run a MM in any other intermediate condition though.

 

[Sandwich]

for the last two years have pretty much been a 2-tyre person; high rollers & wet screams. Always thought DHFs were supposed to be "the one"

I am a "one-tire" kind of a guy and run DHF/DHR 2.5 3C compound and find traction to be adequate in every condition. That being said, I am absolutely certain that there are and will be better tires for different conditions, but the tacky minions do a great job of being good all the time, even if they aren't great. I have run High rollers previously and thought they were pretty good in looser/dustier conditions, while the minions were better in loam/tackier condtions, ie soil.

Anyway, at the end of the day tyre choice only makes a couple of seconds difference, and I'll be losing by more like 20 seconds!

lol^

 

[Mulestar]

Specialized clutch. You'll destroy it in the dry but its like a minion with chunkier braking knobs. Michelin comp 24 with the intermediate knobs might fit the bill for the rear as well.

...That is if you aren't set on maxxis.

 

[Tomasis]

Specialized clutch. You'll destroy it in the dry but its like a minion with chunkier braking knobs. Michelin comp 24 with the intermediate knobs might fit the bill for the rear as well.

...That is if you aren't set on maxxis.

how about new michelins? do u mean RockR as for rear?

GripR 2,5 (front) and 2,25 RockR (rear) would be good as allround tires? Im running comp 16 front and comp24 in back but tires are old from 2003

 

[- seb]

...That is if you aren't set on maxxis.

I kinda am, it's what my sponsor can supply me with. That and Schwalbes maybe.

 

[sbabuser]

I've been on Maxxis dhr and f's primarily, but am curious about Schwalbes. Anyone running them ghetto tubeless? How much work to set up and how is wear/ grip in dry and dusty compared to Maxxis?

 

[pirate28]

No mention of Ardents so far... How do you guys like them in dry/loose conditions?

 

[Zark]

No mention of Ardents so far... How do you guys like them in dry/loose conditions?

Its a good trail bike tire

 

[pirate28]

Its a good trail bike tire

Interesting... http://www.maxxis.com/Bicycle/Downhill/Ardent.aspx

 

[bullcrew]

Muddy Marys rock in that type of terrain I just finished 4 hard riding days in socals dry dusty loose over hard and ran the guey glueys.... hooked up perfect except for a chute at the intense trail where It was 6-8 of dust and sand on a blown out corner on a chute to steep to even think of stopping. The crash was my fault way too hot and came in too hard knowing this run I pushed it a bit there... so the tires rock for this and aside of a broken ankle it was a smoking few days....

Muddy Marys all the way...........

 

[KavuRider]

Interesting... http://www.maxxis.com/Bicycle/Downhill/Ardent.aspx

Ardents are great tires actually...but you have to be REALLY aggressive, or they will dump you on your ass. We have hardpack/rocky terrain here in AZ and they did very well.

Telonix are nice, but lots of rolling resistance and I found that they don't drift predictably.

I really dug ST High Rollers in powder dirt actually...even on the steeps. Minions as well. But I'm partial to Maxxis. I keep trying other tires, but just end up going back to Minions.

 

[BmxConvert]

I agree on the Ardents dumping you, atleast in the 2.4 size.

I haven't had an issue in the 29x2.24 size as the lugs are all the same depth(but the 29 is not relevant here).

The center lugs on the 26x2.4 is tall and the side lugs are mid height with almost nothing in the middle. You really do need to really push these tires to make them work well, or as mentioned above, they'll drop you ass over tea kettle.

I'm still trying to figure them out and have been handing over a few pairs to friends for them to try them out as well. They seem to do well in a mildly dry, semi loose loamy/light underbrush type conditions.

 

[pirate28]

Ardents are great tires actually...but you have to be REALLY aggressive, or they will dump you on your ass.

Well, I must not be riding these things aggressively enough, because I don't find them confidence inspiring at all. Been riding the 2.6s for about 2 months now, and I think I'm getting ready to put my Minions back on. (or maybe get some High Rollers after seeing all the love for them in this thread)
I was just curious what other peoples experience had been with the Ardents.

 

[slowitdown]

Ardents are excellent. If they're dumping you, you haven't figured them out yet.

Rolling them slowly onto the cornering edge knobs does NOT work. Don't ride them like a Nevegal or other tire that has knobs all the way across the profile.

The problem isn't the knob height.

The problem is being tentative.

I have used the Ardents in the fast-rolling trail tire 2.25 size and the DH 2.4 size. I suggest being a lot more aggressive. They are the best tires I've ever used when judged as an overall combination of traction and rolling speed, but they do have a tendency to drift/slide somewhat unexpectedly if you corner tentatively.

You need some lean angle to engage the side knobs. If you prefer to corner with your bike more upright, you're going to have to change your cornering style or stop using the Ardents.

+++++++++

DISCLOSURE: I test tires for Maxxis, so if you think my praise for the tire is excessive... well, I don't get paid to ride them, but I do love them.

 

[Pslide]

Makes me laugh every time I read about these Ardents. You have to ride them a certain way, and they only work at certain lean angles, but they are GREAT TIRES!

 

[slowitdown]

Makes me laugh every time I read about these Ardents. You have to ride them a certain way, and they only work at certain lean angles, but they are GREAT TIRES!

Makes me laugh when someone thinks he spotted something funny, but really didn't.

They're great if you ride them correctly. Like any tire. A semi-slick is GREAT for the proper conditions, eh?

Love those Ohio-livin' "hotshots" who are smart-guys on the internet. Ohio, land of the sickter-gnar!

 

[Pslide]

Makes me laugh when someone thinks he spotted something funny, but really didn't.

They're great if you ride them correctly. Like any tire. A semi-slick is GREAT for the proper conditions, eh?

Love those Ohio-livin' "hotshots" who are smart-guys on the internet. Ohio, land of the sickter-gnar!

Geez dude, how old are you?

All I'm saying is that I prefer a tire that delivers grip at all lean angles. Because there are many corners that don't require maximum lean angle.

Ohio's just the latest stop in life by the way, have ridden and raced all over this beautiful planet.

 

[- seb]

Well for the weekend I have HRs, DHFs, a DHR that I'm keen to try having never used one, and a new set of wetscreams. If the right tyre aint in there somewhere, I don't know where it is!