[Cannon]

Hi, i´m going to order my framekit soon, but unsure which colour....
Has anyone a photo of the pink/grey one?

What about a DHX Air on the sunday?
Should work well cause it needs not too much pressure (thanx DW),am i right?

Finally the crank quest, whatr about a 170mm crank?
Will i hit the grount too often?

Thanx for your answers, Cannon

 

[Eggzoi]

I think DHX air is not recommended but no personal experience.
170 mm cranks will be fine, I run longish cranks (no idea what, came off the hardtail but I think 175mm) and it's not a big problem, you'll hit them a bit but you get used to it and work around it. That said, if I was getting new cranks next week they would be the shortest ones practical (165mm?)

 

[BJ-]

if your going for a light weight shock why not consider the Manitou Revox ISX? (provided it'll fit) it comes stock with a Ti spring, weighs the same as the DHX Air and wont overheat.

i ran 170mm Holzfellers on a sunday at the start of the season for a few months with no problems. its all about adapting your riding style to suit the bike.

and pink, well...if your game go for it. i would have given it a go but got a morewood for next season instead.

 

[SylentK]

Color - That's your choice.

Air Shock - Only if you're "light". IMO about 170lbs or less. This is what I've heard from a guy actually running that setup.

Cranks - I'd run a 165 if I were you. Especially if you're racing. Yes, you CAN run longer and get away with it. But take it from someone who learned the hard way, just run the 165's. That will save yourself an extra set of pedals and a couple "insta dumps" where your crank/pedal caught on something unsuspected at mach 2 and off the bike you flew.

 

[hungryleprican]

I didn't know the pink and grey came as a framekit.

 

[SpasticJack]

Anyone know when the 07 frames/link kits will actually be available?

 

[dante]

just a note, the revox will not fit the Sunday. we've asked for some of the new X-4 and X-6 shocks to test fit, so will have to wait and see. as for pictures, there are all of the pics in the "Iron Horse 2007 website now up" thread further down the page.

 

[dw]

DHX shock pressure / settings

After a load of testing on the latest dw-link Sunday tunes, here is the recommended DHX setup:

Boost Valve: Crank it all the way in. We found that it didn't make a big difference in mid-stroke travel, it was still butter, but we could get more ramp at the end for bottom out resistance.

PSI: Start at about 110psi and work from there.

Low speed compression (Propedal knob): About 3-4 clicks in is where I start and adjust from there.

THese setting also work great on 7POINT. Pass it on.

Dave

 

[dh_newbie]

I haven't try to run the air on sunday. I have a friend who is using DHX air and he think the Air is good compare with his experience to coil shock. His weigh is 150 lbs.

I have using the 170 crank and it always hit the ground. I have using the Fox at the front end and my bb measure around 13.9 - 14".

Then I change to use the 165 and it work fine for me.

 

[karpi]

do the 07 links and shock bolts make that much difference over the 06?

 

[S.K.C.]

DW:

DHX shock pressure / settings

After a load of testing on the latest dw-link Sunday tunes, here is the recommended DHX setup:

Boost Valve: Crank it all the way in. We found that it didn't make a big difference in mid-stroke travel, it was still butter, but we could get more ramp at the end for bottom out resistance.

PSI: Start at about 110psi and work from there.

Low speed compression (Propedal knob): About 3-4 clicks in is where I start and adjust from there.

THese setting also work great on 7POINT. Pass it on.

Dave

Dave - you read my mind - was just going to ask about DHX set-up on a Sunday... Yep - Travis can confirm it - I've parted ways with my Demo 8.

I love this bike, but for some reason I seem to be bottoming the sh!t out of my DHX. Also - my small bump sensitivity is horrible...

Spring Rate: 300# Steel Spring
Boost Valve: 65 - 70% in
Air Pressure: between 80 and 100psi
Pre-Load: 2 turns...
Pro-Pedal: 1 - 2 Clicks.
Sag: ~ 1" maybe a bit more (w/o armor and gear) about 35% sag

I weigh 170 w/o gear and maybe 180 with everything on?

But right now riding around town w/o gear it seems like it still wants to bottom even though I've maxed out my pre-load and added some extra Boost Valve (initially I just had 1 turn of Pre-Load and Boost Valve at 45 to 50% in).

dw Some Questions For You:

1.) I was thinking of going to a 350# Ti spring, but I wanted to have the most supple travel and small bump sensitivity possible w/o bottoming out (I race a lot). Would this spring rate be too high?

2.) You were saying I could run the Boost Valve at 100% turned in and this won't effect small-bump sensitivtiy?
(So maybe I could stay with a 300# spring, decrease the pre-load and run the Boost at 100% ?? )

3.) Since I'm switching to Ti, will this effect the "observed" spring rate that you feel when you ride it? In other words if a steel and Ti spring are listed as the same spring rate, will the Ti feel more progressive due to material or spring winds? (Maybe not necessarily your area of expertise, but I'd be interested in your take on it)

4.) I can't find this info ANYWHERE (I.H. website or otherwise), but what are the proper torque values (inch-pounds) for the 06' DW-Linkage pivots on a Sunday? I've got the feeling my suspension is binding up somwhere, but won't know until I loosen and re-torque everything.

5.) Once I have the linkage torqued to spec. what will give me the best small bump sensitivity? Low spring rate, low air pressures in the reservoir, zero to 2 clicks of Pro-Pedal, or all of the above?

 

[Acadian]

DW:

Dave - you read my mind - was just going to ask about DHX set-up on a Sunday... Yep - Travis can confirm it - I've parted ways with my Demo 8.

I love this bike, but for some reason I seem to be bottoming the sh!t out of my DHX. Also - my small bump sensitivity is horrible...

Spring Rate: 300# Steel Spring
Boost Valve: 65 - 70% in
Air Pressure: between 80 and 100psi
Pre-Load: 2 turns...
Pro-Pedal: 1 - 2 Clicks.
Sag: ~ 1" maybe a bit more (w/o armor and gear) about 35% sag

I weigh 170 w/o gear and maybe 180 with everything on?

But right now riding around town w/o gear it seems like it still wants to bottom even though I've maxed out my pre-load and added some extra Boost Valve (initially I just had 1 turn of Pre-Load and Boost Valve at 45 to 50% in).

dw Some Questions For You:

1.) I was thinking of going to a 350# Ti spring, but I wanted to have the most supple travel and small bump sensitivity possible w/o bottoming out (I race a lot). Would this spring rate be too high?

2.) You were saying I could run the Boost Valve at 100% turned in and this won't effect small-bump sensitivtiy?
(So maybe I could stay with a 300# spring, decrease the pre-load and run the Boost at 100% ?? )

3.) Since I'm switching to Ti, will this effect the "observed" spring rate that you feel when you ride it? In other words if a steel and Ti spring are listed as the same spring rate, will the Ti feel more progressive due to material or spring winds? (Maybe not necessarily your area of expertise, but I'd be interested in your take on it)

4.) I can't find this info ANYWHERE (I.H. website or otherwise), but what are the proper torque values (inch-pounds) for the 06' DW-Linkage pivots on a Sunday? I've got the feeling my suspension is binding up somwhere, but won't know until I loosen and re-torque everything.

5.) Once I have the linkage torqued to spec. what will give me the best small bump sensitivity? Low spring rate, low air pressures in the reservoir, zero to 2 clicks of Pro-Pedal, or all of the above?

If you have 2-3 turns of pre-load, then the spring is too soft. You might want to try a 350#, although a 300 should be right for your weight. Like Dave suggested, I fun full BO on mine and it’s perfect – doesn’t affect small bump sensitivity. From my experience it’s the propedal and boost valve psi’s that renders the ride harsher (if you use too much).

Here are the torque specs for you - these numbers are for the new 07 links, but I'm sure pre 07 links use similar torque specs.
Shock upper Pivot: 13N.m
Center upper link pivot: 26 N.m
Rear upper link pivot: 13 N.m
Rear lower link pivot: 13 N.m
Front lower link pivot: 13 N.m

 

[vitox]

the bottom out adjuster on the DHX absolutely should not affect anything at the beginning of the stroke, if anything it could make the pressure rise a bit in the boost valve if you fiddle with the BO and dont compensate the pressure afterwards.
what will do bad things for your initial compliance, just as acadian points out, is preload, 3 turns is a lot of energy stored in the spring and you will have to overcome that every time you want the shock to start compressing. of course a stiffer spring might sound counterintuitive but give it a shot it might be the solution you are out after.

 

[S.K.C.]

Vitox, Acadian - thanks so much guys!

Yeah - it always seem with me that I fall right in the middle of the adjustment range (from suspension to Dainese Next Jackets...:biggrin: - but oh well)

O.K. - I just tried a ride with the Bottom Out/Boost Valve (I think I was giving the Bottom Out control the wrong label before...) turned in like 95%... along with that I reduced pre load to 1 turn on the collar and ran about 90 psi.

It felt REALLY soft, and much more sensitive to small bump - but going down stairs, it felt like the rear end was slowing the bike down form time to time. Maybe my rebound is too slow...?
I can bottom it just by pumping down on the pedals... still to soft? It's not a hard "Clang" bottom, just that it seems the bumper is making contact.

Acadian - where did you get those torque specs???... You tha MAN!

Vitox - thanks for the additional input - hmmm... I'll see if I can borrow a 350# spring from someone.

 

[sbabuser]

I'm about 184 w/o gear, and happy w/ my 350lb spring with minimal preload. I wish I'd have heard about running the boost valve all the way in - I had one section at Keystone that always bottomed me out and I kept adding psi until it stopped. Think I only got up to 125psi or so, and small bumps never bothered me.
Ah well, now the bike is in pieces and I won't get to try out that bit of tuning until I get a new fork...
But to the OP - 5mm isn't that much, I say run those 170 cranks unless they're driving you crazy, then look around for some 165's.

 

[manwithgun]

It's not a hard "Clang" bottom, just that it seems the bumper is making contact...

This is where the knees come into play; you bend them and you've got yourself another 8" of travel. I've been 160lbs for most of my life and have found the 300# to be the ticket. If I were to pack on another 20lbs in the off season, I'd consider a heavier spring... hell, I'm clipping pedals in the straights as it is.

 

[S.K.C.]

Yes... I am aware of my knees.

Unfortunately, I have a bad habit of wanting to cram the bike into the ground when landing a drop or jump, so I don't compress as much as I should.

But even when I do compress the landing, I still bottom a bit.

I'm getting better though.

 

[Garrett 0 P]

so should a 145 pound kid like me purchase a DHX air or coil if i am to be racing downhill? i dont want to really go coil shock because a ti spring cost way to rediculously much

 

[ska todd]

Unless you're using the bike for Sonoma or Sea Otter, go w/ the DHX coil vs the Air.

As for bottoming w/ proper sag and adjustments, contact Fox. I've seen a couple DHX's w/ double bumpers to mellow the harsh.

-ska todd

 

[davetrump]

I've seen a couple DHX's w/ double bumpers to mellow the harsh.
-ska todd

i did this to mine and it made a HUGE difference... stock fox bottom out bumpers suck, but if you double them up you loose a lot of the harsh bottoming and do not feel any loss of travel.

even better modification is to get your hands on a 5th element bottom out bumper. those are the best in my opnion.

oh yeah... Todd, the new bikes look HOT

 

[Red Bull]

i did this to mine and it made a HUGE difference... stock fox bottom out bumpers suck, but if you double them up you loose a lot of the harsh bottoming and do not feel any loss of travel.

even better modification is to get your hands on a 5th element bottom out bumper. those are the best in my opnion.

oh yeah... Todd, the new bikes look HOT

are you and your brother riding for bliss?

 

[Cannon]

Thanx for your reply guys!
Helps alot but still need a photo of the pink/grey frameset, the drawings of the framesets in the dealer documents do not give a good idea of the real look.
And we still have no catalog in europe...............

Greetz from EU, Cannon

 

[xc skier]

Here you go...a photo of pink/grey sunday from descent-world

 

[RaID]

definately dont go with 170mm cranks

youll end up banging your pedals quite regularly on the ground, this gets really annoying especially when youre trying to get those few pedal strokes between corners in race runs. Theve definately caused me to have a couple of crashes. Ill be changing to 165 soon.

 

[dw]

DW:

Dave - you read my mind - was just going to ask about DHX set-up on a Sunday... Yep - Travis can confirm it - I've parted ways with my Demo 8.

I love this bike, but for some reason I seem to be bottoming the sh!t out of my DHX. Also - my small bump sensitivity is horrible...

Spring Rate: 300# Steel Spring
Boost Valve: 65 - 70% in
Air Pressure: between 80 and 100psi
Pre-Load: 2 turns...
Pro-Pedal: 1 - 2 Clicks.
Sag: ~ 1" maybe a bit more (w/o armor and gear) about 35% sag

I weigh 170 w/o gear and maybe 180 with everything on?

But right now riding around town w/o gear it seems like it still wants to bottom even though I've maxed out my pre-load and added some extra Boost Valve (initially I just had 1 turn of Pre-Load and Boost Valve at 45 to 50% in).

dw Some Questions For You:

1.) I was thinking of going to a 350# Ti spring, but I wanted to have the most supple travel and small bump sensitivity possible w/o bottoming out (I race a lot). Would this spring rate be too high?

At your weight, you could probably go with either a 300 or 350. I think Heikki Hall is running a 300 still and he is about your weight. If you are having bottoming problems, then you may want to explore the 350 and see how it works for you. More spring will let you use less damping to try to control the wheel. Its a balance that is not the same for every rider's style, but typically you want to go for the lightest spring possible without huge bottoming problems. You can try a 5th bottom out bumper like Dave suggested too. That may work well for you.

2.) You were saying I could run the Boost Valve at 100% turned in and this won't effect small-bump sensitivtiy?
(So maybe I could stay with a 300# spring, decrease the pre-load and run the Boost at 100% ?? )

The development league (Lars Tribus, Dave Smutok, Len Hornidge) and I spent a couple weeks in Whislter evaluating shocks and dialing in tunes on all of the 07 bikes this summer. We found no noticable decrease in smal bump sensitivity on the Iron Horse tune shocks with the boost valve cranked all the way in. I actually had a prototype shock that went 5.25 turns in, the black hex was 2.5mm indented from the face of the blue cap, and it felt unreal. Who knows what the valving inside is...

With a DHX and an 06-07 Iron Horse tune on Sunday and 7POINT, crank that boost valve all the way closed.

Boost valve shouldn't affect preload, only propedal will affect that, and not too much.

3.) Since I'm switching to Ti, will this effect the "observed" spring rate that you feel when you ride it? In other words if a steel and Ti spring are listed as the same spring rate, will the Ti feel more progressive due to material or spring winds? (Maybe not necessarily your area of expertise, but I'd be interested in your take on it)

Spring rate is identical with ti and steel. Spring rate is a measurement of force/distance. The difference in spring WEIGHT and unsprung mass equates to about the same difference as removing the 18T cog only from your rear cassette.

4.) I can't find this info ANYWHERE (I.H. website or otherwise), but what are the proper torque values (inch-pounds) for the 06' DW-Linkage pivots on a Sunday? I've got the feeling my suspension is binding up somwhere, but won't know until I loosen and re-torque everything.

Shock upper Pivot: 13N.m
Center upper link pivot: 26 N.m
Rear upper link pivot: 13 N.m
Rear lower link pivot: 13 N.m
Front lower link pivot: 13 N.m

5.) Once I have the linkage torqued to spec. what will give me the best small bump sensitivity? Low spring rate, low air pressures in the reservoir, zero to 2 clicks of Pro-Pedal, or all of the above?

The DHX and 5th respond differently to tuning. Correct spring rate and the correct internal shock tune are going to make the biggest difference. Everything else is tune to flavor. Start with my baseline and work from there. This will give you a good indication if you need to go with a stiffer spring etc...

Hope this helps. Somebody please save this so when the questions come up next time I dont have to re-type it all!

Dave

 

[S.K.C.]

DW - Thanx, you tha man!:biggrin:

I really appreciate your time and effort for the responses.

I'm way ahead of you - I've already saved your post to a MS Word doc on my computer. In the future if anyone needs it (you Todd, Travis, etc.) just shoot me a PM - I'm building a Tech. Library of sorts on my computer with Sunday related subjects.

EDIT: Tell Lars "Congratulations" on his soon-to-be fatherhood status. I see him at Diablo from time to time. Probably one of the nicest guys I've met.