Whats your take, do you think that a bike with an old suspension design and a nice rear shock would better perform something with a new high tech rear suspensiopn design and a decent rear shock? Whats more important, the damping or the design?
Suspension components vs Suspension design?
- Thread starter SBDownhillRacer
- Start date
That's like asking, "What's more important, the engine or the handling in a car?"
It's not a useful question because one can't be good without the other. A good suspension design with a bad damper will feel like crap. By the same token, a good damper on a lousy suspension design will also feel like crap.
IMO, I would rather have a suspension design that does not rely on inherent traits of the damper (e.g. a pedaling platform) - that is, I guess I'm saying I'd rather have a stellar suspension system than a stellar damper if I had to choose - but a smartly designed suspension system is likely going to be designed to work harmoniously with some characteristics of a damper.
That's like...
Wow.
Hey, man, don't bogart the doobie.
It's not a useful question because one can't be good without the other. A good suspension design with a bad damper will feel like crap. By the same token, a good damper on a lousy suspension design will also feel like crap.
IMO, I would rather have a suspension design that does not rely on inherent traits of the damper (e.g. a pedaling platform) - that is, I guess I'm saying I'd rather have a stellar suspension system than a stellar damper if I had to choose - but a smartly designed suspension system is likely going to be designed to work harmoniously with some characteristics of a damper.
Wow, man.
That's like...
Wow.
Hey, man, don't bogart the doobie.
Seems to me that BV got it right. At the same time, a really nice shock on an older suspension design will make a world of difference and will save you a ton o money. For example, if you ride a Bullit and switch from a beat Fox R to, lets say an brand new Avy or a DHX 5, the change won't be small.
I hope you're not saying my F.U.C. bike is a 'turd', Dave...
But honestly, the above responses are correct IMO...Well, with the obvious exception of the CCDB...
But honestly, the above responses are correct IMO...Well, with the obvious exception of the CCDB...
imo when you get to the amount of adjustments like the ccdb, its getting pretty silly.
there is always a fine line between technology that will make you ride faster and technology that would make you spend more time fiddleling with your bike.
edit, i haven't ridden a ccdb, so i could be totally blown away by it and take what i said back. but untill then....
there is always a fine line between technology that will make you ride faster and technology that would make you spend more time fiddleling with your bike.
edit, i haven't ridden a ccdb, so i could be totally blown away by it and take what i said back. but untill then....
It's only got 5 adjustments including preload.
You can actually tune it so that it takes up to 30 seconds off your race result by interrupting the space-time continuum...Just saying...
But like Bicyclist said, it's only got 5 adjustments (compared to a DHX with Pro-pedal, boost valvle, pre-load, air assist, & rebound or a 5th Elephant with beginning stroke adjustment, ending stroke adjustment, air assist, pre-load, & rebound), and the nifty thing about it is they really work w/o having to turn the knob 7 times...Plus, I've had one on my V-10 for a little while now, and after some experimenting with the adjustments (and reading the well written manual, which btw, is another novel concept), it really is a quantum leap IMO...I rode another long travel VPP bike yesterday with a DHX on it, and I thought there was significant difference (i.e. I'd have hard time riding the DHX again)...Of course, it was one little run and people set up their shocks different, but that's my take...
But like Bicyclist said, it's only got 5 adjustments (compared to a DHX with Pro-pedal, boost valvle, pre-load, air assist, & rebound or a 5th Elephant with beginning stroke adjustment, ending stroke adjustment, air assist, pre-load, & rebound), and the nifty thing about it is they really work w/o having to turn the knob 7 times...Plus, I've had one on my V-10 for a little while now, and after some experimenting with the adjustments (and reading the well written manual, which btw, is another novel concept), it really is a quantum leap IMO...I rode another long travel VPP bike yesterday with a DHX on it, and I thought there was significant difference (i.e. I'd have hard time riding the DHX again)...Of course, it was one little run and people set up their shocks different, but that's my take...
Good suspension design is where it's at. It is no coincidence that most of the best bikes on the market right now work best with the most simple shocks that various manufacturers make. When you have your leverage ratio dialed even a simple damper does a great job. Adding a fancier damper can make the bike even better in some cases, but not all.
fair enough i guess i am just used to my dhx where the only thing you adjust is pro pedal(ocationally) and rebound, which you pretty much set and leave. boost valve, air pressure(min) and volume is set and leave too.
but then a perfect shox for me would just have rebound and some way of adjusting bottom out, ie roco. or a dhx with no pp.
to reply to the topic, imo design would be more important. but it depends on what you mean by a crappy shox, if its elastomers and stuff then of course no way. a shox with a working rebound vavling can go a long way. ie van rc.
I beg to differ. Simple, well planned single pivots (think Orange, Morewood) work excellently with the proper shock. Without a good shock, these bikes would not stand out on the radar of DH bikes the way they do. That's not to say your statement is false, its just not completely correct. There has to be a good balance between suspension design and shock performance. They go hand in hand.
Well, once I got my DB dialed in to where I like it, I haven't touched it...It's really not that complicated...I don't even have to check to see how much air has leaked out of the piggyback...
Ummm, you are agreeing with me you know!
from what you said i took "good suspension design" to mean more of linkage frames, ie vpps, dw-link, the racelink design, etc. wasn't quite sure if you were including well designed single pivots in that bucket.
A simple single pivot can be just as good. The only thing that matters (for the most part) is the leverage ratio and the wheelpath, not how it is achieved.
very well put.
hmm, i donno wtf i was thinking. maybe i am just jelous that it cost 2x as much as what i think i 'need'.
