[bizutch]

http://asheville.craigslist.org/bik/3735956777.html

 

[Tomasis]

Jeesh have those things already been around that long? Time flies.

The conversation I usually have with people (and had with myself) just revolves on what you'd really use the bike for. If it's a trail bike, meaning you pedal up and down, there's nothing about the current 5 spot that will hold you back compared to any of the slightly longer travel trail bikes out there like the reigns, mojos and nomads. In fact in most of the places people ride those things, I'd say the 5 spot is faster. If you really are looking for more of a bike park type ride, then yeah, don't get a 5 spot. But I ride mine on what most people around here shuttle big bikes to. And I ride everything but the big dumb flat huckeroo landings, and ride it WAY faster than those guys. The only thing I really changed is the headangle.

And just FYI I'm not the kind of idiot that walks around going 'you don't need a bike that big' as I poke my way down something a million miles an hour slower than guys on bigger bikes either. Those dorks drive me nuts. When I say ride, I mean it.

But I do own a 7" travel 'freeride' bike too. But I do things on that bike that I'd never do on a nomad/reign/ibis either.

But there are a shlt ton of really really good trail bikes out there now. I'm not dumb enough to think the 5spot is the end all be all of that genre. It's just a good one that gets too often overlooked because of the travel thing.

we sometimes look at limited things, not the whole view. IT is just a bike and ride it! (as your point was made in your post). It is not like that next year frame offers big improvements over ride.

Funny that I do climb up with HA 63.5 in front and I dont see huge difference.

 

[kidwoo]

Funny that I do climb up with HA 63.5 in front and I dont see huge difference.

Depends on what you're climbing obviously

 

[Tomasis]

Depends on what you're climbing obviously

lol

im sure I got whole Life time to climb up that damn hill.

 

[djjohnr]

Jeesh have those things already been around that long? Time flies.

The conversation I usually have with people (and had with myself) just revolves on what you'd really use the bike for. If it's a trail bike, meaning you pedal up and down, there's nothing about the current 5 spot that will hold you back compared to any of the slightly longer travel trail bikes out there like the reigns, mojos and nomads. In fact in most of the places people ride those things, I'd say the 5 spot is faster. If you really are looking for more of a bike park type ride, then yeah, don't get a 5 spot. But I ride mine on what most people around here shuttle big bikes to. And I ride everything but the big dumb flat huckeroo landings, and ride it WAY faster than those guys. The only thing I really changed is the headangle.

And just FYI I'm not the kind of idiot that walks around going 'you don't need a bike that big' as I poke my way down something a million miles an hour slower than guys on bigger bikes either. Those dorks drive me nuts. When I say ride, I mean it.

But I do own a 7" travel 'freeride' bike too. But I do things on that bike that I'd never do on a nomad/reign/ibis either.

But there are a shlt ton of really really good trail bikes out there now. I'm not dumb enough to think the 5spot is the end all be all of that genre. It's just a good one that gets too often overlooked because of the travel thing.

Yup, for just a trail bike the 5 Spot would be ok. The Reign X serves double duty for me as a trail bike as well as the trip bike when I can't bring my DH bike. In those cases I put my 40 on it for resort riding.

 

[Vrock]

I loved my RFX, but I also realized that I could do most everything that I did on it with a 5.5 spot, especially with better damping/fork technology and brakes/wheels. The RFX (was actually a 6 pack initially) was an awesome ride, no doubt, but it was heavy and sorry to disappoint the FSR guys, but it feels like pedaling through a wet mattress when you are faced with a hill and it starts squatting in a high gear (in granny ring it wasn't as bad). Many of the rides I was doing was with someone on a 5spot, so maybe that had something to do with it, although he later got a Nomad, which still wasn't quite as beefy as the RFX.

The original RFX was a beefy freeride bike when 6" was a lot of travel, and basically "freeride". The "Freeride" thing ballooned up to the 13lb Knolly Vtach, and then came back down a bit, but I think the "freeride" term is one of the worst out there. Very few people actually ride a heavy bike uphill for the downhills. They'll ride a trail bike or bike like the later generation 6pack/RFX, but I'd say 99% of the guys riding anything that was really a "freeride" bike were always just doing shuttle runs, and in that area, they would have been better served by a DH bike, maybe one with lighter components, but a DH bike would have been a far better choice.

So that's what I see today. Sure, a lot of people *think* they are going to ride up a hill and do the same trails that people are doing on their DH bike, but it's such a small market that most manufacturers have seen the light and no longer make such ridiculous bikes. They do make some "mini" DH bikes these days, that are very slack and poor climbers, yet they are lighter and nimble and make fun of the smoother downhill trails and those that can use the skills. This too is a niche and usually a bike for someone that already has a few, not a "do it all" bike like the 5 spot or even the RFX.

I don't like having to have 20 different bikes, but newer 5spot is built heavier than the older generation, it has more travel, it uses the travel better/is more supple, it can take 160mm of front travel just fine, and pretty slack with that to boot. It's meant to be that "do everything" bike, and you don't have to set it up with only 140mm of travel in the front or skinny XC tires and wheels.

Plus, you'll think you're all bada$$ on your 160mm RFX and some guy on a 140mm (or less!) FS 29er just rode the same thing you barely made it though. The market for certain segments of bikes is getting smaller (while the market for others is getting bigger). 3-4" travel FS 26ers are about dead. They are just basically a "oh yeah, we make a 26er version of our 29er bike too!" now. A 29er hardtail will go at least as fast, weighs the same or less, gets better efficiency than that 26er FS XC bike. Ok, riders at the radically small size may not do as well, but some small ones are riding 29ers, and if that doesn't work exactly, 650b is along to fill the gaps.

I do not believe 29ers will EVER take over DH bikes, because the travel limitation is too great and even though you can keep speed better, there's a difference between rocking a 29er XC bike and a 29er DH bike with DH rims ,DH tubes (maybe), DH rubber, and all of that rotational mass. That's a different level of sluggish, and while it may work for some places, 650b probably has a much greater future and 29er will probably never make it in this area.

Some bikes like the RFX are caught in between too, and it's a good decision not to produce them. You are fighting for a market share that is getting smaller and smaller, against bikes like the Tallboy LT, new Spec Enduro 29er, which will weigh the same or less and be more capable in rough terrain. Even the 100mm travel 29ers can often give the long travel 26ers a run for their money in the rough terrain.

This keeps the 5spot a little bit more in a niche, it's more nimble, not super heavy, can be adequately slack, etc. If you want a more sluggish bike, there are way too many choices and I for one wouldn't buy a 160-170mm DW RFX, even though I've owned 3 turners and love the craftsmanship and design. Why? I'd rather ride a light tallboy LTc or 29er enduro with a 150mm fork, and if I was being realistic and honest with myself, I'd only build the 170mm DW RFX to optimize it for DH and it'd be better to have a slopestyle or just full on DH bike. I'd make that decision based on my terrain and how many bikes I could afford.

It was a bad decision. I agree with you that it's a very small market, but sometimes a few people can be very important. If you only sell Trailbikes, you only get boring people in the forums, if you build long travel bikes you get a lot of pictures of people doing crazy stuff, and that's a lot of fun. I'm a trailbiker, but I don't watch "trailbikes videos", I watch Freeride and DH and I dream that one day I could go Downhill like the pros....

So it's all about planning, if you think that you are not going to sell hundreds of RFXs, plan ahead and design it with that in mind, don't go crazy with the CNC Parts, use the same tubing as other bikes, build less sizes, only one color, etc... I don't want Turner to lose a lot of money but if the bike brake even, it's a good business.

 

[William42]

It was a bad decision. I agree with you that it's a very small market, but sometimes a few people can be very important. If you only sell Trailbikes, you only get boring people in the forums, if you build long travel bikes you get a lot of pictures of people doing crazy stuff, and that's a lot of fun. I'm a trailbiker, but I don't watch "trailbikes videos", I watch Freeride and DH and I dream that one day I could go Downhill like the pros....

So it's all about planning, if you think that you are not going to sell hundreds of RFXs, plan ahead and design it with that in mind, don't go crazy with the CNC Parts, use the same tubing as other bikes, build less sizes, only one color, etc... I don't want Turner to lose a lot of money but if the bike brake even, it's a good business.

Just ask kidwoo to post some videos on his spot. He's pretty handy with a video camera, a bicycle, and being in the pocket of turner bikes. What a shill. Teasing aside, he really does do some big stuff on his spot, I'm one of the goobers who rides the trail on my DH bike while he's cruising past on his spot uphill and downhill.

 

[djjohnr]

Just ask kidwoo to post some videos on his spot. He's pretty handy with a video camera, a bicycle, and being in the pocket of turner bikes. What a shill. Teasing aside, he really does do some big stuff on his spot, I'm one of the goobers who rides the trail on my DH bike while he's cruising past on his spot uphill and downhill.

It's not whether or not you can make a bike work on specific terrain, but what kind of bike you want to ride on that terrain. Judging from the amount of 6" bikes I see on the trails, I think Turner has under-estimated demand. Giant, Specialized, Intense, Santa Cruz and plenty of other companies have been doing we'll with both 140mm and 160mm models, and the Turner brand has a more loyal following then any of those others.

 

[kidwoo]

the Turner brand has a more loyal following then any of those others.

Mostly because the specialized 160mm bikes I've ridden fold in half in corners compared to the 140mm turner bike I own.

Just a matter of priorities

I think you've got a pretty sweet ride though. I was looking at those things when I was shopping last. I like my trail bike, but I'm not taking a 5spot to whistler with a 40 on it.

 

[kidwoo]

He's pretty handy with a video camera, a bicycle, and being in the pocket of turner bikes.

Yeah I should show you the turner sultans, tnt/horst 5 spots, and 650b burners I own.

Turner makes lots of bikes that aren't that awesome. I'm just vocal about the ones that are.

 

[William42]

Yeah I should show you the turner sultans, tnt/horst 5 spots, and 650b burners I own.

Turner makes lots of bikes that aren't that awesome. I'm just vocal about the ones that are.

You own a 650b burner? god its worse then I thought! In seriouslyness, you own/have owned more high end bikes from more companies then years I've lived. I don't really have much room to tease you.