It would have been nice if we were asked first
But...
It looks Sweet
Thanks!
But...
It looks Sweet
Thanks!
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Thanks for the work at Colonnade but...
- Thread starter fuzzycatnuts
- Start date
Yes, the end result looks like pretty damn good work, but...
Not only is it just common courtesy to ask the builder first, this is a public park and it's dangerous to change a line that people have been riding a certain way for over a year now. Especially the fastest, biggest air line in the park! Even Whistler won't change something without putting up big "sh-t has changed" signs... and they don't have all the lawsuit paranoia we have.
The Colonnade maintenance agreement is on the desk of the Seattle Parks Dept's lawyers and risk management team as I type. I just got an update yesterday, and they are still considering just how to handle the park from a maintenance and liability perspective. Random building is a sure-fire way to cause problems for everyone.
So, in general, please have respect for any builder and don't change anything without asking first. Of course, if you see a rock or debris that has fallen onto a line, please pick it up to make the trail safer. If you see a broken bottle or garbage laying around, it's totally awesome when peeps chip in and help keep the park clean. But please don't change anything without permission.
For any questions, issues or requests related to Colonnade or Duthie, you can contact Evergreen at 206-524-2900 or trails@evergreenmtb.org. Or just shoot me an email (Mike Westra, mwestra@evergreenmtb.org). I do want to hear from you!
Pretty soon we should have some kind of a Seattle City Parks hotline to call for Colonnade maintenance issues, enhancement requests, etc.
Thanks a ton for understanding!
Mike said it all. Contact Evergreen before grabbing a tool. They can provide their own or contact the trail builders for approval.
Although the work sounds like quality, I would be pretty upset if someone changed my handy work without asking. Not to mention the liability.
We need to get those sign's Mike mentioned to indicate when features have changed. They would be an effective risk mitigation point for the Seattle Parks Department.
Although the work sounds like quality, I would be pretty upset if someone changed my handy work without asking. Not to mention the liability.
We need to get those sign's Mike mentioned to indicate when features have changed. They would be an effective risk mitigation point for the Seattle Parks Department.
We know who did this. Has anyone contacted them directly to let them know?
I will leave it up to the others to call them out publicly if deemed necessary.
Even those of us who have put tons of hours into building our own features at colonnade would NEVER even dare to make big changes without consulting Mike Westra first. So you can imagine how big of a kick in the nuts it is to have stuff changed without notifying the builders or managers.
If they do good work, let's get them down in Colonnade on a workparty helping us out so their goals align with ours.
I will leave it up to the others to call them out publicly if deemed necessary.
Even those of us who have put tons of hours into building our own features at colonnade would NEVER even dare to make big changes without consulting Mike Westra first. So you can imagine how big of a kick in the nuts it is to have stuff changed without notifying the builders or managers.
If they do good work, let's get them down in Colonnade on a workparty helping us out so their goals align with ours.
Awesome question... short answer: Yes! I actually deleted a paragraph on this topic because my original post was starting get as long as some of Skookum's posts
Long answer: Definitely feel free to spray stuff down. A few guidelines, though...
- Make sure to turn all of the hose valves off when you're done. There is hose running everywhere... places you can't see. One open valve or burst hose left overnight in the wrong place and it could wipe out an entire section of trail.
- Please put the hoses and sprayers back in the condition you found 'em. We may be between work parties and need the hose in a particular area. It's a big hassle to go on a hose finding mission and drag one across the park.
- Careful not to overdo it -- the moon dust quickly turns to snot and can become a slip'n'slide hazard.
- Sometimes areas need to really be soaked. In those cases we need to keep riders off of it and shut the line down for a while. Contact me (425-241-7806) or one of the builders first.
We're working on getting hose installed so every inch in the park is accessible. We're also working on a hotline so you have a City Park # to call when something needs attention.
Making changes (not maintenance) to a trail you didn't build is not really cool. Sorry to say that. It's great your buddy can flip it now, but what if somebody else has a bad crash because they weren't aware the line has changed?!
Literally hundreds of people worked on some of the C-nade lines, so no one person "owns" any of the trails or features. Since it's a legal park, any changes should go through evergreen (via MWestra2), and the county if needed. Seems like a lot of red tape, but the pay-off is in more legal building opportunities elsewhere.
The main reason I am posting is, this is not unique to C-nade... the same thing goes for Duthie, and every trail really. The primary builder/designer should always get the final say before anything gets changed.
Literally hundreds of people worked on some of the C-nade lines, so no one person "owns" any of the trails or features. Since it's a legal park, any changes should go through evergreen (via MWestra2), and the county if needed. Seems like a lot of red tape, but the pay-off is in more legal building opportunities elsewhere.
The main reason I am posting is, this is not unique to C-nade... the same thing goes for Duthie, and every trail really. The primary builder/designer should always get the final say before anything gets changed.
its also called being a smart rider by checking the jump before u go huck it in most cases every time i go to collonade i check out the jump first lots of time the lip is falling apart in said line. i talked to casey and he said he got primission from someone who digs ther that he can change it as long as he tears it down in the end which they did they choped it so it was back to normal. i watched him do it so baisicly urverybody i complaing about an improvement to the park cus the lip did have a hole in it at the begining
It's a city park, so the liability aspect is especially important here, so I agree with the above. I also don't want folks mucking with my jumps or trails without asking me or we're gonna have words.The main reason I am posting is, this is not unique to C-nade... the same thing goes for Duthie, and every trail really. The primary builder/designer should always get the final say before anything gets changed.
Werd....
That said, it's part of the dj ethos that if you ride something, you pick up a shovel and fix it. In some dj circles, trashing someone's jumps and trannys and leaving them like that can get you a beat down. Seriously. You can see in the Pinkbike vid that they also filled in some bomb holes on the tranny (arguably a big safety hazard as well).
EB
If anything casey made it safer. The lip had a huge rut in it to begin with, he fixed it. Its not so much a matter that he changed it, as it is a matter of he maintained it. maintenence needs to occur with or without the trailbuilder being there. Plus, its a fking mtb park. no duh the city sees the safety concerns to begin with.
Yopawn. seriously? call them out publicly? ha
Yopawn. seriously? call them out publicly? ha
Your right, he did fix it and it looks great.
This is a good conversation, great points on both sides.
But, the line was changed enough for there to be concern.
Filling in holes and ruts is great(if you take the dirt from the right spot), but if your going to add another foot to a jump it would be nice ask the builder first.
-This is not your average dirt jump spot, its a king county park and the first of its kind. Please show respect to Mike, the progect manager and ask before your dig.
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Changing someones line without their permission is a definite no no. The fact that both Kim and Mike knew nothing about it tells me it was not authorized. I know that most people will drop straight into a line at Colonnade without checking it out each time unless it's flagged off or there is a sign. Neither was done. The last thing we need is an ambulance showing up every day out there because every random rider feels it ok to alter the lines at will. It has taken a long time and many people to get that park where it is today. Everyone needs to be a responsible user so it remains a positive example of a safe, fun, mtb park . Be smart people.
Just want to make sure credit goes where credit is due: It's a Seattle City Park.
At the north end of the dog park. If you go thru the gate where the skinnies end at the bottom, you'll see it on your right about 20ft in. Thanks!!!
There are several more shut-off and y-valves all along the hose. The main hose line starts at the dog park master valve as X6 describes. It goes under the skinnies, under the lower road and then runs above ground along the road (rider's right of K-Line) all the way down to the rainbow bridge. You can see the black hose and valves tacked to wooden posts.At the north end of the dog park. If you go thru the gate where the skinnies end at the bottom, you'll see it on your right about 20ft in. Thanks!!!
i think it's cool that Transition came out and chose Colonnade to run their promo deal. Seeing threads like this where new small issues are being worked out, are so much better than seeing alot of the old threads about people yelling at each other about secret trails. Now everyone can yell at each other about legal trails haha!
i think it's a trade up!
The one thing i do know is that building a jumps, and other Freeride trails that have steep grades in a terrain that never see's any rain, well even the most basic trail builder understands this is a harsh mix. Combine that with how popular the trail is, well in order for Transition to get a great shoot, looks like they had to do what they had to do.
i would tell everyone who reads this, that there are solutions. In my mind it's that soil hardener i've been preaching to use, but always get's thrown on the backburner. It's time to bust that out and see if it really works. (For those who don't know what i'm talking about, you mix it with dirt and it turns the dirt into a permanent hard pack). If that stuff actually works, you would have jumps that are going to be dialed and bombproof, where you not only don't have to waste time going back and constantly grooming tread, lips, landings, but also this particular issue would have never happened.
i think it's a trade up!
The one thing i do know is that building a jumps, and other Freeride trails that have steep grades in a terrain that never see's any rain, well even the most basic trail builder understands this is a harsh mix. Combine that with how popular the trail is, well in order for Transition to get a great shoot, looks like they had to do what they had to do.
i would tell everyone who reads this, that there are solutions. In my mind it's that soil hardener i've been preaching to use, but always get's thrown on the backburner. It's time to bust that out and see if it really works. (For those who don't know what i'm talking about, you mix it with dirt and it turns the dirt into a permanent hard pack). If that stuff actually works, you would have jumps that are going to be dialed and bombproof, where you not only don't have to waste time going back and constantly grooming tread, lips, landings, but also this particular issue would have never happened.
Kinda related:
I realize this is pretty much my own fault for not checking where I was going before I went but I had a pretty bad wreck on the rainbow bridge jump because it had been changed and I didnt realize it.
Towards the beginning of the year the lip on the jump had gotten worn down pretty bad and in order for me to get any air on it I had to hit it going pretty fast. Sometime between visits you guys had fixed it and added a little to the lip, making it quite a bit steeper. I hit it full speed after I had warmed up on the other side of the park. I hit that and overshot the jump enough to land on the flat bottom with my front wheel. As you can imagine I was pretty banged up from that crash.
Some signs saying the line had been "updated" or "fixed" would be great! I think that is something you guys should look into. I know I would greatly appreciate it even though now I check thoroughly before I ride it it would still be nice for all the other idiots out there.
I realize this is pretty much my own fault for not checking where I was going before I went but I had a pretty bad wreck on the rainbow bridge jump because it had been changed and I didnt realize it.
Towards the beginning of the year the lip on the jump had gotten worn down pretty bad and in order for me to get any air on it I had to hit it going pretty fast. Sometime between visits you guys had fixed it and added a little to the lip, making it quite a bit steeper. I hit it full speed after I had warmed up on the other side of the park. I hit that and overshot the jump enough to land on the flat bottom with my front wheel. As you can imagine I was pretty banged up from that crash.
Some signs saying the line had been "updated" or "fixed" would be great! I think that is something you guys should look into. I know I would greatly appreciate it even though now I check thoroughly before I ride it it would still be nice for all the other idiots out there.
We definitely need more and better signs out there. This is all being worked out with Seattle Parks right now. I'd like to have a permanent sign at the top that says something to the effect of: "condition of trails change -- always do a warm-up/check-out run". As described above, because of the lack of rain coupled with high use, things can get rutted and loose pretty quickly. Also, we'll never be able to keep all of the campers/homeless out of there and they often leave crap in the middle of the trail. Because Colonnade is so small, it's pretty easy to do a quick run before you go for it. Note: this doesn't excuse changing something without permission
Most definitely! We've got a bunch sitting in the shed ready for a test. K-Line is the best place to use it... it's the highest use / highest impact line. Just need some peeps to come on down and go for it. I'm going to be swamped getting the drainage project done by Dec 15th (coupled with Duthie) so can't get to it myself until 2010. We also have about 500 lbs of Portland cement... not as long-lasting as the SoilTac soil stabilizer, but when mixed with the dirt, soaked and let dry... lasts a lot longer than just dirt! Let me and Kim (fuzzy) know if you're interested.