This thread is hilarious.
We should change to name to "I am a unique snowflake! I refuse to use (insert brand here)."
We should change to name to "I am a unique snowflake! I refuse to use (insert brand here)."
The be honest with yourself/bad product review thread
- Thread starter Inclag
- Start date
If you are keeping the shock, I suggest the following:
Put the old version of the sleeve on if you can. Not the one that is half high volume, half regular, but the one that is just straight and thin. It'll make the shock more progressive (because there is less volume) and you'll be able to start with lower pressure for the small bumps you mentioned while having it ramp up later. The HV air sleeve is great for making a very progressive design feel linear, or softer through the middle and end stroke.
meh. I hate it alot of what I said but I still use it. My lg1 for example grinds like hell and was an absolute bitch to line up, but it works better than any other guide ive had.
I also need to amend my first post.
Anything manipoo
East coast gravity park logistics/management
2007 marzocchi 66 sl ata- was a love hate relationship.
King Headset + Fox 40 = poo.
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How about "I didn't read the instructions and therefore don't like (insert product here)"?
Or "(insert brand here) refused to sponsor me and my off the back results in the beginner category in the three races I went to last year; therefore I don't like (insert product here)."
-ska todd
Swentz, Isn't the Mammoth Coffin jumps where you had your bad crash?Here are some products I've used that I haven't been too happy about. Just skip this if you don't want to read too much.
The following are not regular bike products, but still products most of us have used or might use in the future:
Mammoth Mountain bike park's coffin jumps.Those things suck. Poor, poor design. Helen Keller could have done a better job.
Crested Butte. You have so much potential and such a poor downhill event.
Crested Butte. What can you say. Every year it's the same thing. The mountain that promises the world but has never delivered. I think all of us MSC regulars all feel the same bro!
That's your problem! The smaller air can makes that shock blow through the mid-stroke much less in my experience. This whole fad of large air cans is silly. It makes initial stiction much worse because you run lower pressures, then it blows through the mid and end stroke way fast because it's not progressive enough.
Hey guys,
One solution we use if the chain *just* isn't centered in the sliders is to use disc brake caliper spacers. Most bike shops should have a lot kicking around, or most of you probably have some kicking around. If not, you can go rummaging around your local hardware store looking for M6 washers. We have a bunch of wafer thin ones (0.5mm and 0.2mm) that are pretty handy at race events for getting everything dead centered.
Our stock spacer widths are 2.5mm (Black) and 1.25mm (Gold).
Cheers,
philip @ e*thirteen
Brand loyalty aside, my LG1 has seized up completely once...due to a combination kinked chain (before I had a taco) and my powerlink popping. Once I got everything dialed properly, it really is set and forget.
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Avid codes:
Fantastic stopping power... but the stock pads moan and vibrate the entire bike making your hands go numb. I haven't done anything to try and fix the problem yet however
The other thing that pissed me off was right when I got them (new) I tried to take the pads off and the hex bolt stripped! After talking with a few folks and reading here, this doesn't seem to be an isolated incident.
MRP Chainguide (system I?) stock setup with the 2003 BB7:
Even with the rollers pressed right against the metal hoop, my chain still sometimes comes off. If you pedal backwards much or go through hardcore rock gardens, the chain will pop off the cog's teeth and allow you to pedal forwards freely without going anywhere. I really want to switch to a new system because of this. (suggestions welcome)
Shimano shifters/deraleurs:
They just don't seem to last half as long as SRAM deraleurs for me. They also go out of tune more often and the shifting just doesn't feel as crisp.
I'm surprised at how many folks say no to the ex721s.... and I was going to pick up some for my regular wheels. What about the 729s? I don't want to go tubeless so 823s aren't that interesting to me.
Fantastic stopping power... but the stock pads moan and vibrate the entire bike making your hands go numb. I haven't done anything to try and fix the problem yet however
The other thing that pissed me off was right when I got them (new) I tried to take the pads off and the hex bolt stripped! After talking with a few folks and reading here, this doesn't seem to be an isolated incident.
MRP Chainguide (system I?) stock setup with the 2003 BB7:
Even with the rollers pressed right against the metal hoop, my chain still sometimes comes off. If you pedal backwards much or go through hardcore rock gardens, the chain will pop off the cog's teeth and allow you to pedal forwards freely without going anywhere. I really want to switch to a new system because of this. (suggestions welcome)
Shimano shifters/deraleurs:
They just don't seem to last half as long as SRAM deraleurs for me. They also go out of tune more often and the shifting just doesn't feel as crisp.
I'm surprised at how many folks say no to the ex721s.... and I was going to pick up some for my regular wheels. What about the 729s? I don't want to go tubeless so 823s aren't that interesting to me.
You hit the nail on the head. With my original Code setup, the noise and vibration were so bad that I swear it felt like the rear of my bike was falling apart. A couple of weeks ago I switched from the G2 rotor to the G3 and it got better, but still not perfect - the vibrations are less noticeable but the noise is just about the same. I'm now going to try new pads as well as recentering it (again) and see how that pans out.
what are you talking about? i've been running my hussefelts for 3 years...switched to gravity lites and bent them on the first ride ( dragged a pedal)...now i'm back on the truvativs. run them til they break; you'll have them forever
and how do the bb's suck? I think your post is the epidome of biased
amen on the pedals...i have two sets of 50/50s, both nearly fell apart on the first ride.
lg1: maybe the indian, not the arrow?
I was kind of hoping to get rational explanations as to why people didn't like products they have, and some honesty that some people just don't have a clue how to properly set up or maintain stuff. No shame admitting you had a problem and couldn't fix it. I think that sometimes says alot about the manufacturability and how well thought out a design is.
Anyone who has been on these forums long enough probably knows that there are some posters who you probably never take product advice from because everything is so peachy and rosy and awesome.
I half expected that most of the posts would be "I hate X" and "I love Y" which wasn't what I really was looking for, but I think there is some useful information and posts. Most people get flamed for saying that they don't like their king or hadley product. I just wanted a safe haven where legitimate beefs could be voiced without the mob drowning out what is valuable information that prospective consumers should know.
Oh I understand the idea, but you should have known from the start that that is not what would happen.
I think might have been an useful thread in 1999. There was a lot more choices then and a lot more marketing/spin to wade thru.
Most products today are equally decent, partly because the same companies manufacture most of the products sold on the market.
But there was one product I could mention which would be perfect for this thread.
Last season, I noticed this product was no longer on the bike of a high profile sponsored racer. Considering this racer was the face of advertising for this product (and still is), I was thought it was odd.
This well-known racer told me this product really sucked and how glad he was to be using its replacement.
I can't mention this product since it would be obvious who the racer was, but the way this guy bashed it, I would never use it myself.
Yeah, I keep waiting for the "Shimano cranks suck because they keep falling off" reply. I thought there would have been 20 by now.
Duncan Riffle?
FWIW, I think your idea was reasonable and there have been some useful and rational comments made about certain products. While I tend to agree that many product failure issues are directly related to user error, I find it equally hilarious that some industry reps act as if no sh!tty mountain bike product has been made in the last 5 years by anyone. By that logic, if it breaks or doesn't work, it is always the consumers fault.
Bravo Condoms?
crank bro acid pedals - nice and light, but a pain to get back in once you pop out.
this one kills me, but the first generation deity cranks were heavy and took lots of fiddling to set up. i kept having the non-drive side cup loosen, and i couldn't get the lockring to hold things in place and the axle always had/has a bit of bind on it (maybe i'm just a hack with a wrench). having a BFH as a crank removal tool seemed low-brow to me. i haven't tried the new vendetta cranks, but they look worlds better.
this one kills me, but the first generation deity cranks were heavy and took lots of fiddling to set up. i kept having the non-drive side cup loosen, and i couldn't get the lockring to hold things in place and the axle always had/has a bit of bind on it (maybe i'm just a hack with a wrench). having a BFH as a crank removal tool seemed low-brow to me. i haven't tried the new vendetta cranks, but they look worlds better.
Haven't been in the game as long as 99% of you, so I only have a couple.
Manitou Splice - lost oil through the bottom, then took 4 weeks to get it back to me. I got a nice stumpjumper rental bike in the meantime though so I wasn't too mad.
Specialized Deviant - Paint chips more than I have ever seen anything before. I'm talking 10% of the paint is now gone. The back adjuster loosens as you move your head, just plain not safe. Otherwise nice light and comfortable helmet.
4mm hex bolts on fork crowns and anything else - It's not that I over tighten them, or strip them a lot, but I just like having the 5mm security.
Building Norco's out of the box - nothing is even remotely close to what it should be. note* mainly on there cheap mtb and hybrids.
Boxxer Ride's U-Turn - coiled down on medium hits, got it fixed for free, just had to pay shipping, lasted two days and then started again
Flat Pedals - personal preference.
Like;
Gamut Guides
Specialized FSR
5mm Hex Bolts - just the right size, not to big, not to small.
Disc truers, most handy tool. I do know you can just use your hand but the disc truers from park are still nice to use.
Manitou Splice - lost oil through the bottom, then took 4 weeks to get it back to me. I got a nice stumpjumper rental bike in the meantime though so I wasn't too mad.
Specialized Deviant - Paint chips more than I have ever seen anything before. I'm talking 10% of the paint is now gone. The back adjuster loosens as you move your head, just plain not safe. Otherwise nice light and comfortable helmet.
4mm hex bolts on fork crowns and anything else - It's not that I over tighten them, or strip them a lot, but I just like having the 5mm security.
Building Norco's out of the box - nothing is even remotely close to what it should be. note* mainly on there cheap mtb and hybrids.
Boxxer Ride's U-Turn - coiled down on medium hits, got it fixed for free, just had to pay shipping, lasted two days and then started again
Flat Pedals - personal preference.
Like;
Gamut Guides
Specialized FSR
5mm Hex Bolts - just the right size, not to big, not to small.
Disc truers, most handy tool. I do know you can just use your hand but the disc truers from park are still nice to use.
this thread. 90% amateur hate hour.
i did the same however its a torq not a hex... i just got it it and used the dremel and put a slit for a screwdriverAvid codes:
Fantastic stopping power... but the stock pads moan and vibrate the entire bike making your hands go numb. I haven't done anything to try and fix the problem yet however
The other thing that pissed me off was right when I got them (new) I tried to take the pads off and the hex bolt stripped! After talking with a few folks and reading here, this doesn't seem to be an isolated incident.
Hate the 4mm.
I want to take one 5mm key and fix my whole bike with it.
What year Boxxer Ride? I'm guessing '05, because '06 was the bee's knees.
anyone who cant put an lg1 on thier bike should not touch thier bike with a wrench, for 99% of frames the set up is as simple as putting a tire on a bike i can not beleive people have even stated this product in this thread
yeah, 2005.Hate the 4mm.
I want to take one 5mm key and fix my whole bike with it.
What year Boxxer Ride? I'm guessing '05, because '06 was the bee's knees.
Dude! e13 is bunch of yuppies! its all about MRP. I bought an lg1 and i cant put it on, its way to tech. Not to mention my chain always falls off. I feel that I spent alot on a product that failed me, my bike, and my hard earned cash!
I think that you need to brush up a bit on your reading skills; I already elaborated on this...
I don't remember. That's what everyone tells me though.
One bad word: Manitou! Plastic damper parts housed in flexy, crackprone lowers, backed by a lack of company support = FAIL! Stay away.
SRAM X5 shifters. Yuck!
I actually liked my Manitou Sherman Breakout +, but only after it had been modified. Wasn't too stoked on the fact that it blew up so often though.
No surprise here, but Hayes HD Mags.
Good surprises (so far) Bontrager King Earl cranks. Stiff and reliable. All good for me.
RS Lyrik Solo Air - great fork that has taken far more from me than it was probably designed for.
I actually liked my Manitou Sherman Breakout +, but only after it had been modified. Wasn't too stoked on the fact that it blew up so often though.
No surprise here, but Hayes HD Mags.
Good surprises (so far) Bontrager King Earl cranks. Stiff and reliable. All good for me.
RS Lyrik Solo Air - great fork that has taken far more from me than it was probably designed for.
Pantene Pro-V?
I cant believe nobody has said the all time worst product ever.
Manitou Kingpin Stance:
I broke three before it actually had been on downhill terrain. The fourth one broke at the lower crown clean like it had been torched, resulting in a broken shoulder blade and a severe concussion. They did send me a dorado though for my pain.
Anybody with a nicer bike than me:
I hate you! I cant afford a better bike so I race my hunk and hope I win the lottery.
Manitou Kingpin Stance:
I broke three before it actually had been on downhill terrain. The fourth one broke at the lower crown clean like it had been torched, resulting in a broken shoulder blade and a severe concussion. They did send me a dorado though for my pain.
Anybody with a nicer bike than me:
I hate you! I cant afford a better bike so I race my hunk and hope I win the lottery.
Yes Sram X7 shifters, outboard there wasn't enough finger room or the brake lever was too far in, inboard it was too far to reach, but I found the solution by filing away about half of the paddles (I like to have brake, shifter then grip). My other bike has a grip shifter but triggers seem more conveneient.
I do like the fact that sram shifting requires adjustment less often than shimano, but I have not used the high end product from either brand.
Love Oury grips, but the ends should be made of harder plastic or something. Hate Lock On's including Odi, too easy to round out the nuts.
Love the older style Shimano XT brakes, (have not tried servo wave and don't find the need to).
Kalloy Uno S3Raph seat post, it was on sale real cheap but it's one of those products that just seems a lot better than the price would indicate.
Thomson, the seat post creaked, bolts had potential of seizing, just not worth the hype or cash for me. Thomson stem, once again an over hyped product.
Syncros stems, love the big bolts on the FR stem, their seatposts are ok too but could be easier to adjust, I'd take the Kalloy over one of them. Syncros bars are good value if you can look past the bit of weight.
Race Face BB's = I haven't had a problem with those, and yes I've taken the cranks off and on quite a few times also switched the diabolus from one bike to another, I do like to pry the seals on the BB and put a bit of extra grease in. Shimano BB I brought for the other bike doesn't look that different.
Single pivots - I love having just two bearings to worry about!
DMR V12 Mag pedals, had them for a few years, took them apart and greased them up, now they spin like new again (albeit cosmetically worse for wear, only lost 1 pin).
Camelbak Mule, take it on every ride, no mould, no problems, never wash it just keep it filled.
Troy Lee Gloves, the '01 model seemed to last forever, latest ones don't seem as durable.
WTB Speed V, love it, can they please make a lighter version though?????
What I love the most is getting off these forums, getting onto the bike, going for a ride and everything just works and I forget about all of this crap and what brand is on there what colour the bike is and anything else you think about when you can't get out and go for a ride!! I hate not being able to ride and then getting fidgety, starting to fiddle with the bike and as a result doing something stupid (stripping paint etc).
I do like the fact that sram shifting requires adjustment less often than shimano, but I have not used the high end product from either brand.
Love Oury grips, but the ends should be made of harder plastic or something. Hate Lock On's including Odi, too easy to round out the nuts.
Love the older style Shimano XT brakes, (have not tried servo wave and don't find the need to).
Kalloy Uno S3Raph seat post, it was on sale real cheap but it's one of those products that just seems a lot better than the price would indicate.
Thomson, the seat post creaked, bolts had potential of seizing, just not worth the hype or cash for me. Thomson stem, once again an over hyped product.
Syncros stems, love the big bolts on the FR stem, their seatposts are ok too but could be easier to adjust, I'd take the Kalloy over one of them. Syncros bars are good value if you can look past the bit of weight.
Race Face BB's = I haven't had a problem with those, and yes I've taken the cranks off and on quite a few times also switched the diabolus from one bike to another, I do like to pry the seals on the BB and put a bit of extra grease in. Shimano BB I brought for the other bike doesn't look that different.
Single pivots - I love having just two bearings to worry about!
DMR V12 Mag pedals, had them for a few years, took them apart and greased them up, now they spin like new again (albeit cosmetically worse for wear, only lost 1 pin).
Camelbak Mule, take it on every ride, no mould, no problems, never wash it just keep it filled.
Troy Lee Gloves, the '01 model seemed to last forever, latest ones don't seem as durable.
WTB Speed V, love it, can they please make a lighter version though?????
What I love the most is getting off these forums, getting onto the bike, going for a ride and everything just works and I forget about all of this crap and what brand is on there what colour the bike is and anything else you think about when you can't get out and go for a ride!! I hate not being able to ride and then getting fidgety, starting to fiddle with the bike and as a result doing something stupid (stripping paint etc).
You've obviously never had a system 1 (dual rotating plates) MRP then. Utterly silent, and a doddle to set up, and I've never dropped a chain in 7 years or something.
It's not torq, it's a 2.5mm hex:
http://www.sram.com/_media/techdocs/2007 Avid Technical Manualweb 95-5015-004-000RevA.pdf
Look at page 30, step 4.
Edit:
Here are the most up to date instructions that go out to consumers with their brakes:
http://www.sram.com/_media/techdocs/95-5015-009-000.pdf
Same deal. 2.5mm hex page 10, step 1. That would be great if they did switch it to torq (other than having to lug around more tools for me). But they ought to update that documentation...
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Knee/shin guards. I don't understand why nobody can seem to build a decent set. I have raceface guards, which I read were the best, and I hate them. One crash they slipped down and I still managed to get scraped up, and that was hard to believe since they're the size of my entire lower leg. The stitching is terrible, they're hot, too long, and they just don't work. I have no idea what else to use, as people are bagging on the lopes in this thread, other people have hated dainese, and dainese were the only others that I've used and really liked.
Brakes. Seems like manufacturers can't seem to figure out how to get things right. You have cheap, good performing, or a total pain in the ass. Choose 1 or 2, sometimes.
I wanted to like my Hopes so badly. They were wonderfully comfortable in the parking lot. They heated up terribly out on the trail, I could never figure out if they were leaking or bubbling or what, but when they cooled down and I was screwing around getting them set up, they were fine.
My gustavs are supposed to be the most deadnuts reliable brake on the market. I have to bleed both of mine after one ride. I could never get the lever to feel like it's supposed to. Yeah, they seem to have power, but I just can't figure them out. For something so german and overengineered, I expect a higher quality lever.
Modern suspension design. I used to be a huge lover of multi-pivot bikes. Lawwills, FSR, whatever. No matter what it was better than a SP. Now it's the opposite. I've ridden VPP and hated it. I've ridden two different DWL bikes and each rode like poop. I've ridden a canfield F1 and it felt goofy. I just don't understand how all the marketing hype and lingo thrown around compensate or cover for these things. My next bike will probably be one of those, as people seem to love them, and I know shock setup has much to do with it, but I just can't wrap my head around it.
I have a sic stem as well, and it's garbage. I can't seem to get it tight enough not to slip. My monster truck of a BMW stem has never twisted.
My Avy fork is hit or miss. It could certainly be more supple over repeated bumps, stutters, and braking bumps, but oh my god on anything larger it's superb. My rear shock has been flawless.
I hate 9 speed components. If 8 speed weren't so hard to find, I'd be running it. Narrow spacing just isn't a great idea on DH bikes.
Lock-on grips. I know some people absolutely love these things, and in the rain and mud, I agree with you, but my hands absorb so much more shock because of the rubber sleeve, and they grip can't be as thin because of it. I found some brand that did half plastic and have rubber, but still locked on, but I forgot which it is. I much prefer the full rubber grip unless it's wet out.
my dainese suit has been kind of meh. I don't know if I got the wrong size, but it fits kind of funny and rides up, especially when I'm on the lift. Otherwise it seems fine, but there are a few select issues which just kind of stink. For such an expensive item, I expect a little more.
a few comments on other things:
Hayes brakes were a bitch to set up, but mine worked fine once they were there. Had few complaints.
My CK headset has been fine since I got it. I probably wouldn't buy another, but still.
All the 721 haters made me realize something: I LOVE my Arrow DHX rims. They are heavy, but I have never had a single problem. I may try the FRX rims on my next race bike since I love the ones I have so much.
Brakes. Seems like manufacturers can't seem to figure out how to get things right. You have cheap, good performing, or a total pain in the ass. Choose 1 or 2, sometimes.
I wanted to like my Hopes so badly. They were wonderfully comfortable in the parking lot. They heated up terribly out on the trail, I could never figure out if they were leaking or bubbling or what, but when they cooled down and I was screwing around getting them set up, they were fine.
My gustavs are supposed to be the most deadnuts reliable brake on the market. I have to bleed both of mine after one ride. I could never get the lever to feel like it's supposed to. Yeah, they seem to have power, but I just can't figure them out. For something so german and overengineered, I expect a higher quality lever.
Modern suspension design. I used to be a huge lover of multi-pivot bikes. Lawwills, FSR, whatever. No matter what it was better than a SP. Now it's the opposite. I've ridden VPP and hated it. I've ridden two different DWL bikes and each rode like poop. I've ridden a canfield F1 and it felt goofy. I just don't understand how all the marketing hype and lingo thrown around compensate or cover for these things. My next bike will probably be one of those, as people seem to love them, and I know shock setup has much to do with it, but I just can't wrap my head around it.
I have a sic stem as well, and it's garbage. I can't seem to get it tight enough not to slip. My monster truck of a BMW stem has never twisted.
My Avy fork is hit or miss. It could certainly be more supple over repeated bumps, stutters, and braking bumps, but oh my god on anything larger it's superb. My rear shock has been flawless.
I hate 9 speed components. If 8 speed weren't so hard to find, I'd be running it. Narrow spacing just isn't a great idea on DH bikes.
Lock-on grips. I know some people absolutely love these things, and in the rain and mud, I agree with you, but my hands absorb so much more shock because of the rubber sleeve, and they grip can't be as thin because of it. I found some brand that did half plastic and have rubber, but still locked on, but I forgot which it is. I much prefer the full rubber grip unless it's wet out.
my dainese suit has been kind of meh. I don't know if I got the wrong size, but it fits kind of funny and rides up, especially when I'm on the lift. Otherwise it seems fine, but there are a few select issues which just kind of stink. For such an expensive item, I expect a little more.
a few comments on other things:
Hayes brakes were a bitch to set up, but mine worked fine once they were there. Had few complaints.
My CK headset has been fine since I got it. I probably wouldn't buy another, but still.
All the 721 haters made me realize something: I LOVE my Arrow DHX rims. They are heavy, but I have never had a single problem. I may try the FRX rims on my next race bike since I love the ones I have so much.