[W4S]

this past weekend was my 4th trip to Big Bear since it opened last month, and I think I figured out Team Big Bears and/or Snow Summits management techniques for the MTB park.

1. Do as little work as possible. - Westridge is the only fun run. I guess Log Chute is a novice trail and i haven't ridden it, but if i had, it would have sucked. summit trail is a joke. the Snow Summit website says, "we have 3 world class DH trails." where are they? which leads to point #2

2. Hire people who don't ride DH to design trails. - Seriously, how hard is it to build a proper jump? "hey, let's build a single to flat, they'll like it."

3. Don't ever maintain or improve the trails. - A little water and some shovel work would be terrific and would go a long way in enhancing the riding experience. instead, summit seems to have employed a 'build it and forget it' technique. that big 3" log that is just waiting to cave somebodies chest in on westridge is an example of that, yet they close off one of the funner sections of trail for no apparent reason!

the thing that really chaps my hide is that BB is probably making some decent money off us, enough that they could give some back to the trails. As it stands, I think this will be one of my last trips to BB because the trails keep disintegrating and the management seems to not care about the riders happiness.

anybody else feel this way?

 

[-BB-]

Yes and No...
I agree with most of your comments, but I'll probably still continue to go up there anyway. First of all because i bought a season pass and need to get my $$ worth. Second because the in-laws have a cabin up there... and lastly because Mammoth and N* are just too far away.

I rellay gotta hook up w/ you guys for some Aliso Shuttles.

Edit: Oh, and there are some cool trails "off mountain" that locals will maintain and that are also really fun.

 

[Slugman]

but I'll probably still continue to go up there anyway. First of all because I bought a season pass and need to get my $$ worth.

The ONLY reason I'll continue to go there... although the newer section of off Westridge was fun!

I just can't imagine with the size of that place that the best they can do is a bunch of runs that are mostly on the slopes... maybe I'm showing my East Coast bias here - but I miss Plattekill in NY. Those guys change the trails every 2-3 years, they are constantly building new stunts (ladders, bridges, DROPS!, etc) and what they earn they re-invest in the mountain (within like 5 years of the new owner buying it they added a new lift!). Plus the trails are all in the woods and super technical... F'ing amazing stuff out there and I miss it! Granted BB is a lot faster… you’re not going to do a PKill run in 5 min.

I really gotta hook up w/ you guys for some Aliso Shuttles.

I'd be interested in these...so far only taken my Hardtail there since I have to climb. Still a lot of fun... but I'd rather hit a couple runs down rather than just one!

Oh, and there are some cool trails "off mountain" that locals will maintain and that are also really fun.

Show me... Show me... Show me... PLEASE!!!!!!!!!

If any locals are around next week I'll be there Saturday...

 

[EBasil]

Slugman, Snow Summit may not be as big as you think: even Westridge trail leaves "Snow Summit" and spits you out into the National Forest. The operators at Summit are only allowed to improve/maintain/screw up/neglect the trails within the boundaries of the ski resort, as shown on their map. All those other trails are maintained by locals, the Rangers or also not at all.

 

[BMXman]

Well I for one am not just going to bitch here about it. I plan on contacting team BB or whomever is in charge of building and offering my services. Although when I think about it I really don't spend that much time on the 3 "main" trails....I'm all about Darkside, Bailey, Pistols, Creek, Sonic, Fall-line, etc.....D

 

[Slugman]

Slugman, Snow Summit may not be as big as you think: even Westridge trail leaves "Snow Summit" and spits you out into the National Forest. The operators at Summit are only allowed to improve/maintain/screw up/neglect the trails within the boundaries of the ski resort, as shown on their map. All those other trails are maintained by locals, the Rangers or also not at all.

Good to know!

I just think that section under the lift could be turned into something spectacular... there are already a couple dozen downed tree's in the area and a couple really sweet looking rock faces. I see them as a huge opportunity.

However I understand that they probably do not want to build b/c some Jack*ss will try to do a road gap on his huffy and sue them...

Well I for one am not just going to bitch here about it. I plan on contacting team BB or whomever is in charge of building and offering my services. Although when I think about it I really don't spend that much time on the 3 "main" trails....I'm all about Darkside, Bailey, Pistols, Creek, Sonic, Fall-line, etc.....D

If team Big Bear tells me that they are building some ladders, bridges, drops, or other technical stunts and that they need my help -I'll be there! Hell I'll take time off of work!

 

[Pegboy]

If you really want things to change Get a sign up list of 10-15 people, in writing, and present it to TBB. If you get people to volunteer and they can provide one guy with tools and a machine you could upgrade trails easily. The biggest problem is most of us are weekend wariors and don't want to volunteer time when we could be riding, even if the trails are crappy. Bottom line is we WILL go back because, hey, they got a chair lift! Plus the more people who quit going, the smaller the lift lines and less trail traffic.

 

[Zark]

Well looks like I'll be spending a lot on gas going to Gnar*
Maybe they'll get the hint by me not buying a lift ticket

Seriously they have to do something, it is piss poor as far as the legit trails.
I think the big problem is the Forest Service controls the land and I think they'd have to do an EIR to put a new trail in and make it to F.S. multi-use standards (no more than a 12% grade, 36" wide, snooze fest)

They gotta do something though, you feel shat on when you have to race Log Chute or Summit. I wouldn't pay money to ride either of em much less race 'em.

 

[adrenalinjunky18]

ya guys the trails at bb are definately not world class I agree but ive never lived an hour and a half away from a skilift so i cant complain about it too much. it sure beats riding uphill.

 

[dhjill]

Slugman, Snow Summit may not be as big as you think: even Westridge trail leaves "Snow Summit" and spits you out into the National Forest. The operators at Summit are only allowed to improve/maintain/screw up/neglect the trails within the boundaries of the ski resort, as shown on their map. All those other trails are maintained by locals, the Rangers or also not at all.

Yah...what he said. From what I gather, the lovely tree-hugging hippie environmentalists make it really difficult for them to cut new trails.

And I'm sure like many companies, TBB is cutting costs where it can to remain profitable (yes, they are a business and need to turn a profit in order to stay in biz and provide us all with chairlift services). Sad but true...this sport of ours ain't growing. If they aren't getting added revenue as a result of the sport growing, the money has to come from somewhere.

 

[EBasil]

Sad but true...this sport of ours ain't growing.

Isn't it growing at Big Bear, though? Aren't there a lot of people in line for expensive lift tickets every day the lifts are running? I haven't been up since last year, but it was busy then, on a Sunday no less. All TBB needs is guys with heavy bikes they can't really enjoy without a chairlift, right? :devil:

My perception that they've GOT business is what makes me think they should be grooming trails more often, and thinking about what else to do within their boundaries.

 

[W4S]

My problem with team big bear or snow summit (i don't know who makes decisions at this level) is that it wouldn't be THAT much harder to make it a really fun place to ride instead of what it is, a dilapidated trailer park of a mtb hill.
i don't have any proof, but i think snow summit isn't doing too badly, lift lines are longer than i've ever seen and races are busy with lots of participation. plus, they run that place on a skeleton crew, they freakin' hire people with more metal in their faces than dennis rodman!
i just wish that they would spend a little time and effort into improving conditions and looking for a return down the road instead of just cutting costs. they don't even have to cut new trails, just make the existing ones good and then maintain it 'a little'.
did anybody ride summit trail? that trail sucks. it really sucks.
it was kinda fun last year, could've used some changes, but it was fun. this year it just plain sucks. they made it worse!!! am i wrong?

 

[Edgy]

lets see how pissed off you get....after you get back from Whistler! :mumble:

 

[merrrrjig]

Ya man it would be sick if they maintained the trails. I also like the side trails, cuz they are way more fun and tech. like pystal peats, cables, and baileys. Dont know of any other side trails but would love to find some!

 

[Rabie]

this past weekend was my 4th trip to Big Bear since it opened last month, and I think I figured out Team Big Bears and/or Snow Summits management techniques for the MTB park.

1. Do as little work as possible. - Westridge is the only fun run. I guess Log Chute is a novice trail and i haven't ridden it, but if i had, it would have sucked. summit trail is a joke. the Snow Summit website says, "we have 3 world class DH trails." where are they? which leads to point #2

2. Hire people who don't ride DH to design trails. - Seriously, how hard is it to build a proper jump? "hey, let's build a single to flat, they'll like it."

3. Don't ever maintain or improve the trails. - A little water and some shovel work would be terrific and would go a long way in enhancing the riding experience. instead, summit seems to have employed a 'build it and forget it' technique. that big 3" log that is just waiting to cave somebodies chest in on westridge is an example of that, yet they close off one of the funner sections of trail for no apparent reason!

the thing that really chaps my hide is that BB is probably making some decent money off us, enough that they could give some back to the trails. As it stands, I think this will be one of my last trips to BB because the trails keep disintegrating and the management seems to not care about the riders happiness.

anybody else feel this way?

Don't hate.

 

[W4S]

Don't hate.

you're not going very far in life, paki-boy.

 

[Eigil]

I dunno', I love riding up there. I think the trails are great.

 

[downhillzeypher]

Yeah ^^^^ what he said. Maybe I just suck at riding, or maybe I like boring trails, but honestly, log chute wasn't that bad and I had fun up there.

 

[Gimper4JC]

lets see how pissed off you get....after you get back from Whistler! :mumble:

To Whom It May Concern:
CALLING THE OWNERS OF “BIG BEAR” / “SNOW SUMMIT”

I have yet to get up to BB this year but as I remember last year, it was pretty fun. Ya I would agree that there is not a lot to choose from and as I become a better rider the trails don't seem to be as challenging. It would be great if “you” (whoever makes decisions) would embrace the possibly of making BB a premiere destination for MTB.

Someone up there “you” (whoever makes decisions) just needs to take notice what’s going on elsewhere. Just look at Whistler Mountain Bike Park. A quote from the website. “The rumors are true. The Park will go GARGANTUAN this year! Trail building virtuoso, Dave Kelly, and his hand picked four-man construction crew has been working down from the lower reaches of the alpine creating your next fix.” Etc. etc.

I work in Advertising / Marketing and I can guarantee they would not be making this type of investment if they were not guaranteed a ROI. (Return on Investment) All you have to do is take a look at their stats, growth, etc. If people are willing to travel there, don’t you think they would “flock” to BB.? Can you imagine the $$$ it could bring to the town?

Why can’t we have our “mini” “Whistler”?

I pretty confidant that given the amount of trail builders on just this FORUM, we could build some pretty sick trails. I’m willing to give up some time. Anyone else? Do it just like we do when building local trails,.. Build, dig, water, etc. Then RIDE!

And maybe for our time, we get free year passes.

Am I a complete dreamer? Probably…

In the meantime I will build my own little FR park in my Backyard.

Ps. See ya in BB next week…

 

[Slugman]

To Whom It May Concern:
CALLING THE OWNERS OF “BIG BEAR” / “SNOW SUMMIT”

Nice!

Someone up there “you” (whoever makes decisions) just needs to take notice what’s going on elsewhere. Just look at Whistler Mountain Bike Park. A quote from the website. “The rumors are true. The Park will go GARGANTUAN this year! Trail building virtuoso, Dave Kelly, and his hand picked four-man construction crew has been working down from the lower reaches of the alpine creating your next fix.” Etc. etc.

Whistler and others:
http://www.pinkbike.com//modules/news/?op=articleview&id=2067
http://www.whistlerblackcomb.com/bike/feature4/

These guys have not posted it on their site yet, but at the end of last season they had bridges, ladders and other built stunts... and they are a small operation - just added a second lift last year:
http://www.plattekill.com/index.html

I pretty confidant that given the amount of trail builders on just this FORUM, we could build some pretty sick trails. I’m willing to give up some time. Anyone else? Do it just like we do when building local trails,.. Build, dig, water, etc. Then RIDE!

I'm in! like I said, I'll even take time off work to help do some midweek build (has to be in July... no vacay until then).

In the meantime I will build my own little FR park in my Backyard.

So.. is that open to the public? neaky:

 

[W4S]

Yeah ^^^^ what he said. Maybe I just suck at riding, or maybe I like boring trails, but honestly, log chute wasn't that bad and I had fun up there.

so, what you're saying is that if you went to the slopeside cafeteria and they served you a greasy pork sandwich in a dirty ashtray, you'd be stoked that it was the best greasy pork sandwich in a dirty ashtray you'd had in so cal so far this summer?

i'm with gimper4jc. i dislike business' that try to do the minimum when clearly, with a little effort, they could really make something. it's not like they're competing with all the other local resorts for people's money, they have a friggin' monopoly.

hey gimper, where are your trails.

 

[Riff Raff]

This can't help.....

- Residential and commercial customers reduce use by 10%
- Designated days and times for landscape watering are even/odd (based on the last number of your address) and between 6pm-9am
- 5% reduction in indoor water use
- Landscape permits required
- No new turf
- No DWP water for soil compaction or dust control

See you in BB.

-H

 

[dhjill]

Why can’t we have our “mini” “Whistler”?

Reason #1: Too many tree-hugging hippy environmentalists.
Reason #2: Too many sue-happy folks in the US...especially CA.

As much as I'd love to see BB be as awesome as Whistler, I can see why they don't. If I were the owner of BB or any other property with trails, I'd probably think twice about it, too. Tom, Pat, and Naked Man have all told me that the reason they have to remove all the cool jumps after Nationals is because too many people get hurt.

Yeah, it sucks that a few bad apples have to ruin it for everyone.

 

[Slugman]

Reason #2: Too many sue-happy folks in the US...especially CA.

Tom, Pat, and Naked Man have all told me that the reason they have to remove all the cool jumps after Nationals is because too many people get hurt.

Then why do I have to sign my life away anytime I visit? Sounds like they need better lawyers... any lawyers out there willing to donate some time to team BB? :angry:

 

[Edgy]

In the meantime I will build my own little FR park in my Backyard.

Ps. See ya in BB next week…[/QUOTE]

Well ....it sounds like yo have an able/willing crew right here right now to help turn your backyard into the next World Class FR Park.

We'll see you on Sat. to work out the schedule/details.

Yo Orven???? We need some more cool pics...they really do make that place look so good.

 

[dhjill]

Then why do I have to sign my life away anytime I visit? Sounds like they need better lawyers... any lawyers out there willing to donate some time to team BB? :angry:

Because waivers like that are merely deterrants. Same thing goes for ski resorts, motocross tracks, amusement parks, and any other "inherently dangerous" activity or attraction. If you were to seriously hurt yourself at BB, I guarantee you any lawyer would take on your case and aim to prove in some way, shape, or form that TBB was in some way negligent. By mandating that participants sign a waiver, what they're hoping for is that you'll assume that since you signed a waiver, that you can't sue them if you get hurt. Most any lawyer would tell you that "assumption of risk" doesn't go very far in most situations. Same thing applies to private land...this is why most dirt jump areas get plowed. If you build jumps or trails on your private property and some kid tresspasses and hurts himself, you as the property owner can get sued...it's something called an "attractive nuisance" or something like that.

I'm no lawyer, but I have several family members who are and I used to work in the insurance industry. It sucks that our society has become so litigious that we have to worry about stuff like this. :mumble: :angry:

 

[Orvan]

Yo Orven???? We need some more cool pics...they really do make that place look so good.

I'm working on a bribe and incentive package for my GF to sacrifice one or two runs to hit up some spots for a photo session. I guess I'll suit up appropriately just in case my GF feels like taking some pics.....
hi sweetie......

and for the haters, stay home.. the shorter the line is the more runs we get in

Jill, Heather's DH bike is a week away from being done....giddy up cowgirl!!

 

[Riff Raff]

and for the haters, stay home.. the shorter the line is the more runs we get in

Nicely put!

 

[Orvan]

Am I a complete dreamer? …

YES

I don't think snow Summit will allow me to dig "coffined" gap jumps....

By this winter, you better be sending out those invites to your backyard jamboree!!

 

[Slugman]

and for the haters, stay home.. the shorter the line is the more runs we get in

I'm not a hater... I just see an oportunity being missed. I totaly understand the legal issue, but I really wish there was some way... :mumble:

Besides, gotta get full value for my season pass

 

[dhjill]

and for the haters, stay home.. the shorter the line is the more runs we get in

Jill, Heather's DH bike is a week away from being done....giddy up cowgirl!!

Amen to that! I think we all agree that BB could be better but hell, which mountain/trail couldn't be better? I'm sure Whistler locals even find stuff to bitch about from time to time. I have a blast at BB and it beats shuttling any day.

Awesome news about Heather's bike!!! I have a doctor's appointment in 4 weeks...this should be the one I get clearance to resume "normal" (as if what we do is normal...) activities. I'm counting the days to being able to ride off-road again... Being slow's gonna suck, tho.

 

[Orvan]

Besides, gotta get full value for my season pass

When your arms feel like vegetables by 3:30PM, you're getting your pass' worth!

I ain't callin nobody haters...... it's nice to see that year after year, attendance at BB increases. I love seeing people of all levels out there on bikes. The longs lines is something I can live with. Besides, it's the perfect time to recover before the next salvo of pumice fire road trails....
C-ya up there fools!

 

[Rabie]

Amen to that! I think we all agree that BB could be better but hell, which mountain/trail couldn't be better? I'm sure Whistler locals even find stuff to bitch about from time to time.

I don't think the issue is really just that it could be better, but more that it would be really easy to make it much better; and that the things that are wrong with it are really mind-bogglingly retarded. I mean they must have had the dirt and crew on Summit run to build jumps, but rather than build jumps, they build some ridiculous mounds that don't make any sense (and are *more* dangerous than properly made jumps). It's not a matter of making a whole new park --it's just that all it would take is better shaping of jumps and one or two simple berms to make trails that are now too lame to want to ride into something fun.

 

[Slugman]

OK… I’ve seen the light and converted – I love Big Bear!!! :heart: Although I still feel that there is an incredible opportunity that is not being utilized, I understand the issues and can accept it (grudgingly :mumble: ). The ‘off mountain’ trails have saved that place for me.

Thanks to everyone who helped adrenalinjunky18 and I find the trails… the handwritten note, trailhead descriptions (while suiting up) and especially the guided tour(s) were very helpful and made it one hell of a fun day. Considering we rode Westridge as the 2nd run of the day, it basically saved the day (and probably the season) for me.

Special thanks to everyone who stopped riding (or delayed starting) and helped with adrenalinjunky18’s brake issue…

And the instruction on how to take corners there helped me do some runs much faster and cleaner than I had done them before. Although I did add a dent to the helmet, another to the Boxxer (anyone got a spare set of lowers? ) and my hip (lovely deep purple… ). I’m still learning and will be practicing that a bit more!

Thanks again guys!

 

[Orvan]

Big Bear Sucks!!

 

[Rabie]

Big Bear Sucks!!

Dust is dangerous.

 

[downhillzeypher]

Orven, where do you get those fantastic avatars?