[Sandwich]

So besides bitching about demo9's eight bikes or how slack your head angle has to be in order to ensure intertube-shattering yaw, I'm trying to think of creative threads that don't suck and will help me stay pumped for the season...

So I was thinking...what makes a great trail? What do you prefer to ride on? What kind of elements could a trail incorporate to push things beyond the status quo?

We've seen the evolution (and death, maybe?) of rickety stunts and drops to flat. We've seen the huge rock huck come and go. Lately it seemed like all the rage was fast smooth "DHBMX" trails, but now it seems like those elements are being incorporated into real DH trails, things like berms and kickers without losing rocks and drops. What's next?

Last night I was thinking it might be interesting to build a trail where two paths were intertwined. Less "trail braiding" and more along the lines of two separate trails that paralleled and passed through each other. You could time turns and steep sections so that two riders starting at the same time wouldn't collide. It would make for a very visually interesting ride and might allow you to try and race your friends without having to follow them single file.

 

[IH8Rice]

smooth "dhbmx" trails, a la Diablo, are extremely boring to me. gimme steep,tight, loose, fast trails.

 

[Uncle Cliffy]

So besides bitching about demo9's eight bikes or how slack your head angle has to be in order to ensure intertube-shattering yaw, I'm trying to think of creative threads that don't suck and will help me stay pumped for the season...

So I was thinking...what makes a great trail? What do you prefer to ride on? What kind of elements could a trail incorporate to push things beyond the status quo?

We've seen the evolution (and death, maybe?) of rickety stunts and drops to flat. We've seen the huge rock huck come and go. Lately it seemed like all the rage was fast smooth "DHBMX" trails, but now it seems like those elements are being incorporated into real DH trails, things like berms and kickers without losing rocks and drops. What's next?

Last night I was thinking it might be interesting to build a trail where two paths were intertwined. Less "trail braiding" and more along the lines of two separate trails that paralleled and passed through each other. You could time turns and steep sections so that two riders starting at the same time wouldn't collide. It would make for a very visually interesting ride and might allow you to try and race your friends without having to follow them single file.

Kind of like the last segment of Kranked Revolve?

When they aren't on skinnies or hucking, that's some of the best footage...

Lately I've changed what I like in a trail as well. Berms and jumps are fine, and I still get my rocks off on a good Freight Train-Dirt Merchant-Aline run. But what I really like now is just "natural" trail. Kind of the fresh loamy track that isn't even a trail really. Steep and nasty, like a powder day. Before that, it was the rockiest stuff I could find. Now, not so much.

I think I enjoy all types of riding to a point, but that's what I want right now.

smooth "dhbmx" trails, a la Diablo, are extremely boring to me. gimme steep,tight, loose, fast trails.

Like this. ^^^

 

[bfrich]

smooth "dhbmx" trails, a la Diablo, are extremely boring to me. gimme steep,tight, loose, fast trails.

Platty's Skid Marks and DaBomb come to mind as trails that make me smile every time.

 

[big-ted]

smooth "dhbmx" trails, a la Diablo, are extremely boring to me. gimme steep,tight, loose, fast trails.

This.

I think it's funny how people go nuts for something they rarely get to ride. Back in the UK I would relish the opportunity to pin it through a gnarly rock garden. Now I tend to ride gnarly shake-your-teeth loose rocky trails on a nearly daily basis and instead really get a kick out of natural dirt, mud, roots and, as much as I hate the word, loam.

 

[jonKranked]

I like a mix of both.

My favorite thing is trails designed (albeit rocky & tech, or wide open) to maintain speed throughout, so you don't have to dump speed / hit the brakes. Then again, there's some AWESOME trails at Bromont that do a amazing job of blending both traits (rocky/tech, wide open/bermz)

 

[IH8Rice]

Platty's Skid Marks and DaBomb come to mind as trails that make me smile every time.

they both were on my mind when i wrote that.
DaBomb isnt the most technical trail in the world, but its super flowy at the beginning then becomes really loose,steep and fast towards the end. how can you not have a sh!t-eating grin on your face every time you ride it??? when hiking from the double to the triple side, its the first trail i hit

 

[sikocycles]

smooth "dhbmx" trails, a la Diablo, are extremely boring to me. gimme steep,tight, loose, fast trails.

 

[sikocycles]

Love Skid marks. Which trail is Dabomb?

 

[IH8Rice]

Love Skid marks. Which trail is Dabomb?

top portion was used for the ProGRT

 

[norbar]

It doesn't matter if the trail is dhbmx, gnarcore west evil rocks, loose dust or whatever. What matters is flow. The trail thas to be fluid - ie no very rapid tempo changes. Preferably wide with many line choices. Safe jumps, not kickers 1m after a turn with a rockgarden landing to a flat turn in a forest. If a trail has these features yet at the same time makes me push myself because of some ninja line options, steepness, super roots I love it. I really need to try Schladming but for now Maribor WC track is my perfect track.


Also anyone prefer a shorter well done over hardcore 5min runs? Shorter tracks allow me to do back to back runs all day and not feel that tired while if a trail is really heavy on me I have to do sections and riding all day is a bit of a problem.

 

[Inclag]

Would love to see mountains and course designers in the Northeast offer more high speed, wide/multiple line WC type trails. I appreciate tight and technical and understand we lack some of the vertical and geographic features that other areas have, but give me 10-20 foot wide sections in the open and in the woods that are flat out and I'm grinning ear to ear.

 

[norbar]

Would love to see mountains and course designers in the Northeast offer more high speed, wide/multiple line WC type trails. I appreciate tight and technical and understand we lack some of the vertical and geographic features that other areas have, but give me 10-20 foot wide sections in the open and in the woods that are flat out and I'm grinning ear to ear.

That we don't have high enough elevation is BS. Winterberg in Germany is not even on a mountain. It's a small hill. The Track is 1500m long(a bit under 1 mile) and the track is wide 90% of the time. I'm pretty sure it's(the hill) also smaller than some of the resorts you've got there.

 

[Raingauge]

Fast but technical with some jumps and berms but mostly natural feaures.

Trails that make you think only about riding. No multitasking allowed.

Canadian Open course, Lower Joyride or the DH trail at Sun Peaks.

http://www.pinkbike.com/video/161026/

http://www.pinkbike.com/video/161031/

 

[Tdiddy]

I would like to see a return to natural trails that make sense. jump trails are fun for a lap or two, but I could ride a fast technical trail 20 times in a row without getting bored as you have to be on your game. I see the evolution of trail building as being choosing natural features that increase the flow, not just forcing a trail into a location.

With more emphasis on choosing lines that allow for almost a complete lack of braking. Think along the lines of the Italy WC track, or Mont st. Anne. By far my favorite tracks to watch. Not difficult to get down, but incredibly difficult to get down at speed.

The more time spent with brakes off, the more fun and flow I'm having. If that involves sprinkling in a berm or two, so be it.

 

[Jester]

Would love to see mountains and course designers in the Northeast offer more high speed, wide/multiple line WC type trails. I appreciate tight and technical and understand we lack some of the vertical and geographic features that other areas have, but give me 10-20 foot wide sections in the open and in the woods that are flat out and I'm grinning ear to ear.

100% agreed
I also really enjoyed the old mount snow nationals and the old school killington courses where you were just pinned on the ski slopes.
At the same time I don't really like the way the highland trails have been going. It seems as though you can drive a car down every other trail now, because they are so smooth and wide.

 

[-BB-]

I like the mix.... Fast flowy trails where you are turning one direction or the other almost 99% of the time. Not super steep overall, so minimal brakes, but also a few super steep chutes thrown in. Step-downs without a gap (Step-down tables?) Single "booters" that you can launch into a natural transition (double) if you go far enough, but that act like a table if you come up short. BIG exposed rocks.... good berms... tons of flow.

 

[cableguy]

It doesn't matter if the trail is dhbmx, gnarcore west evil rocks, loose dust or whatever. What matters is flow.

Flow! Flow! Flow!

 

[Inclag]

That we don't have high enough elevation is BS. Winterberg in Germany is not even on a mountain. It's a small hill. The Track is 1500m long(a bit under 1 mile) and the track is wide 90% of the time. I'm pretty sure it's(the hill) also smaller than some of the resorts you've got there.

I think your misinterpreted what I was saying. There are a number of variables that limit track design. I'm fully aware that you don't have to massive amounts of vertical in order to have a world class trail.

 

[norbar]

I think your misinterpreted what I was saying. There are a number of variables that limit track design. I'm fully aware that you don't have to massive amounts of vertical in order to have a world class trail.

No I get you but the small vertical differance is often an excuse for making an overly tight and narrow course. It happens here too. As long as the landowners have no problems with it building a wide and fast dh course with nice features is possible on any hill which has at lest 800-1000m of straight line slope and has more than 150m elevation.

As said previously - winterberg is agood example. From around 1.00 in this vid you can see the dh course. The hill is super tiny.
http://video.mpora.com/watch/E3BY4ib1r/

 

[Deano]

roots and off camber sections at speed is fun for me, add in some medium sized rockgardens i can bounce through at a fast pace, and the trail is good for me.

as much as i hate rain, i always love riding a muddy track, cos it forces me to ride way looser and sketchy, but still make it through somehow

 

[Pelle]

I just want Schladming in my backyard. About, for us mortals, 5min of nonstop wideopen moto rollercoaster. If you make it down in one piece you are both completely exhausted and full of adrenaline, awesome track!

 

[cowman]

It doesn't matter if the trail is dhbmx, gnarcore west evil rocks, loose dust or whatever. What matters is flow. The trail thas to be fluid - ie no very rapid tempo changes. Preferably wide with many line choices. Safe jumps, not kickers 1m after a turn with a rockgarden landing to a flat turn in a forest. If a trail has these features yet at the same time makes me push myself because of some ninja line options, steepness, super roots I love it. I really need to try Schladming but for now Maribor WC track is my perfect track.


Also anyone prefer a shorter well done over hardcore 5min runs? Shorter tracks allow me to do back to back runs all day and not feel that tired while if a trail is really heavy on me I have to do sections and riding all day is a bit of a problem.

The highlighted part sounds like the best section of trail possible to me... A jump out of a corner, into a rockgarden, followed by a flat turn in the forest. Does it get better than that?

 

[ballr]

Most of the posts in this thread have served to somewhat restore my faith in the future of this sport. Thank you for reminding me there still exists those who relish a real dh track. Paved smooth dh trails are for beginners. And roadies who just got done with their local hillclimb.

 

[norbar]

The highlighted part sounds like the best section of trail possible to me... A jump out of a corner, into a rockgarden, followed by a flat turn in the forest. Does it get better than that?

Well it could be done nice and really bad. For the most part it's done bad. The main problem is doing a corner wide enough or far enough so that you can carry the speed from the landing without excessive braking. Haven't met a jump like that yet. All the cases I've seen mean muscle through the kicker, land, brake hard and try no to kill yourself on the turn.


btw. not to mention rockgarden not 2 little rocks = very random landing and high chances of crash no matter the skill. That works only on smaller jumps or when the rockgarden is flat rocks but that's not really a rockgarden.

 

[bullcrew]

One thats flowy and overlooks the pacific ocean and I can ride in december in shorts....

Flowy, booters, corners and a couple of guys to go try to one up on the next run...
And a ipod full of good tunes mellow and flowy tool....

 

[wood booger]

Been doing the optional blend/braided lines thing lately. The right line is the smoother, buffed out option with berms and a wider track. The left line is more natural and wild (not groomed or cut very wide).

In a 2 1/2 minute ridge line trail there are 5 splits that join back up. They never break more than 15 feet apart so you can see the rider on the other line. Makes it more interesting and fun when racing w/ 3-4 folks. You gotta pin the rough line wide open to get in front of the smooth line rider!

No wood allowed, just rock and dirt.

 

[Hesh To Steel]

smooth "dhbmx" trails, a la Diablo, are extremely boring to me. gimme steep,tight, loose, fast trails.

A DH trail is probably one of the only things in the world that can be "tight and loose" at the same time, haha.

What I like to ride really depends on mood. Diablo is good for that reason though, since there's a ton of natural stuff and a lot of machine-built smooth stuff. One thing diablo doesn't have are steep stuff like platty, whiteface, etc. I probably like each park the same, but diablo feels like a playground while platty feels like an actual mountain. I don't know if that makes sense, haha

 

[norbar]

I agree with the people who like the loose and steep stuff but why the hate for the dh bmx. It's fun, especially when you're tired. Don't do the same over and over on them. Play around. Go into berms to fast with your rear unweighted, whip or table the jumps. There is a lot of fun to be had on such trails.

 

[Sandwich]

for me, it's less that there's anything wrong with them, and more that I hate that places either A) have only those trails, or B) put all their emphasis on those trails and leave the other ones to rot.

That's one of the reasons I love riding at plattekill...there's no dirt to build those kinds of trails. I enjoy riding at highland, but I can't tolerate riding there often enough to buy a seasons pass and I live an hour and a half away. There's only 6 trails, and they've managed to turn each trail into a bermathon that barely resembles a DH trail and could be ridden on a hardtail faster than a DH bike. It's fun for a day, but after that I'm longing for roots and rocks and steep.

I guess I just see DHBMX trails as a bastardization of DH riding. Yeah, they're fun, once in a while, but it's just not DH riding....You don't need 8" of travel to ride a BMX course that happens to be on a slant.

 

[William42]

My favorite are ones that have pretty consistent speed, with lots of room for going faster. stopping/starting, or having to slow down really alot to catch corners isn't as much fun. I like doing steep plowy rock gardens, but I also like doing jumps. My favorite is if its steep enough to hit my ass on my rear tire

 

[demo 9]

Im the opposite of alot of you, i like the jumps, and i like them more with a ton of suspension. I can ride 6 hours at diablo and after shaking my wrists silly, i can go 3X as fast over jumps and drift dusty berms. That said, i started in bmx.

As for a trail i have never really ridden, i would like to again see a WC wide style track, but what i look for most, is hidden gaps, things to double, step ups/downs. One of my favorite trails at diablo is "bushwack" Its a pretty crappy trail as far as trails are concerned, but, it has a few trail options and more importantly, there is alot of stuff you can double and gap as you progress your riding. (it never gets old) I started just riding down it, than i started going log to rock, than log over rock than log over log over rock... ect. I like trails that have alot more to them than you see at first glance.

 

[norbar]

for me, it's less that there's anything wrong with them, and more that I hate that places either A) have only those trails, or B) put all their emphasis on those trails and leave the other ones to rot.

That's one of the reasons I love riding at plattekill...there's no dirt to build those kinds of trails. I enjoy riding at highland, but I can't tolerate riding there often enough to buy a seasons pass and I live an hour and a half away. There's only 6 trails, and they've managed to turn each trail into a bermathon that barely resembles a DH trail and could be ridden on a hardtail faster than a DH bike. It's fun for a day, but after that I'm longing for roots and rocks and steep.

I guess I just see DHBMX trails as a bastardization of DH riding. Yeah, they're fun, once in a while, but it's just not DH riding....You don't need 8" of travel to ride a BMX course that happens to be on a slant.

I agree. That trails are still pretty new in yurp. The only place with only jump trails is l2a which I still love because it's a full year snowboard resort, very cool vibe with cool people and awesome hot french chicks riding around town on longboards. Kinda hard to hate it

 

[joelsman]

I like a bit of everything, rough steep trails are my favorite and trails that you have to work to gap sections. I like jumps too.

 

[-BB-]

I like the mix.... Fast flowy trails where you are turning one direction or the other almost 99% of the time. Not super steep overall, so minimal brakes, but also a few super steep chutes thrown in. Step-downs without a gap (Step-down tables?) Single "booters" that you can launch into a natural transition (double) if you go far enough, but that act like a table if you come up short. BIG exposed rocks.... good berms... tons of flow.

 

[motomike]

I like them to carry speed the entire way from start to finish. Big jumps, cutty berms, large rocks...