Or induce them to shoot at you.) At close range it's knock down but not deadly and more often than not, just that sound of a shucking shotgun will freeze most people.
Or induce them to shoot at you.
If you're going to load the gun, don't use birdshot. Get a real non-lethal round if you must, or go with some 00 or #4 buck that will do the job of stopping an attacker. Guns aren't for posturing; they're for defending yourself when it comes down to that.
And with this guy, the fact that he's 70 might work in his favor. He's allowed the opportunity to defend property by law, and at 70, he couldn't be expected to use physical force to simultaneously restrain two young men...the gun was all he could do. He's got a shot at a defense with that under the Texas laws. It'll come down to what a jury thinks.
7400 block.....that's old man Shirley's place. You all want to stay away from there. That old man is crazier than a mad hatter and he has a shotgun, and a life sized Rex Grossman picture.i doubt that neighborhood will have much of a burglary problem after this
The two Horn suspected of committing burglary, Hernando Riascos Torres, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, were unemployed illegal immigrants from Colombia. Torres was deported to Colombia in 1999 after a 1994 cocaine-related conviction.
The episode touched off protests from civil rights activists who said the shooting was racially motivated and that Horn took the law into his own hands. Horn's supporters defended his actions, saying he was protecting himself and being a good neighbor to a homeowner who was out of town.
all i could think when i read the title of the article was, "only in texas."The operator repeatedly told Mr. Horn not to shoot, and the police had just arrived at the scene when Mr. Horn fired three blasts of 00 buckshot from his 12-gauge, striking the men in their backs.
So as a cop, you would prefer citizens mete out their own justice and just shoot everyone they see (most likely) committing a crime?sweet!
yes, i have no problem with citizens protecting their own land (or neighbors in their stead)So as a cop, you would prefer citizens mete out their own justice and just shoot everyone they see (most likely) committing a crime?
yes, i have no problem with citizens protecting their own land (or neighbors in their stead)
how retarded have our courts become when your home is no longer your sanctuary. In NC you can only shoot an intruder if it is apparent that the intruder is there to commit a VIOLENT crime against you. everyone knows that the average response time is in the 3 minute range and the court punishment is a joke so what is there to deter an intruder if they know they can just come in and take whatever they want w/out reprise? my family's security, both mental and physical, is worth more to me/them than the life of some piece of dirt that tries to break into my home regardless of intention.
and EOBF, it's not about the "good ole boys" killing "illegals", the part i highlighted in my previous post was just showing the fact that one of the suspects isn't exactly an upstanding citizen...well, not even a citizen at all but he definitely provides no benefit to society by continually committing larceny of air.
This is just my opinion... I don't mean act like Im speaking for everyone, but I don't think the "glee" you're referring to is in response to these individuals getting killed. I think it's all about, at it's most basic form, good defeating evil. Good guy beats bad guy, etc. Vigilante justice has always been the stuff of legend.I've got to say, the glee some of you seem to be taking in these men being gunned down is pretty disgusting. Clearly they're not the most law-abiding individuals, but they're still human beings and they still had families that never get to see them again.
Also, if you're interested in starting any kind of meaningful discussion, maybe don't link to a race-bating youtube video glorifying an "upstanding white man" shooting Latinos.
While racists might take this story with glee, no one in this thread is racist.I've got to say, the glee some of you seem to be taking in these men being gunned down is pretty disgusting. Clearly they're not the most law-abiding individuals, but they're still human beings and they still had families that never get to see them again.
Also, if you're interested in starting any kind of meaningful discussion, maybe don't link to a race-bating youtube video glorifying an "upstanding white man" shooting Latinos. (Which, as I just noticed, was originally posted on podblanc[dot]com, which is billed as "white nationalism's answer to Youtube.")
Maybe that's the problem right there. The only tool that you have to deter theft is something which is designed to do one thing which is to kill.This is a tough one for me. The stubborn individualist in me congratulates Horn for stopping the thieves, even with lethal force. My ethical side, which is strongly against the death penalty, obviously abhors killing to prevent a simple theft.
My cynical and practical side knew Horn would not be charged with a crime in Texas.
I wonder how I would react if I saw someone roll off on my bike and I had a gun in hand.
Do you know everyone posting in this tread and their feelings on race? I suspect not. I'm not casting aspersions on anyone in particular, I'm simply stating that making the very first post in this thread a link to a video titled "Upstanding White Man Blows Away Two Thieves" casts a racial tint on the entire discussion that follows, and makes me seriously question the motives of one that would post that link without reservation or disclaimer.While racists might take this story with glee, no one in this thread is racist.
These guys were scumbags, one deported for drug dealing. It would not matter much if they were white, black, Asian, or, in this case, Latino.
While it's fun to root for good triumphing over evil in the movies, this is real. Real people being shot to death. In the real world, we have these things called "shades of gray." Were these men misguided? Certainly. Stupid? Probably. Desperate? Well, obviously. Can you make a legitimate case for them being evil? Evil enough that their deaths should be celebrated?This is just my opinion... I don't mean act like Im speaking for everyone, but I don't think the "glee" you're referring to is in response to these individuals getting killed. I think it's all about, at it's most basic form, good defeating evil. Good guy beats bad guy, etc. Vigilante justice has always been the stuff of legend.
I didn't force an innocent conversation into a racial framework for no reason. Read at the first post.Ugh...everything has to have a racial tint on it nowdays...Ooooo look, it's whitey projecting power...Ooooo, it's the browns getting back at whitey with higher oil prices...
How 'bout this, that "cocaine-related conviction" slants like this to me:
Maybe he was from Medellin and was simply "embracing his heritage"...how bout them apples.
This is worrying to me, because as a cop, you shouldn't be looking to these people as dirt, but other human beings. As soon as you are able to recognize them as less than human, it is easier to do atrocious things like war.manimal said:everyone knows that the average response time is in the 3 minute range and the court punishment is a joke so what is there to deter an intruder if they know they can just come in and take whatever they want w/out reprise? my family's security, both mental and physical, is worth more to me/them than the life of some piece of dirt that tries to break into my home regardless of intention.
EXACTLY! There was no danger to this man, they were leaving. What he did was cold-blooded murder.Transcend said:Edit: He wasn't protecting anything. The suspects were leaving. He wasn't in any danger (neither were his neighbors as they were not home). He was specifically told not to shoot. He is a redneck who just wanted an excuse to shoot some non white folk.
The point of having courts is so people don't take it into their own hands. Nobody "deserves" anything just because the law is unjust. They are also PEOPLE, they don't need to have a reason to not be dead.BurlyShirley said:Surely not, but if the law empowers you to be the judge/jury/executioner and criminals are stupid/violent enough to test that system... then they deserve everything they get. No intelligence OR character...what good are they alive?
Good vs evil is for movies, there is no inherent good and evil, it is all shades of gray. Vigilante justice has always been the stuff of racism and prejudice as well.BurlyShirley said:I think it's all about, at it's most basic form, good defeating evil. Good guy beats bad guy, etc. Vigilante justice has always been the stuff of legend.
Race is still extremely relevant today, Martin Luther King Jr. wasn't some Racism Jesus. When he died, all of our racism sins did not go away, and there is a lot of prejudice, even with the Civil Rights Act.SecretSquirrel said:Ugh...everything has to have a racial tint on it nowdays...Ooooo look, it's whitey projecting power...Ooooo, it's the browns getting back at whitey with higher oil prices...
How 'bout this, that "cocaine-related conviction" slants like this to me:
Maybe he was from Medellin and was simply "embracing his heritage"...how bout them apples.
You were saying? Idiot.prana.ferox said:Do you know everyone posting
Alright, I apologize for calling you an idiot. I'll amend that to "This post makes you sound like an idiot."I'm not saying there's no racism...quite the opposite. Don't think you "know me"...
But when people just start going off and getting pissy, I feel it's my responsibility to bring some levity. Sorry if that was misconveyed.
The whole diatribe thing isn't going get anywhere.
I've got to say, the glee some of you seem to be taking in these men being gunned down is pretty disgusting. Clearly they're not the most law-abiding individuals, but they're still human beings and they still had families that never get to see them again.
Also, if you're interested in starting any kind of meaningful discussion, maybe don't link to a race-bating youtube video glorifying an "upstanding white man" shooting Latinos. (Which, as I just noticed, was originally posted on podblanc[dot]com, which is billed as "white nationalism's answer to Youtube.")
I thought my Medellin reference had merit....sigh...Alright, I apologize for calling you an idiot. I'll amend that to "This post makes you sound like an idiot."
And next time you want to bring "levity" to a discussion, you should try saying something actually amusing.
What bothers me is EVERYTHING has a racial tint. From Obama's fist bump to McCain's being old, white-bread, trophy wife middle america imaging.prana.ferox said:As for everything having a racial tint these day, take a moment to look at the world around you. As far as I'm concerned you anti-PC, "racism-is-dead-so-stop-talking-about-it" reactionaries are far more obnoxious and damaging than those people that play the race card at every opportunity.
As for the actual situation, I think this guy should be sitting in prison for a long time. He had no right to gun down two people that were evidently running away from him... pretty hard to argue he was in imminent danger.I posted the link because it was the 911 call. I don't remember it saying "upstanding white man shoots..." when I linked 7 months ago. Did you even watch(listen) or did you just dismiss it because of some tag? I don't even know nor really care what podblanc is.
Here is this one better: